Gifts of the Spirit - new names? Is this okay?

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The Sadlier book my daughter’s class uses the following names for the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Some match the catechism, some don’t.

Does anyone know if these new names have been approved - I’d prefer they learn what is in the catechsim as opposed to possibly just ‘new words’ Sadlier decided to use. (Pardon my attitude - I’m not thrilled with the Sadlier series).

Wisdom
Understanding
Right Judgement
Courage
Knowledge
Reverence
Wonder and Awe
 
Wonder and awe…that’s the one my Confirmation class presented to me. I looked up in the Bible and saw it was ‘fear of the Lord’. Hmm, how is fear of the Lord the same as wonder and awe? I can understand wanting to pull children to the truth, but, c’mon, watering down the teaching of the Church? Just give us the truth, that’s all we youth want!
 
Eucharisted said:
Wonder and awe…that’s the one my Confirmation class presented to me. I looked up in the Bible and saw it was ‘fear of the Lord’. Hmm, how is fear of the Lord the same as wonder and awe? I can understand wanting to pull children to the truth, but, c’mon, watering down the teaching of the Church? Just give us the truth, that’s all we youth want!
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Awe is a “mixed emotion of reverence, respect, dread, and wonder” or “fear of God”. Just explain to the kids that the way they use ‘awesome’ is wrong. When something is awesome it should have you quaking in your shoes.
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) lists the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit as: wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord.

Personally, I would never intentionally change the wording found in the CCC! However, the words you are concerned about… SEEM to be only variations on those listed in the CCC. In other words, they have the same meaning.

But I know what you’re saying. It can be SO confusing, when authors or teachers, etc… take it upon themselves to find “better” words. lol. God bless.
 
Just to tack on to my post…since the Sadlier book is one approved by the USCCB, does that mean this new ‘terminology’ is okay? **That’s really what I’m trying to find out. **

And, as a small vent…little by little, I fear we are losing our ‘Catholic vocabulary’ and part of the universality of the Church. It’s amazing to me that in a room one Catholic can say “Hail Holy Queen” to start a prayer and EVERYONE would be able to join in. It’s really beautiful when you think about it.

I hear the argument ‘if it means the same what difference does it make’? If that’s the case, one day we’ll all be saying our own version of the Lord’s Prayer at Mass as long as what we each personally say ‘means the same’. Okay - that’s going a little far, (possibly), but do you get my point? Sorry to somewhat derail my own thread here for a minute! 😃
 
catechizeme said:
It’s amazing to me that in a room one Catholic can say “Hail Holy Queen” to start a prayer and EVERYONE would be able to join in. It’s really beautiful when you think about it.
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Yes, I know the point you’re making. Just the other day, at daily Mass… Father had us recite the “St. Micheal the Archangel” prayer.

There are SO many variations on that one!

When it came to the part “cast into hell satan”… I said “CAST” and everyone else in the room (using a holy card, provided) said “THRUST”. I was like… :blushing: lol.

But it’s my understanding that the USCCB has to clear things with Rome… so I think you’re “good to go”!. Hope someone more knowledgable than I, will respond. God bless.
 
catechizeme said:
And, as a small vent…little by little, I fear we are losing our ‘Catholic vocabulary’ and part of the universality of the Church. It’s amazing to me that in a room one Catholic can say “Hail Holy Queen” to start a prayer and EVERYONE would be able to join in. It’s really beautiful when you think about it.

I hear the argument ‘if it means the same what difference does it make’? If that’s the case, one day we’ll all be saying our own version of the Lord’s Prayer at Mass as long as what we each personally say ‘means the same’. Okay - that’s going a little far, (possibly), but do you get my point? Sorry to somewhat derail my own thread here for a minute! 😃
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I share your instinct on this. As a lay catechist, I am always opposed to dumbing down the Faith just because we think it will be more “relevant” to those we are teaching. The proper thing is to teach them the right way, and use things like this as only helpful aides or examples. Anything else is just pure ignorance, condescension and/or laziness. The Saints of old were not nourished with pablum and thin gruel.
 
catechizeme said:
Just to tack on to my post…since the Sadlier book is one approved by the USCCB, does that mean this new ‘terminology’ is okay? **That’s really what I’m trying to find out. **

And, as a small vent…little by little, I fear we are losing our ‘Catholic vocabulary’ and part of the universality of the Church. It’s amazing to me that in a room one Catholic can say “Hail Holy Queen” to start a prayer and EVERYONE would be able to join in. It’s really beautiful when you think about it.

I hear the argument ‘if it means the same what difference does it make’? If that’s the case, one day we’ll all be saying our own version of the Lord’s Prayer at Mass as long as what we each personally say ‘means the same’. Okay - that’s going a little far, (possibly), but do you get my point? Sorry to somewhat derail my own thread here for a minute! 😃
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This is one of those times when the imprimatur and the nihl obstat would have been useful. I am curious as to who approved it and why they decided to change the terms. I thought that the CCC was supposed to be standard.

We need to not water down things for the kids. They need to learn the faith as we learned it. The problem is that there are those who seem to want to sanitize things and anesthetize them. That is not a good way to hand down the Faith, let alone, foster an authentic Sensus Fidei, to the next generation.
 
catechizeme said:
Does anyone know if these new names have been approved - I’d prefer they learn what is in the catechsim as opposed to possibly just ‘new words’ Sadlier decided to use. (Pardon my attitude - I’m not thrilled with the Sadlier series).

Wisdom
Understanding
Right Judgement
Courage
Knowledge
Reverence
Wonder and Awe
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I know exactly where these names came from: from the current English translation of the Rite of Confirmation. During the general laying on of the hands, the Bishop prays:
All-powerful God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
by water and the Holy Spirit
you freed your sons and daughters from sin
and gave them new life.
Send your Holy Spirit upon them
to be their Helper and Guide.
Give them the spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the spirit of right judgment and courage,
the spirit of knowledge and reverence.
Fill them with the spirit of wonder and awe in your presence.
We ask this through Christ our Lord. (Rite of Confirmation, 1975, #25, emphasis added)
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So yes, the text is approved by the Bishops’ Conferences and confirmed by the Apostolic See even.
 
Of course, this fad will probably go when a new English translation of the Rite of Confirmation is made available, following the Instruction Liturgiam authenticam, in the coming years. But only God knows when they’ll get to work on the Rite of Confirmation. Apparantly not soon, since USCCB republished the Rite of Confirmation not very long ago. 😦
 
the new words are what is generally used in most catechetical texts on the sacraments, but the last should read wonder and awe of the Lord or it is incomplete. It is easier to explain wonder and awe than it is to explain fear, but meanings of all these words are so culturally charged and changed from their biblical meanings that extensive catechesis is necessary.

I’m old so we go with fear of the Lord, and discuss the real meaning of fear, and yes, wonder and awe come into it. But not fear as in “no fear” on the windshield of your car, and not awe as in “that was awesome let’s do it again” and not wonder as in “I wonder what that was all about.”

As usual with RE textbooks, the use the catechist makes of the resource is of much more importance that the book itself and its language. and there is a knee-jerk reaction to “fear” that is hard to overcome, especially when parents and sponsors transfer their own emotional reaction to the candidates.

Yes the Sadlier texts published since 1997 have the approval of the US Bishops and are in conformity with the CCC.
 
Argh!

Sit your daughter, and the catechist, down with a dictionary. “Fortitude” is NOT the same thing as “courage.” Same with all the other words. I wish I could do that with the ICEL!!!

Those who translated the Catechism were concerned with getting it right, not with making it relevant.

:mad: I could almost become a rad-trad! If we can’t translate the Latin accurately, then let’s use the Latin!

Relevant! ptui!

Praying for those who think the Church needs to be relevant to anything but Christ crucified,

Ruthie
 
Ruthie said:
Argh!

:mad: I could almost become a rad-trad! If we can’t translate the Latin accurately, then let’s use the Latin!

Ruthie
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Am I to understand that God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and the Catholic Tradition in Latin?

…hmmm…interesting, I wonder why the original texts of the New Testament were not originally written in Latin, but rather Greek, Aramaic, etc…
 
Am I to understand that God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and the Catholic Tradition in Latin?

…hmmm…interesting, I wonder why the original texts of the New Testament were not originally written in Latin, but rather Greek, Aramaic, etc…
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The lanugage of the Church is Latin. The Church’s official catechism and scriptures are in Latin. Hence, the last poster’s comment.
 
I think if I was granted one wish it would be that “Faith and Life” and the CCC would be the only “catechetical textbooks” allowed for K-8.

I have yet to see any other series hold a candle to F&L and that is as faithful to the CCC.

It seems like such a simple thing to do…stay in compliance with the wording of the Catechsim. Geesh, why is that so hard for publishers to do. Why is it so hard for our Bishops to enforce?

I guess my age is showing. 🙂
 
I can understand making a change in “fear of the Lord.” When that one came up in RCIA one of the candidates asked about it. He has a graduate degree so he’s not ignorant, but he was honestly confused and asked “why is it a gift to be afraid of God?”
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
I can understand making a change in “fear of the Lord.” When that one came up in RCIA one of the candidates asked about it. He has a graduate degree so he’s not ignorant, but he was honestly confused and asked “why is it a gift to be afraid of God?”
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Then catechize as to what “fear” means. The OED has this as the 6th definition for the verb “fear”: To regard with reverence and awe; to revere. Now only with God as obj.; formerly in wider sense.

The Modern Catholic Dictionary (by Fr. John Hardon) defines the “gift of fear” in this way:Infused gift of the Holy Spirit that confirms the virtue of hope and inspires a person with profound respect for the majesty of God. Its corresponding effects are protection from sin through dread of offending the Lord, and a strong confidence in the power of his help.

The fear of the Lord is not servile but filial. It is based on the selfless love of God, whom it shrinks from offending. Whereas in servile fear the evil dreaded is punishment; in filial fear it is the fear of doing anything contrary to the will of God.

The gift of fear comprises three principal elements: a vivid sense of God’s greatness, a lively sorrow for the least faults committed, and a vigilant care in avoiding occasions of sin. It is expressed in prayer of the Psalmist, “My whole being trembles before you, your ruling fills me with fear” (Psalm 119:120). One of its salutary effects is to induce a spirit of deep humility in dealing with others, especially with inferiors, since it makes a person aware that he or she stands constantly before the judgment of God.
Rather than avoid words that we don’t understand, and risk replacing them with words that don’t mean the same thing, we should try to understand the words better.
 
SuscipeMeDomine said:
I can understand making a change in “fear of the Lord.” When that one came up in RCIA one of the candidates asked about it. He has a graduate degree so he’s not ignorant, but he was honestly confused and asked “why is it a gift to be afraid of God?”
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Then say what my mom said to me “here is a dictionary, let’s look up that word you do not know”.

In the world today, all a graduate degree means is that someone paid tuition and showed up for the tests, they answered quizzes correctly and wrote a couple of papers. They show the person earned a degree, not that they gained an education.
 
puzzleannie said:
…extensive catechesis is necessary…I’m old, so we go with fear of the Lord, and **discuss **the real meaning of fear, …
As usual with RE textbooks, the use the catechist makes of the resource is of much more importance that the book itself and its language.
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Well said.
japhy said:
Then catechize as to what “fear” means.
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Exactly.

Like, we can talk to young people as if they’re capable of listening, thinking, growing. If we don’t approach them that way, we’re cheating them. And, believe it or not, they appreciate it, and they respond to it.

In fact, I can get lots of mileage out of that kind of thing with eighth graders: “Fear? That’s an unexpected word, right? What the heck is that all about?” That would be ten minutes well spent.

ASD​

Faith and Life
 
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