Gifts & Fruits of CCR

[Mysty101]

CCR is a manifestation of the Gifts & Fruits of the Spirit.

It is not the only manifestation, so please do not think that I am saying you cannot be Charismatic (infused with the fire of the Spirit), if you do not belong to a Charismatic group.

The most common worship is a prayer meeting. There is usually much joy & enthusiastic praise, praising in vernacular and tongues, prayers for healing, some “words” and possibly other manifestations. “words” can be either prophecy (which is rare, and must be discerned) and simple prophecy which are just short utterances for the edificaion of the group.

There are also seminars with teachers & speakers, and healing services & Masses.

I have never spoken in tongue, but I do often praise in tongues, and pray in tongues for healing on a prayer team. We have a healing Mass once a month, and after Mass is ended, the Blessed Sacrament is exposed and teams pray over people for healing.

I have been given many simple worde , usually speaking of the love of God, or confirming that we must trsust in Him. There are 2 which I would like to share.

 

[Mysty101]

I had received this word a few years ago. I was sitting in a doctor’s crowded waiting room with about a gazillion kids jumping around and playing noisily. All of a sudden, it was very quiet—I could see everything, but did not hear the noise—it was like I was detached. “Be still and know that I love you.” It was like a gentle lightening bolt. I had always intellectually known that Jesus loves me, but at that moment I really began to feel it, especially In the gentle breeze.

(1 Kings 19
11

So He said, " Go forth and stand on the mountain before the LORD.’’ And behold, the LORD was passing by! And a great and strong wind was rending the mountains and breaking in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind. And after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake.

12

After the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a sound of a gentle blowing.)

Be still and know that I love you.

---

In the gentle breeze that kisses your cheek,
In the beautiful flowers that cheer your soul,
In the crises of your life
And in small problems,
I am with you.

You may feel it is coincidence or good fortune,
But I tell you, It is I Who walks beside you.

The encouraging word,
The uplifting smile,
The hug you needed when you were brought so low;
It was I Who loved you and helped you.

Know that it is I Who works through all things for you,
And know that you must allow Me to work through you for others.

It is I who gives you gifts according to your needs and abilities.

Be open to Me and I will show you your path.
It is not for you to choose your gifts, It is I who decides.
Be open to me and receive.
I know your needs and abilities and I will bless you.

I love you
I will take care of you
Trust Me.
Trust Me and receive.

Receive My Love;
Receive My Peace;
Receive My Hope;
Receive My Joy.

I give you tears and laughter to cleanse you of all that harms you.

I give you tears and laughter to release you from the fears that hold you down.

I give you tears and laughter to break down the walls that separate you from one another and from Me.

Receive, receive, receive,

Receive and be free to love unconditionally as I love you.

 

[Mysty101]

Tuesday, March 25, 2003

“Trust in Me,
You do not need to know how or why
Just trust in Me
And you will have My peace.”

Notice that it came as
“And you will have My peace.”
not “I will give you My peace”

Jesus will always give us His peace, but we must trust in Him to be able to receive it.

 

[springbreeze]

Dear Mysty

Thank you for posting this. It’s simply beautiful

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[Mysty101]

Thanks, Teresa, and to you too.

 

[Mysty101]

Tongues, and objection from 1 Cor 14 (new Advent Site)

13
5 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray to be able to interpret. 14 (For) if I pray in a tongue, my spirit 6 is at prayer but my mind is unproductive

[20-22] The Corinthians pride themselves on tongues as a sign of God’s favor, a means of direct communication with him (2.28). To challenge them to a more mature appraisal, Paul draws from scripture a less flattering explanation of what speaking in tongues may signify.

Paul is addressing the problems in Corinth, and this does not necessarily refer to CCR today

As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

From this passage do we conclude that women are not permitted to speak in Church?

Two other points.

There is a difference between speaking in tongues, and praying in tongues, as I said in the first post.

Also when we speak of public or private prayer, in official Church language, it does not mean silent or aloud. The Public prayer of the Church is the Mass, Liturgy of the Hours, and the Sacraments. A Praise tongue at a prayer meeting would be private prayer, even if it were uttered aloud.

 

[Absalom]

Hello, Mysty101,

I have a couple of questions for you about the gift of tongues. Please don’t take me as being argumentative. I am really interested in the charismatic movement. I am trying to learn as much as I can about it.

Since you say that there is a difference between “speaking in tongues” and “praying in tongues,” could you please define what these two things are? I have been over the passages in 1 Cor. and Romans and Acts from which Pentecostals and Charismatics get their notions of “praying” and “speaking in tongues,” and I am not very sure that these passages add up to what most people say they mean.

My main issue is with the passage in Romans where Paul says that we don’t know what to what to pray for, so the Spirit prays for us with “unutterable groans.” Now, I know some Pentecostals, and they tell me that this is where the notion of “praying in tongues” (which, as they practice it, is praying in a “heavenly,” “angelic,” and “non-human” language) comes from. My problem with coming to the same conclusion is that Paul says that the groans are “unutterable” and it is the Spirit that does it, not the person. Is this the only passage where people get this idea of “praying in tongues”? I have not been studying tongues for very long, but I can find no other place in the NT that might describe *what speaking/praying in tongues actually is *(except Acts, of course, but if I understand right, Pent/Charismatics say that the tongues at Pentecost were not the same thing that Paul talks about). Paul throws around phrases like “speaking in tongues” and “praying in a strange tongue” a lot in 1 Cor., but this passage from Romans is the only one that anybody has produced for me that might describe what actually happens when a person “speaks” or “prays” in a tongue.

To make a long story short, I’m not sure exactly how I feel about the current understanding of “speaking/praying in tongues.” Can you shed some light for me?

 

[Mysty101]

Hi,

Fiirst of all, I hope you can really be openminded, and leave all the heresay behind. Try to learn objectively, and then decide if this movement is for you. I do wish to stress again that no one can limit the Spirit—He can work in anyone, at any time, with or without any movement or worship style. We are all Charismatic by virtue of the Sacraments—we just manifest it differently.

Also let go of the need for Scriptural verification. Where are any of the current liturgical procedures listed in scripture—only the words of consecration are constant. Is Confirmation anything like the first Pentecost? If you wish to experience Charismatic style worship, please stick to authentic Catholic Charismatic groups, with legitimate leadersip, connected with a Parish or other Catholic organization. Many Catholics reject CCR because they have had bad experiences with in authentic Catholic or Protestant groups. Ask about discernment, especially if the gifts off prophecy or tongues seem to be manifested often. (simple words, such as the words I posted would not need strong discernment—it is only confirming what we already know.)

I am not saying that the Spirit does not work in Protestant groups, just that it is better if Catholics stick to Catholic groups, and only attend protestant or eccumenical services in the company of strong Catholic leadership, especially if there is teaching.

Here is athe link the the SI Conference (which is the parent organization of my group, which alsi is moderated by the Pastor of my Parish) website.
siconference.com/

We belong to a tridi (tri diocesean) conference, which belongs to the NSC (National Service Committee)

Here are some other links.
ccc.garg.com/

Sfspirit.com

International
iccrs.org/

National Service Committee
nsc-chariscenter.org/

I think it would be better if you explore some of the links–I think SF spirit has the most articles on tongues, and then ask more questions.

Remember CCR is an approved movement of the Church, supported by JP II, and very surprisingly I have heard that Pope Benedict is also a supporter.

another link
([BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT](catholic-jhb.org.za IN THE HOLY SPIRIT) by Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, OFM.
Fr. Cantalamessa has been the Papal preacher to Pope John Paul II’s Pontifical household since 1980.)

 

[Mysty101]

Hi,

Fiirst of all, I hope you can really be openminded, and leave all the heresay behind. Try to learn objectively, and then decide if this movement is for you. I do wish to stress again that no one can limit the Spirit—He can work in anyone, at any time, with or without any movement or worship style. We are all Charismatic by virtue of the Sacraments—we just manifest it differently.

Also let go of the need for Scriptural verification. Where are any of the current liturgical procedures listed in scripture—only the words of consecration are constant. Is Confirmation anything like the first Pentecost? If you wish to experience Charismatic style worship, please stick to authentic Catholic Charismatic groups, with legitimate leadersip, connected with a Parish or other Catholic organization. Many Catholics reject CCR because they have had bad experiences with inauthentic Catholic or Protestant groups. Ask about discernment, especially if the gifts of prophecy or tongues seem to be manifested often. (simple words, such as the words I posted would not need strong discernment—it is only confirming what we already know.)

I am not saying that the Spirit does not work in Protestant groups, just that it is better if Catholics stick to Catholic groups, and only attend protestant or eccumenical services in the company of strong Catholic leadership, especially if there is teaching.

Here is athe link the the SI Conference (which is the parent organization of my group. My group also is moderated by the Pastor of my Parish) website.
siconference.com/

We belong to a tridi (tri diocesean) conference, which belongs to the NSC (National Service Committee)

Here are some other links.
ccc.garg.com/

Sfspirit.com

International
iccrs.org/

National Service Committee
nsc-chariscenter.org/

I think it would be better if you explore some of the links–I think SF spirit has the most articles on tongues, and then ask more questions.

Remember CCR is an approved movement of the Church, supported by JP II, and very surprisingly I have heard that Pope Benedict is also a supporter.

another link
([BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT](catholic-jhb.org.za IN THE HOLY SPIRIT) by Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, OFM.
Fr. Cantalamessa has been the Papal preacher to Pope John Paul II’s Pontifical household since 1980.)

 

[dumspirospero]

Im sorry…approved or unapproved by the Church…I don’t buy into the CCR movement…It makes me severely uncomfortable and suspect of what eactly the real driving force behind this might be.

Mysty101:

CCR is a manifestation of the Gifts & Fruits of the Spirit.

It is not the only manifestation, so please do not think that I am saying you cannot be Charismatic (infused with the fire of the Spirit), if you do not belong to a Charismatic group.

The most common worship is a prayer meeting. There is usually much joy & enthusiastic praise, praising in vernacular and tongues, prayers for healing, some “words” and possibly other manifestations. “words” can be either prophecy (which is rare, and must be discerned) and simple prophecy which are just short utterances for the edificaion of the group.

There are also seminars with teachers & speakers, and healing services & Masses.

I have never spoken in tongue, but I do often praise in tongues, and pray in tongues for healing on a prayer team. We have a healing Mass once a month, and after Mass is ended, the Blessed Sacrament is exposed and teams pray over people for healing.

I have been given many simple worde , usually speaking of the love of God, or confirming that we must trsust in Him. There are 2 which I would like to share.

 

[Absalom]

Mysty101 -

Hey, don’t worry. I’ve got an open mind about it all . . . I just want to have all the facts about it and decide for myself what I think of it. I have been looking into the CCR from it’s own sources (particularly ccc.garg.com). I know that speaking in tongues may or may not operate in exactly the same way as it did at Pentecost, but I still have some issues about saying that “praying in tongues” is one thing based on what may or may not be a misinterpretation of a verse in Romans. I think what I really need to know is what Paul was really saying about tongues, whether it was in practice/operation after the apistolic age and before the Pentecostal movement started in the late 19th/early 20th century (and how it was practiced if it was), and how it is practiced in the current CCR. I would really like to attend a Life in the Spirit seminar, but I missed the last one that was here and I don’t know when there will be another one. At any rate, I certainly don’t think that the CCR is a bad thing. Even if I find out I don’t really believe that “tongues” as practiced today is what Paul did or intended, I certainly believe that anything that can inspire the kind of love and excitement about God that the charismatic movement does can’t be a bad thing.

BTW - I heard a Catholic pray in tongues for the first time two weekends ago at an engaged encounter. It was an interesting experience (he was praying over me and my fiance).

Thank you for the information. I will certainly check out the sites that I haven’t already looked at. And please keep me in your prayers.

 

[Mysty101]

I do admit that when I first became interested in a CCR group I was concerned about Paul’s warning against tongues, but my fears have been alleviated. In Paul’s missionary work amoung the Gentiles, there was a great need for the gift of Speaking in tongues. Today, even missionaries would not need it as much—just get a wireless laptop with a translator program (a little facetious, but you know what I mean) But certainly we do not need to speak in tongues in a prayer meeting where everyone speaks the same language.

We praise in tongues, and pray for healing.This is part of an article I had written after attending a conference in 2000.

Rev 4 8] “And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”

This scripture tells of the importance of Praise—we MUST praise God with joyful enthusiasm every day. This theme was emphasized over and over through the Revival conference by Msgr Walsh and Fr Tom Di Lorenzo. God does not need our praise, we need to praise Him–it is very uplifting to us. There were some manifestations of Holy Laughter, but not as many instances as I had remembered from other prayer meetings I had attended there. There was, however an abundance of Spiritual joy which was manifested in the wonderfully exuberant Praise Tongue.

This praise chant rose to such a crescendo that I was transported back to the market place along the Via Dellarosa, but I was there on the first Good Friday. I just stood in awe—that I was in the Church in Philly, but I could “see” and “hear” the sight and sounds of the Way of the Cross. Msgr Walsh told us we would experience the “glory”–that awareness of the presence of the Holy Spirit–as we lifted our physical and spiritual senses in praise, and we were drenched in the glory of the “Living Water”.

 

[Mysty101]

Here’s another piece–
from sfspirit.com/articles/9906/Article2.htm

The Gift of Tongues

In his book, Spiritual Gifts, Clark states that the term “gift of tongues” or “speaking in tongues” can describe at least two different realities: (1) a gift of prayer used by an individual as a way of praising God, (2) a prophetic utterance given to a group in a tongue (this requires interpretation for the group to understand the message). I will be restricting my investigation to the first category, where the gift of tongues is used as a way of vocally expressing praise to God in speech or in song. I will first examine some New Testament evidence for its use in the Church.

The first association we can make between the gift of tongues and liturgy appears in the book of Acts. In several places, we see a strong connection between receiving the Holy Spirit and the exercise of the gift of tongues in praise of God. In Acts 2:1-11, the Apostles received the promised outpouring of the Holy Spirit and “began to speak in different tongues as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim,” speaking about “the mighty acts of God.” In Acts 10:44-46, Peter preached to the Gentiles and “the Holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the word.” People knew that the Holy Spirit had come because “they could hear [the Gentiles] speaking in tongues and glorifying God.” The Gentiles were then immediately baptized. Finally in Acts 19:5-6, after Paul baptized a group of men and laid hands on them, “the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.”

In these three cases, the coming of the Holy Spirit is made manifest by the gift of tongues. Whether before the laying on of hands or afterwards, the gift was an experiential sign of receiving the Holy Spirit. According to theologians McDonnell and Montague, in their work on Christian Initiation, there is a pattern of manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts. When someone was initiated into the Church through baptism and laying on of hands, there was an expectation of experiencing a charismatic gift. The evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit was not necessarily one particular gift, such as tongues, but having some experience of the Holy Spirit.

From this we can draw some tentative conclusions about the New Testament Church. It is quite possible that receiving the gift of tongues was a frequent occurrence during Christian initiation. St. Paul devotes a significant portion of his letter to the Corinthians to explaining the correct use of the charismatic gifts, so they must have been fairly common in that community. He even says, “Now I should like all of you to speak in tongues…” (1 Cor 14:5), indicating that tongues could be quite common. Finally, according to St. Paul, the gift of tongues could be exercised either in speech or in song:
“If I pray in a tongue, my spirit is at prayer, but my mind is unproductive. So what is to be done? I will pray with the spirit, but I will also pray with the mind. I will sing praise with the spirit, but I will also sing praise with the mind. (1 Cor 14:14-15)”

​

 

[Mysty101]

Here’s another piece–

from sfspirit.com/articles/9906/Article2.htm

The Gift of Tongues

In his book, Spiritual Gifts, Clark states that the term “gift of tongues” or “speaking in tongues” can describe at least two different realities: (1) a gift of prayer used by an individual as a way of praising God, (2) a prophetic utterance given to a group in a tongue (this requires interpretation for the group to understand the message). I will be restricting my investigation to the first category, where the gift of tongues is used as a way of vocally expressing praise to God in speech or in song. I will first examine some New Testament evidence for its use in the Church.

The first association we can make between the gift of tongues and liturgy appears in the book of Acts. In several places, we see a strong connection between receiving the Holy Spirit and the exercise of the gift of tongues in praise of God. In Acts 2:1-11, the Apostles received the promised outpouring of the Holy Spirit and “began to speak in different tongues as the Spirit enabled them to proclaim,” speaking about “the mighty acts of God.” In Acts 10:44-46, Peter preached to the Gentiles and “the Holy Spirit fell upon all who were listening to the word.” People knew that the Holy Spirit had come because “they could hear [the Gentiles] speaking in tongues and glorifying God.” The Gentiles were then immediately baptized. Finally in Acts 19:5-6, after Paul baptized a group of men and laid hands on them, “the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied.”

In these three cases, the coming of the Holy Spirit is made manifest by the gift of tongues. Whether before the laying on of hands or afterwards, the gift was an experiential sign of receiving the Holy Spirit. According to theologians McDonnell and Montague, in their work on Christian Initiation, there is a pattern of manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts. When someone was initiated into the Church through baptism and laying on of hands, there was an expectation of experiencing a charismatic gift. The evidence ofreceiving the Holy Spirit was not necessarily one particular gift, such as tongues, but having some experience of the Holy Spirit.

From this we can draw some tentative conclusions about the New Testament Church. It is quite possible that receiving the gift of tongues was a frequent occurrence during Christian initiation. St. Paul devotes a significant portion of his letter to the Corinthians to explaining the correct use of the charismatic gifts, so they must have been fairly common in that community. He even says, “Now I should like all of you to speak in tongues…” (1 Cor 14:5), indicating that tongues could be quite common. Finally, according to St. Paul, the gift of tongues could be exercised either in speech or in song:

If I pray in a tongue, my spirit is at prayer, but my mind is unproductive. So what is to be done? I will pray with the spirit, but I will also pray with the mind. I will sing praise with the spirit, but I will also sing praise with the mind. (1 Cor 14:14-15)

​

 

[Absalom]

Thanks for the info. God bless.

 

[gnome]

Mysty101:

Paul is addressing the problems in Corinth, and this does not necessarily refer to CCR today

There is a difference between speaking in tongues, and praying in tongues, as I said in the first post.

Yes St. Paul teaching applies to the Church today. Pope JPII includes 1st Corinth is his sermon:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/1998/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_05081998_en.html

St. Paul’s words makes no difference between speaking in tongue and praying in tongue. Tongues in public require interpretation for “the common good of the Church”. He also said he rather speaks 5 words which people can understand than 1000 words that are meaningless…

 

[Mysty101]

gnome:

Yes St. Paul teaching applies to the Church today. Pope JPII includes 1st Corinth is his sermon:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/1998/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_05081998_en.html

St. Paul’s words makes no difference between speaking in tongue and praying in tongue. Tongues in public require interpretation for “the common good of the Church”. He also said he rather speaks 5 words which people can understand than 1000 words that are meaningless…

I am not going to get into this again. The Holy Father said nothing that you say about tongues—this is solely a private interpretation with which many Priests do not agree.

Do you also persist that women must be silent in Church? If you do perrsist in this or any private interpretation of Paul, please open another thread to discuss. This thread if for discussion of the gifts & fruits of CCR, an approved movement of the Church.

 

[gnome]

Mysty101:

Do you also persist that women must be silent in Church?

When you pull out one verse and conclude that St.Paul’s teaching
in 1st Corinth does not apply today, that’s private interpretation , not inline with the Church teaching.

Do you persist that Jesus came not to bring peace, but brother against brother?

 

[Mysty101]

gnome:

When you pull out one verse and conclude that St.Paul’s teaching in 1st Corinth does not apply today, that’s private interpretation , not inline with the Church teaching.

I agree. And this is why it is wrong for you to conclude that praying in tongues is wrong.

Do you persist that Jesus came not to bring peace, but brother against brother?

Do not misquote or misinterpret me, as you do scripture. I never said anything like that. I said that CCR is an approved movement of the Church–an approved OPTION–if you do not like it, do not worship in this manner. I do not slam or slander you because this is not for you—you are the disruptive one.

Now please, go in peace if you do not wish to discuss the Gifts and fruits of CCR.

In the fire of the Spirit,

 

[Anne_Carmel]

Please remember your charity. Serious lack of charity was the reason for the topic of CCR to take a little break before. Don’t let these threads get to the point where that would be a necessary step to take again.