"Gifts of the Holy Spirit"

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passioncrosslov

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This is one of my many questions. I appreciate all yall’s help. It seems out of all the apostles, only St. Paul, particularly in Corinthians, mentioned what we considered “charismatic gifts”. How come the other 12 apostles did not talk about it, for example, in the letters of John, James, Peter, etc…? Did not all of them receive these gifts at Pentecost? If it was so important, why did they not even mention it?

🙂
 
Can you say that we have all of their writings?
If it was not so important, why then did Jesus send the Holy Spirit to us?

He sent exactly what we needed … The Holy Spirit and all the gifts thereof.
 
The Corinthians asked Paul questions about spiritual gifts, and Paul was instructing them. Most likely the other apostles, orally taught on the subject.

Romans 12:6
We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.

Luke demonstrated the spiritual gifts in action in the book of Acts.
 
The Corinthians asked Paul questions about spiritual gifts, and Paul was instructing them. Most likely the other apostles, orally taught on the subject.

Romans 12:6
We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.

Luke demonstrated the spiritual gifts in action in the book of Acts.
Good answer! 😃
 
St. Paul is correcting the misbehavior or the Corinthians throughout most of this letter. Charisms, particularly toungues, were more highly prized by the Corinthians than works of charity, and were being used in a disorderly way. So, he was writing to tell them to get their priorities straight, and telling them that “If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease. . . So faith, hope, love remain , these three; but the greatest of these is love.” 1 Cor 13:8, 13
 
St. Paul is correcting the misbehavior or the Corinthians throughout most of this letter. Charisms, particularly toungues, were more highly prized by the Corinthians than works of charity, and were being used in a disorderly way. So, he was writing to tell them to get their priorities straight, and telling them that “If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease. . . So faith, hope, love remain , these three; but the greatest of these is love.” 1 Cor 13:8, 13
Thanks! This is also helpful. What does Paul mean by charity? Is it the charity that is widely known today as love of neighbor? Or does it mean something more?
 
Thanks! This is also helpful. What does Paul mean by charity? Is it the charity that is widely known today as love of neighbor? Or does it mean something more?
Yes! It is love of neighbor (13:1-2, 8) If you remember, the Corinthian community’s ill were reflected in its liturgy celebration. He scolds them for denying Christian social courtesies to the poor among the membership. (11:17-22)

He also goes on to explain how they are using the gifts, at times, in a disorderly way. (chapter 14)

Ryan 🙂
 
Yes! It is love of neighbor (13:1-2, 8) If you remember, the Corinthian community’s ill were reflected in its liturgy celebration. He scolds them for denying Christian social courtesies to the poor among the membership. (11:17-22)

He also goes on to explain how they are using the gifts, at times, in a disorderly way. (chapter 14)

Ryan 🙂
So, should one be charitable out of social courtesies or for the love of God? “Charity is the theological virtue by which we love God above all things for his own sake, and our neighbor as ourselves for the love of God” (CCC 1822).

Also, St. Paul mentions the gift of tongues but the catechism does not, along with some other gifts of the Spirit. If tongue is considered the greater of other gifts (according to Charismatics, as I have been informed), why has the CCC not include it? Am I obliged to go by what St. Paul says or with the CCC teaches?

“The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. They belong in their fullness to Christ, Son of David.109 They complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them. They make the faithful docile in readily obeying divine inspirations” (CCC 1831).

pcl 🙂
 
So, should one be charitable out of social courtesies or for the love of God? “Charity is the theological virtue by which we love God above all things for his own sake, and our neighbor as ourselves for the love of God” (CCC 1822).

Also, St. Paul mentions the gift of tongues but the catechism does not, along with some other gifts of the Spirit. If tongue is considered the greater of other gifts (according to Charismatics, as I have been informed), why has the CCC not include it? Am I obliged to go by what St. Paul says or with the CCC teaches?

“The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. They belong in their fullness to Christ, Son of David.109 They complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them. They make the faithful docile in readily obeying divine inspirations” (CCC 1831).

pcl 🙂
I agree entirely and couldn’t have said it better. 🙂
 
Which point to you agree on? I was asking questions. 🙂
I agree with your 1st and 3rd point.

My understanding of tongues is that it is speaking in another language by the power of the Holy Spirit, not some secret prayer language. In (1 Cor. 14:13-14) Paul says we should pray for interpretation. The Holy Spirit puts the words in the mouth(Acts 2:4), and the person speaking probably won’t know what their saying, because it’s in another language. I heard that an American guy was having a conversation with a South Korean guy in his village dialect, at a retreat I was at. (like 10 years ago)
I don’t know anymore of the story, but the point I’m try to make is that IMHO it’s something that rarely happens.

Now, I’ve been to a few Pentecostal services, and I have my doubts about the nature of what they do. They tried telling me everyone could speak in tongues. (secret prayer) I don’t buy it. I told them St. Paul says the Holy Spirit gives gifts according to His will, and you just can’t will it on yourself. I also asked, “where is the interpretation?” and why is everyone doing it instead of the two or three at most in the bible. If I’m not mistaken St. Paul says that tongues is the least of the gifts.

So, to answer your question, I don’t know about the second point. I know there are charismatic Masses somewhere around here, where the bishop sometimes says the Mass. And I couldn’t tell you if the CCC says anything about it. I do know there is an awful lot of garbage tongues going on in one non-Catholic church I went to. I don’t see why both couldn’t be true, as long as the Church approves.

Ryan 🙂
 
I agree with your 1st and 3rd point.

My understanding of tongues is that it is speaking in another language by the power of the Holy Spirit, not some secret prayer language. In (1 Cor. 14:13-14) Paul says we should pray for interpretation. The Holy Spirit puts the words in the mouth(Acts 2:4), and the person speaking probably won’t know what their saying, because it’s in another language. I heard that an American guy was having a conversation with a South Korean guy in his village dialect, at a retreat I was at. (like 10 years ago)
I don’t know anymore of the story, but the point I’m try to make is that IMHO it’s something that rarely happens.

Now, I’ve been to a few Pentecostal services, and I have my doubts about the nature of what they do. They tried telling me everyone could speak in tongues. (secret prayer) I don’t buy it. I told them St. Paul says the Holy Spirit gives gifts according to His will, and you just can’t will it on yourself. I also asked, “where is the interpretation?” and why is everyone doing it instead of the two or three at most in the bible. If I’m not mistaken St. Paul says that tongues is the least of the gifts.

So, to answer your question, I don’t know about the second point. I know there are charismatic Masses somewhere around here, where the bishop sometimes says the Mass. And I couldn’t tell you if the CCC says anything about it. I do know there is an awful lot of garbage tongues going on in one non-Catholic church I went to. I don’t see why both couldn’t be true, as long as the Church approves.

Ryan 🙂
Praying in tongues & speaking in tongues are two different gifts.
Speaking in tongues requires an interpreter, praying in tongues doesn’t necessarily need interpretation.

This might help you to better understand the gift of tongues.

ccc.garg.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&btitle=CE&mid=&ceid=43

ccc.garg.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&btitle=CE&mid=&ceid=45

God Bless!
 
Frankly, I don’t understand why people put so much importance on the charasmatic gifts thing. It seems to put a lot of attention on the individual, and what the HS does for them in worship. Rather than the attention on God and what we can offer to Him in worship.
 
Frankly, I don’t understand why people put so much importance on the charasmatic gifts thing. It seems to put a lot of attention on the individual, and what the HS does for them in worship. Rather than the attention on God and what we can offer to Him in worship.
The gifts are meant for both - the individual and the church…to build up both. I for one will not question God’s generosity or his motives, I will simply say, YES LORD!
 
This is one of my many questions. I appreciate all yall’s help. It seems out of all the apostles, only St. Paul, particularly in Corinthians, mentioned what we considered “charismatic gifts”. How come the other 12 apostles did not talk about it, for example, in the letters of John, James, Peter, etc…? Did not all of them receive these gifts at Pentecost? If it was so important, why did they not even mention it?

🙂
Hi Passioncrosslov,

I thought you might find this article interesting!

ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/ORiain/ORiain_003.html

God Bless!
 
The gifts are meant for both - the individual and the church…to build up both. I for one will not question God’s generosity or his motives, I will simply say, YES LORD!
That’s great, but I still don’t buy it. Christ came to give us eternal life, and show us the way through Him. I don’t think it’s priority #1 for us to be speaking in tongues and flappin’ around claiming the Holy Spirit made us do it. I think there are much more important, and useful, gifts of the Holy Spirit. Like love for one another, charity, compassion and concern for our fellow man. Those are the thing Jesus came to teach us. Not to speak in weird languages and demonstrate how much Holy Spirit we have in us.

Reminds me of Jesus chastising the pagans for babeling on in prayer before He gave us the Our Father.
 
That’s great, but I still don’t buy it. Christ came to give us eternal life, and show us the way through Him. I don’t think it’s priority #1 for us to be speaking in tongues and flappin’ around claiming the Holy Spirit made us do it. I think there are much more important, and useful, gifts of the Holy Spirit. Like love for one another, charity, compassion and concern for our fellow man. Those are the thing Jesus came to teach us. Not to speak in weird languages and demonstrate how much Holy Spirit we have in us.

Reminds me of Jesus chastising the pagans for babeling on in prayer before He gave us the Our Father.
I never said it was priority #1 - you did! I’ll keep you in my prayers (in tongues).
 
🙂 I don’t want to discount personal prayer in tongues outright, but something bothers me about it. Now, I’m no expert and I’m not trying to start a fight here, and I’m not trying to disprove it, so maybe someone could address some of my concerns. First, I like to say that I see the reference to communicating with God using tongues in (1 Cor 14:2 and 14:28) Just so you know I’m not denying it to be real.

In 1 Cor 14:1 it appears St. Paul is returning to his statement in 12:31 and frowning on tongues with no interpretation. I can’t help but look at verse 4 “Whoever speakes in a tongue builds himself up, but whoever prophesies builds up the church”, and hear him refering back to being inflated, seeking one’s own good, and pleasing ones self. (8:1) and (10:23-24) compaired to the related concept of “the beneficial” in (6:12) and (12:7)

In (14:6-9) he seems to be saying sound, in order to be useful, must be intelligible. And the anologies are to music (7-8) regular speech (10-11) and tongues (9 and 12) It seem to me that he’s frowning on tongues as a personal prayer language. (in and of itself)

When the charism of interpretation comes in it seems less like personal prayer, because it becomes intelligible, and has the same effect as prophecy. Why does he stress his mind and the role of reason? Why point out how confusing everything seems to be with no interpretation?

It just seems to me like much of what he is saying speaks against tongues as personal prayer. He equates tongues with foreign laguages in (14:10-12) and specifically challenges the Corinthians about seeing tongues as a sign of God favor, by being able to have direct communication in 14:20-22

He challenges them to a more mature appraisal by giving them a less flattering explanation of what speaking in tongues may signify. In verse21 Isaiah threatened the people that if they failed to listen to their prophets, the Lord would speak to them (in punishment) through the lips of Assyrian conquerors (Is 28:11-12)

Then Paul concludes from Isaiah that tongues are a sign not for those who believe, (it sure seems like it’s not a mark of Gods pleasure for those who listen to Him, but a mark of His displeasure with those in the community who are faithless, who have not heeded the message that He has sent through the prophets)

Then he concludes with specific directives regarding the exercise of the gifts in the assembly. Basically, it must contribute to the “building up” of the church. If any one speaks in a tongue, let it be two or at most three, and each in turn, and one should interpret. But if there is no interpreter, the person should keep silent in the church and speak to himself and to God. (14:27-28)

Let me close by saying, my only experience seeing tongues was at a Pentacostal church and it was chaos. I thought it was absolutely wrong, but like I said I’m no expert on these things. I would like to hear some response to these thoughts, because I don’t want to have a grudge against tongues as personal prayer to God. I’m just stuck with this idea in my head. Maybe because I perceived the abuse of tongues at the services I went to, and partially because I was afraid some might no be speaking in the Holy Spirit but some foul spirit.

Peace be with you,

Ryan 🙂
 
🙂
Let me close by saying, my only experience seeing tongues was at a Pentacostal church and it was chaos. I thought it was absolutely wrong, but like I said I’m no expert on these things. I would like to hear some response to these thoughts, because I don’t want to have a grudge against tongues as personal prayer to God. I’m just stuck with this idea in my head. Maybe because I perceived the abuse of tongues at the services I went to, and partially because I was afraid some might no be speaking in the Holy Spirit but some foul spirit.
Hi Ryan,

I can only speak for the prayer group(s) in our area and conferences that we have. Everything we do is under the direction of the prayer group leader(s) or Priest/Bishop. It is done in an orderly manner as our God is a God of order and we wouldn’t have it any other way. Nobody flops around and carries on. It bothers me when I hear people say that they experienced this because it leaves a bad impression of the Charismatics. Mind you, I am not passing judgement on anyone, I am only saying that our groups do not allow people to draw attention to themselves. We are gathered for a purpose, that purpose being, prayer in the Holy Spirit to build up the Church.

I have posted these links from the Catholic Charismatic Center. They are written by Bob Van Cleef. Perhaps they will help you to better understand the gifts.

ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/

ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/tongues_a.html

ccc.garg.com/ccc/articles/Van_Cleef/Gifts/tongues_b.html#grow

God Bless!
 
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