Girl Altar Servers

[wisdomseeker]

The lack of knowledge that you and many other Catholics have just baffles me. You, along with a great many just like you, really need to go back read, study, pray, etc., because you are arguing a point with fallacious and ridiculous garbage.

1. Vatican II has nothing to do with the modern crisis in The Church…Vatican II is the scapegoat.
2. Vatican II did not allow, mandate, or do anything else in regards to females being altar servers…IT WAS AN ABUSE committed on wide scale and instead of The Vatican putting their foot down and eradicating this problem, they ignored it and then eventually just allowed it. They were indifferent and that is just wrong…kind of like the indifference to the numerous sex abuse cases…You see, those in positions of power in the Church have been and will continue to be wrong about certain things…they are only human afterall
3. While talking about Vatican II…please cite the words that allow women to serve on the Altar, the necessity of removing the High Altar and replacing it with a table, the removal of communion rails, CITH, removal of statues and icons, the playing of abominable music while removing Latin Hyms and Gregorian Chant, the complete absence of Latin from the liturgy, even though it strongly supported a great deal of Latin to remain, etc…I could go on and on.
4. You know the real problem is not with Traditionalists thinking we are the magisterium…we just fail to understand how The Church was ransacked by a bunch of modernists without any cause and real ability…“The Spirit of Vatican II”…If I hear that one more time as an excuse as to why they are destroying The Church, by God I think the Church Militant side in me will come out. I am tired of it. No, we are not people who ignore the teachings of The Church…we want to restore them and maintain them…unlike those rogue Bishops and priests, with the support of uninformed and poorly catchized laypeople…which you may or may not fall into that category, but they are certainly out there…

Now I hear “JP II” believed this or did that or supported this…thats fine…I love that man dearly…He became Pope the year I was born and was my Holy Father for the majority of my life…but the man was still a man capable of mistakes…which everybody is…but then we also have St. Pius X…a canonized Saint…not someone going through the process…an actual Saint, we know for a fact he is in Heaven right now…we have St. Pius X’s many teachings and encyclicals condemning all of the abominable activities going on in THe Church today…but you all seem to have a short memory and choose to ignore what he had to say.

very well said. while they condemn the Traditionalists, they are following the goats who has one thing in mind, to destroy the Tradition of the Church. by destroying the Tradition of the Church, there will be no more CC. Like mother Angelica says: it is all part of a plan to destroy the Church.

here: sensustraditionis.org/multimedia.html beautifull teachings.

 

[dominicandinah]

The lack of knowledge that you and many other Catholics have just baffles me. You, along with a great many just like you, really need to go back read, study, pray, etc., because you are arguing a point with fallacious and ridiculous garbage.

1. Vatican II has nothing to do with the modern crisis in The Church…Vatican II is the scapegoat.
2. Vatican II did not allow, mandate, or do anything else in regards to females being altar servers…IT WAS AN ABUSE committed on wide scale and instead of The Vatican putting their foot down and eradicating this problem, they ignored it and then eventually just allowed it. They were indifferent and that is just wrong…kind of like the indifference to the numerous sex abuse cases…You see, those in positions of power in the Church have been and will continue to be wrong about certain things…they are only human afterall
3. While talking about Vatican II…please cite the words that allow women to serve on the Altar, the necessity of removing the High Altar and replacing it with a table, the removal of communion rails, CITH, removal of statues and icons, the playing of abominable music while removing Latin Hyms and Gregorian Chant, the complete absence of Latin from the liturgy, even though it strongly supported a great deal of Latin to remain, etc…I could go on and on.
4. You know the real problem is not with Traditionalists thinking we are the magisterium…we just fail to understand how The Church was ransacked by a bunch of modernists without any cause and real ability…“The Spirit of Vatican II”…If I hear that one more time as an excuse as to why they are destroying The Church, by God I think the Church Militant side in me will come out. I am tired of it. No, we are not people who ignore the teachings of The Church…we want to restore them and maintain them…unlike those rogue Bishops and priests, with the support of uninformed and poorly catchized laypeople…which you may or may not fall into that category, but they are certainly out there…

Now I hear “JP II” believed this or did that or supported this…thats fine…I love that man dearly…He became Pope the year I was born and was my Holy Father for the majority of my life…but the man was still a man capable of mistakes…which everybody is…but then we also have St. Pius X…a canonized Saint…not someone going through the process…an actual Saint, we know for a fact he is in Heaven right now…we have St. Pius X’s many teachings and encyclicals condemning all of the abominable activities going on in THe Church today…but you all seem to have a short memory and choose to ignore what he had to say.

Wow! I don’t recall mentioning anyone specifically and I DON’T appreciate you commenting that I have a lack of knowledge!!!

 

[dominicandinah]

The lack of knowledge that you and many other Catholics have just baffles me. You, along with a great many just like you, really need to go back read, study, pray, etc., because you are arguing a point with fallacious and ridiculous garbage.

1. Vatican II has nothing to do with the modern crisis in The Church…Vatican II is the scapegoat.
2. Vatican II did not allow, mandate, or do anything else in regards to females being altar servers…IT WAS AN ABUSE committed on wide scale and instead of The Vatican putting their foot down and eradicating this problem, they ignored it and then eventually just allowed it. They were indifferent and that is just wrong…kind of like the indifference to the numerous sex abuse cases…You see, those in positions of power in the Church have been and will continue to be wrong about certain things…they are only human afterall
3. While talking about Vatican II…please cite the words that allow women to serve on the Altar, the necessity of removing the High Altar and replacing it with a table, the removal of communion rails, CITH, removal of statues and icons, the playing of abominable music while removing Latin Hyms and Gregorian Chant, the complete absence of Latin from the liturgy, even though it strongly supported a great deal of Latin to remain, etc…I could go on and on.
4. You know the real problem is not with Traditionalists thinking we are the magisterium…we just fail to understand how The Church was ransacked by a bunch of modernists without any cause and real ability…“The Spirit of Vatican II”…If I hear that one more time as an excuse as to why they are destroying The Church, by God I think the Church Militant side in me will come out. I am tired of it. No, we are not people who ignore the teachings of The Church…we want to restore them and maintain them…unlike those rogue Bishops and priests, with the support of uninformed and poorly catchized laypeople…which you may or may not fall into that category, but they are certainly out there…

Now I hear “JP II” believed this or did that or supported this…thats fine…I love that man dearly…He became Pope the year I was born and was my Holy Father for the majority of my life…but the man was still a man capable of mistakes…which everybody is…but then we also have St. Pius X…a canonized Saint…not someone going through the process…an actual Saint, we know for a fact he is in Heaven right now…we have St. Pius X’s many teachings and encyclicals condemning all of the abominable activities going on in THe Church today…but you all seem to have a short memory and choose to ignore what he had to say.

I don’t recall mentioning you or anyone specifically and I DON’T appreciate you stating I have a lack of knowledge!!!

 

[michaeldaniels]

and also…why have some of the priest become so lazy as to allow this to happen…If I ever become a priest, which I am discerning, there won’t be EMHC in my parish…I will offer both the OF and the EF, and there won’t be any women serving on or around the altar…and I won’t be so lazy that I sit and watch as people who do not even belong on the altar, nonchalantly handle the Precious Body and Blood of Our Lord

the bad thing about give permission to something that was not there in the past, it is that there is no stoping now in what women can do in the Church. we see priests washing women’s feet. no one cant stop this. in my parish, women is the one distributing the Challices and the bread to the Eucharist ministers while the priests sit down. the women is the one consuming the remaing Wine after it is all done. it is the women who is taking the remain Host to the Tabernacle. who is going to tell the priest this is wrong? no one. since it is the priest who have the authority to decide what to do in his Parish.

 

[michaeldaniels]

How is it rude if what I have stated is the truth? You are attempting to defend and argue a point in which you obviously have no experience…nor have you taken the time to learn the facts about which you are arguing…therefore, how can you make an educated argument pro or con on a subject which you know nothing about…you are only going off your feelings and emotions which coincidently is how all liberals (not saying you are one by any means) fight the issues…they never have one ounce of evidence, historical fact, precedent, or anything to support their points of view…however they word their arguments as to make anyone opposed to their ideas look like terrible, mean, bigots…For instance, I do not support women serving on the altar, therefore I am a sexists pig in the eyes of most…but the irony about the whole situation is that my point of view and belief is backed up by The Bible, tradition, writings of saints and popes, rubrics, etc…so my point of view and beliefs about this topic are no different than my views on abortion…my views are 100% authentically Catholic. On the otherhand, the detractors, which you are a part of, in the necessity telling yourself you are Christ like and charitable, you argue in favor of these abuses, because it just seems discriminatory to prevent girls from serving…however, you argue without the backing of tradition, scripture, saints, and previous popes…and by arguing that way, you, the last two popes,and a great deal of clergy and lay people are practicing MORAL RELATIVISM when they allow these things to go on and support them…I am not saying you all knowingly engage in this…but you are doing it whether or not your realize it. Moral relativism is a cancer…just like women serving on the altar

I don’t recall mentioning you or anyone specifically and I DON’T appreciate you stating I have a lack of knowledge!!!

 

[dominicandinah]

How is it rude if what I have stated is the truth? You are attempting to defend and argue a point in which you obviously have no experience…nor have you taken the time to learn the facts about which you are arguing…therefore, how can you make an educated argument pro or con on a subject which you know nothing about…you are only going off your feelings and emotions which coincidently is how all liberals (not saying you are one by any means) fight the issues…they never have one ounce of evidence, historical fact, precedent, or anything to support their points of view…however they word their arguments as to make anyone opposed to their ideas look like terrible, mean, bigots…For instance, I do not support women serving on the altar, therefore I am a sexists pig in the eyes of most…but the irony about the whole situation is that my point of view and belief is backed up by The Bible, tradition, writings of saints and popes, rubrics, etc…so my point of view and beliefs about this topic are no different than my views on abortion…my views are 100% authentically Catholic. On the otherhand, the detractors, which you are a part of, in the necessity telling yourself you are Christ like and charitable, you argue in favor of these abuses, because it just seems discriminatory to prevent girls from serving…however, you argue without the backing of tradition, scripture, saints, and previous popes…and by arguing that way, you, the last two popes,and a great deal of clergy and lay people are practicing MORAL RELATIVISM when they allow these things to go on and support them…I am not saying you all knowingly engage in this…but you are doing it whether or not your realize it. Moral relativism is a cancer…just like women serving on the altar

Based on your inflated posts, I can see that humility is not a strong point with you…or, in all charity, one that you display on here!!

 

[Janet1983]

I will try not to repeat what the last several posters have written too much. Lectors are an instituted ministry within the Church open to males only. However, in the absence of a lector, or for other reasons, a regular layperson may be used to carry out the functions normally reserved to the lector. This does not make them a lector, even though it is a very common error to refer to them as such. You and I should not perpetuate the error.

Well I didn’t know any better until I edited the post (I put some in-depth research into the subject and found out).
You were right and I was wrong, but that is why I clarified. It’s an informal way of describing a reader in German churches and I didn’t know that.

 

[wisdomseeker]

and also…why have some of the priest become so lazy as to allow this to happen…If I ever become a priest, which I am discerning, there won’t be EMHC in my parish…I will offer both the OF and the EF, and there won’t be any women serving on or around the altar…and I won’t be so lazy that I sit and watch as people who do not even belong on the altar, nonchalantly handle the Precious Body and Blood of Our Lord

May our Lord keep you safe and holy in your journey. God bless.

 

[Yellow_Belle]

Moral relativism is a cancer…just like women serving on the altar

Now that is just plain offensive.

I do hope that at least part of your discernment will involve looking at how Jesus treated women. I’m fairly sure he never described them as a malignant growth or tumour no matter what they were doing or where they were doing it.

 

[Javl]

yes, but the Magisterium has not been doing a very good job lately and that is why we are in such a mess.

I have to agree with you there. I guess mayby at the last convocation of the Magisterium no one listened to the Holy Spirit.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem

 

[wisdomseeker]

I have to agree with you there. I guess mayby at the last convocation of the Magisterium no one listened to the Holy Spirit.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem

or they did something they werent supposed to.

:byzsoc:

 

[Bluegoat]

2+2 =/= 5

Earlier popes and hundreds of years of tradition have told us girls are not to be altar servers. Yet now they are. We as Catholics must go with tradition.

To a non-Catholic Christian, this is a funny statement. I’m sure it would be an eye-opener for the many Protestants and Orthodox for whom the modern form of the papacy is a stumbling block to Catholicism.

 

[franklinf]

To a non-Catholic Christian, this is a funny statement. I’m sure it would be an eye-opener for the many Protestants and Orthodox for whom the modern form of the papacy is a stumbling block to Catholicism.

What do you mean?

 

[At_Trent]

2+2 =/= 5

Earlier popes and hundreds of years of tradition have told us girls are not to be altar servers. Yet now they are. We as Catholics must go with tradition.

You bet

Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to that arrogant oligarchy who merely happen to be walking around.
G.K. Chesterton

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

How is it rude if what I have stated is the truth? You are attempting to defend and argue a point in which you obviously have no experience…nor have you taken the time to learn the facts about which you are arguing…therefore, how can you make an educated argument pro or con on a subject which you know nothing about…you are only going off your feelings and emotions which coincidently is how all liberals (not saying you are one by any means) fight the issues…they never have one ounce of evidence, historical fact, precedent, or anything to support their points of view…however they word their arguments as to make anyone opposed to their ideas look like terrible, mean, bigots…For instance, I do not support women serving on the altar, therefore I am a sexists pig in the eyes of most…but the irony about the whole situation is that my point of view and belief is backed up by The Bible, tradition, writings of saints and popes, rubrics, etc…so my point of view and beliefs about this topic are no different than my views on abortion…my views are 100% authentically Catholic. On the otherhand, the detractors, which you are a part of, in the necessity telling yourself you are Christ like and charitable, you argue in favor of these abuses, because it just seems discriminatory to prevent girls from serving…however, you argue without the backing of tradition, scripture, saints, and previous popes…and by arguing that way, you, the last two popes,and a great deal of clergy and lay people are practicing MORAL RELATIVISM when they allow these things to go on and support them…I am not saying you all knowingly engage in this…but you are doing it whether or not your realize it. Moral relativism is a cancer…just like women serving on the altar

dominicandinah is not a Traditional Catholic so he’s going to dis-agree with the the traditionals on most occasions. I agree with you about girl altar severs, michaeldaniels!

 

[angelic06]

yes, but the Magisterium has not been doing a very good job lately and that is why we are in such a mess.

First, what religion is OHCAC? Also, this idea that the Magisterium is not doing a very good job as of late seems to smack of the SSPX…I’m guessing that if the Magisterium has permitted it, there must be a reason, and I’ll trust the Holy Ghost to lead where it wills on this matter.

That being said, I don’t have any strong feelings on this matter, but I’ve seen both good as well as sloppy serving by both male and female servers. And for the record, the church where I am at now has neither female readers or servers. I’m thinking that my current parish has adequate numbers of servers and readers now, since I have not seen an announcement in the bullentin for them in about a year. I may volunteer for another Mass (I sing in the church adult choir) if they really are in need as evidenced by the bullentin.

Take care.

Paul R. Viola

 

[preV2tradcath]

First, what religion is OHCAC? Also, this idea that the Magisterium is not doing a very good job as of late seems to smack of the SSPX…I’m guessing that if the Magisterium has permitted it, there must be a reason, and I’ll trust the Holy Ghost to lead where it wills on this matter.

That being said, I don’t have any strong feelings on this matter, but I’ve seen both good as well as sloppy serving by both male and female servers. And for the record, the church where I am at now has neither female readers or servers. I’m thinking that my current parish has adequate numbers of servers and readers now, since I have not seen an announcement in the bullentin for them in about a year. I may volunteer for another Mass (I sing in the church adult choir) if they really are in need as evidenced by the bullentin.

Take care.

Paul R. Viola

Wisdomseeker will have to confirm if I am right, but OHCAC could be One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

 

[Janet1983]

Moral relativism is a cancer…just like women serving on the altar

What appreciation for people like me… I served 14 years and taught altar servers.
I’ve been falled a lot of things, but cancer is a new one.

 

[peary]

At the risk of opening a hornet’s nest, what does Canon Law state about girl altar servers? I suspect that the same is valid for female priests.

I have seen girl servers in Novus Orde Masses.

There is nothing wrong that I can see about using girls as altar servers. Wikipedia has a good explanation on the use of female altar servers:

An altar server is a *lay assistant *to a member of the clergy during a religious service. An altar server attends to supporting tasks at the altar such as fetching and carrying, ringing the altar bell, etc.

Formally, and still in traditional catholic orders (FSSP, ICTK, SSPX, etc) only young men, among whom the Church hoped to recruit for the priesthood, and seminarians, who need the training, are altar servers; and thus altar boy was the usual term until Canon 230 was changed with the promulgation the code of Canon Law in 1983 which provided the option for females to serve at the altar. The term *altar server *is now widely used and accepted due to this.

An Acolyte is one of the minor orders which is installed by a Bishop. The title of Acolyte is still only given to men as it is an ordained minor order. This term is now usually reserved for the ministry that all who are to be promoted to the diaconate, whether permanent or transitory, must receive at least six months beforehand (canon 1035 of the Code of Canon Law).

It has nothing to do with either male or female altar servers. And it has nothing to do with female priests.

 

[Bluegoat]

What do you mean?

It is the claim that the Magisteriumis the arbiter of what is tradition and what is Tradition, and what is neither, that is the major difficulty for many Protestants and Orthodox Christians with Catholicism. To say that one may disagree with the Magisterium, or even should disagree, and side with Tradition, is to undercut a major claim that Catholics make about Catholicism; if it is Tradition that only men can be altar servers, than the Magisterium cannot teach the opposite. If it is only tradition, they can.

In fact, historically both groups have often claimed that this was exactly their reasoning - they were siding with Tradition against Rome. You can argue that they had their facts wrong, but based on the statement in question, it seems that you wouldn’t argue with the principle.