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Ockham
Guest
Is nudity forbidden in canon law?
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CDNowak
Guest
Particularly since liturgical law is separately codified: the Missal itself, the Lectionary, the Calendar, the GIRM, RS, Liturgicam Authenticam, all these are examples of liturgical law for the OF that is not codified in Canon Law.
The Cardinal of one of (?) the largest American Sees presides over at least one of these every year at a Religion Education Congress. I doubt his successor will, but we may have to wait two years to see.
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michaeldaniels
Guest
I wish every priest was a good priest and would do the same…these priest should be honored.
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Janet1983
Guest
Sounds a lot like the situation in Germany… just with soccer in this case. Most soccer games are on a Sunday. When I trained the new altar servers we had 11 children for First Communion. One moved away but 10 became altar servers. I had 5 boys and 5 girls. Of the 5 boys I lost 2 to soccer in the first 2 years because their parents thought soccer was more important.
Around the age of 14 most servers quit and only few stay longer… mostly boys stay however.
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utah_rose
Guest
We have some girl servers in our Masses, but they dress in long white robes, so they are not distracting, and some are more devout than the male servers.
I think it depends on your parish and diocese.
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Joannm
Guest
Actually they weren’t on Sundays. We had blue laws, everything was closed. There were no team sports or practices. Sunday was a day to rest and go to church no matter what your denomination was. Even when my kids were little, and that is only going back 15-20 years, there were no practices on Sundays.
BTW, with regard to your correlation between girl servers and the decline in seminarians. There currently is a slight rise in the number of seminarians. Most of these young men would have been servers just about the same time that girls were allowed to begin serving. I know of three young men who were altar servers with girls who are now in the seminary. Also in our parish, the boys have no problem serving with the girls as we have about a 50/50 mix.
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michaeldaniels
Guest
Exactly!!! And there was not dancing I assume in these churches prior to VII in the TLM…it is part of their culture and that is fine, but you are exactly right, it doesn’t belong in The Mass…how is it universal if every Church is doing something different? If that is the case, what is the difference between a Catholic church that is like that compared to the 5 Baptist churches in any given town???
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lilpinky080
Guest
Wow. I’ve been an (girl) altar server 6 years. I never knew so many people do not want me and the other girls up there. I’ve always been proud to serve the Lord and help the priest, but after seeing how it is viewed on this site I might take it off the “interests” on my profile. This is a real eye-opener.
Just so you know I think there are 7 girls and 7 boys at my church for servers.
p.s. It seems that many people consider serving to be like being a seminarian. That doesn’t seem right…?
Just so you know I think there are 7 girls and 7 boys at my church for servers.
p.s. It seems that many people consider serving to be like being a seminarian. That doesn’t seem right…?
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Malleus_01
Guest
Malleus: Well - remember - no one here is sdaying anything here to diminish your love for GOD and your interest in serving him. I am a Traditional Catholic and I do not believe in Altar Girls. Not because they are less worthy to serve - but because Almighty GOD has a role for each of us to play in serving him as HE wants us to serve him.
Read I Corinthians Chapter 11 and then remember that the Blessed Virgin Mary is never depicted as not being Veiled in Church. And for the Same reason - you saw the Bishop remove his Headwear during the Canon at Easter didnt you?
And yet of all the Apostles and Popes and Bishops and Male Saints throughout History Almighty GOD has raised The Blessed Virgin Mary as the only created human being in history who is not under Original Sin. The Greatest of all Saints. And she never served Mass. She served GOD and perfectly
Pax
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michaeldaniels
Guest
Great explanation
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Javl
Guest
Reasonable, or not, that’s the way it is. Why do you think we are having so much confusion within the Church? We have dancing, Guitar Masses, full orchestra masses, rock and roll masses, and so on.
PAX DOMINI
Shalom haMeshiach
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Cristiano
Guest
That is how the Roman code of law worked and Canon Law is based on the principles of the Roman code of law. What is not forbidden is permissible. That does not mean that I fully agree with the concept, you can also see that sometime the Church uses positive laws/instructions like the GIRM. We should stick to it, nothing more nothing less.
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Cristiano
Guest
Keep serving and challenge boys into serving, unless they think that they are not as capable as a girl.
Just remember that serving is not a right, it is a privilege.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
When were the blue laws abolished? When my children were babies, moms of older kids were starting to complain about things being scheduled on Sundays. Thankfully, mine participate in activites that very rarely have Sunday events and usually they are later in the afternoon.
Thankfully, as Catholics, it is possibly to fulfill our Sunday obligation at a Sat or Sun evening Mass, so even with a game on Sunday morning, faith can come first!
Thankfully, as Catholics, it is possibly to fulfill our Sunday obligation at a Sat or Sun evening Mass, so even with a game on Sunday morning, faith can come first!
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cctabb
Guest
You are saying that women have cause the decline in vocations and the decline of an entire denomination. Wow I had no idea that women had such power.
It is simply my observation, but I’ve known more boys that come away from alter serving with a dislike of serving than with a desire to become priests. One of my best friend’s sons quit serving because he no longer believed in God.
:clapping::clapping::clapping:
You keep right on serving.
I can’t tell you how many times my daughter is thanked and told she has done well while serving by Father, the deacons, and many parishioners. For the record the alter boys out number the alter girls 2 to 1.
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CDNowak
Guest
Even as one who thinks girls shouldn’t be serving, let me thank you for serving.
The reason that it seems that many people consider serving like being a seminarian is that they have a long memory. Before there were seminaries (what we know as higher education only has existed since the 1100s, and was not quick in spreading), those training to be priests would live with the priest and assist him in his duties. Somewhere along the way (I would venture to say again, before seminaries) there were a number of ministries that these clerics-in-training would be instituted to, known as the minor orders. The sequence of orders was(when codified at Trent): (first the minor) Porter, Lector, Exorcist, Alcolyte, (then the major) Subdeacon, Deacon, and Priest. Pope Paul VI changed all this with Ministeria Qauedam, suppressing the minor orders and the major order of Subdeacon and replacing them with instituted ministries. These instituted ministries were to be conferred on men only and only two were listed (with the possibility of permission granted to others, it seems no-one ever asked). The Instituted Ministry of the Lector and the Acolyte remain, with a notation that there is no reason for the Acolyte not to be called in places the Subdeacon.
These Ministries (or rather participations in the Ministry of the Priest) are codified in Canon Law and every seminarian is instituted to these roles in turn (usually in the fourth-third from last years of study). The existence of the altar server (or reader, for that matter) is an unnecessary substitution for the properly instituted minister. Sadly most bishops ignore the fact that they are supposed to have these instituted ministers in their diocese (there are at most a handful of US dioceses that institute men who are not in formation).
The Vatican and worldwide bishops (as gathered at the Synod in 2005) also continue to support altar boys as a sort of apprenticeship, to expose boys to the possibility of the becoming a priest. While I do not know of any studies to prove the point, many seminarians of my acquaintance do consider serving at the altar to have been a strong influence on their discernment, and nearly all note the in the late 1990’s the number of other boys serving dropped as girls began to serve. This is reason enough to re-examine the practice, and as pointed out, it can begin with any priest objecting.
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BernadetteM
Guest
At my old parish the priest had at least 30 altar boy servers at each mass I attended. He was a great priest and preached the Gospel. He spoke of sin which most priests don’t today.
When he got ill and had to retire, the new priest made sure that there were girls serving and also started what I would call a protestant tradition of before Mass asking all new comers to stand up and be recognized and then we could all clap.
He also went around the church on Easter and had different people sing parts of songs in their own language right in the middle of Mass.
That was the last time I ever went to the parish again. Sorry but if I want that type of service I could attend a protestant church.
My parish is traditional, no girls serving, communion rail, no shaking hands or holding hands etc. Good traditional music. Everyone is reverant in church. No talking, no distractions. People pray before Mass. Great homilies are given, the teachings of the faith are taught and people come from miles around to attend.
During Lent we had Fr. Bill Casey, a Mercy Father for our Lenten Mission, from what I understand the Cardinal had said no Mercy Fathers allowed.
One Mass is the TLM, but the others are OF and done with great reverence.
But we have hope in our diocese as our new Archbishop will be Gomez and from other posters I have heard that he is a very orthodox Bishop.
Living where I do it is probably very different than other states. Our Cardinal allowed liturgical dancing and other innovations. He is well know by the media and has brought very negative feelings towards the Church over the past years and cost the Church much money due to his coverning up the abuse.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
When he got ill and had to retire, the new priest made sure that there were girls serving and also started what I would call a protestant tradition of before Mass asking all new comers to stand up and be recognized and then we could all clap.
He also went around the church on Easter and had different people sing parts of songs in their own language right in the middle of Mass.
That was the last time I ever went to the parish again. Sorry but if I want that type of service I could attend a protestant church.
My parish is traditional, no girls serving, communion rail, no shaking hands or holding hands etc. Good traditional music. Everyone is reverant in church. No talking, no distractions. People pray before Mass. Great homilies are given, the teachings of the faith are taught and people come from miles around to attend.
During Lent we had Fr. Bill Casey, a Mercy Father for our Lenten Mission, from what I understand the Cardinal had said no Mercy Fathers allowed.
One Mass is the TLM, but the others are OF and done with great reverence.
But we have hope in our diocese as our new Archbishop will be Gomez and from other posters I have heard that he is a very orthodox Bishop.
Living where I do it is probably very different than other states. Our Cardinal allowed liturgical dancing and other innovations. He is well know by the media and has brought very negative feelings towards the Church over the past years and cost the Church much money due to his coverning up the abuse.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
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Javl
Guest
It seems that after Vatican II the liberal wing of the Church took over and we are now in this morass.
Truthfully, I see nothing wrong with female altar servers, readers, ministers, etc. for the NO mass. Remember, the early Church did have women as deacons and servers ( read St. Paul’s letters ). But, as a traditionalist, I believe that the Latin Mass should have only male ( boys ) altar servers and there should be no changes. ( I know that this will start an argument, oh well ).
PAX DOMINI
Shalom haMeshiach
Truthfully, I see nothing wrong with female altar servers, readers, ministers, etc. for the NO mass. Remember, the early Church did have women as deacons and servers ( read St. Paul’s letters ). But, as a traditionalist, I believe that the Latin Mass should have only male ( boys ) altar servers and there should be no changes. ( I know that this will start an argument, oh well ).
PAX DOMINI
Shalom haMeshiach
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Kamonian_Wax
Guest
I guess I see where you’re coming from. I would have a problem if there was a female minister doing benediction though. I also think girl servers look just a tad out of place in any setting. I don’t mind the female readers though, that’s A-O-K.It seems that after Vatican II the liberal wing of the Church took over and we are now in this morass.
Truthfully, I see nothing wrong with female altar servers, readers, ministers, etc. for the NO mass. Remember, the early Church did have women as deacons and servers ( read St. Paul’s letters ). But, as a traditionalist, I believe that the Latin Mass should have only male ( boys ) altar servers and there should be no changes. ( I know that this will start an argument, oh well ).
PAX DOMINI
Shalom haMeshiach
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choy
Guest
it is not the same as female priests because alter servers are not ordained, they are still lay people
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