Girl Altar Servers

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Ockham said:
Pope John Paul II ruled against altar girls. What more convincing do you need?
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He may have ruled against altar girls but he was not the final authority. If the Magisterium did not forbid it then it was allowed. Although the Pope is the head of the Church, he can be overruled by the Magisterium.

FYI: Although I am a Traditionalist, and faithful to the Magisterium, I have no objection to female altar servers. I look upon it as a stepping stone to a religious life for them.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem
 
choy said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_altar_servers

Pope John Paul II in fact confirmed that females are allowed to be Altar Servers, according to this
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Although not the most reliable source, it is correct in this case, although they have never been allowed in the Diocese of Rome.
Javl said:
He may have ruled against altar girls but he was not the final authority. If the Magisterium did not forbid it then it was allowed. Although the Pope is the head of the Church, he can be overruled by the Magisterium.

FYI: Although I am a Traditionalist, and faithful to the Magisterium, I have no objection to female altar servers. I look upon it as a stepping stone to a religious life for them.
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I suggest you look at the tradition behind altar servers (as posted repeatedly in this thread). Also I would love to see you explain that first paragraph and what you think the Magisterium of the Church is. :rolleyes:
 
CDNowak said:
Although not the most reliable source, it is correct in this case, although they have never been allowed in the Diocese of Rome.
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then follow the links at the bottom for the sources. i know Wikipedia is easily editable, but you can’t deny facts when they have references in the footnotes

also, part of allowing female altar servers is that it is up to the local archbishop to determine if the archdicese needs it. in a country like the Philippines where 80% of the population are Catholics, i don’t think there’ll be a shortage

in North America, i would think there is more of a need as there are less Catholics in the population and even less teens that are that interested in the Church, or religion in general
CDNowak said:
I suggest you look at the tradition behind altar servers (as posted repeatedly in this thread). Also I would love to see you explain that first paragraph and what you think the Magisterium of the Church is. :rolleyes:
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still, the issue is what does the Church allow today?
 
CDNowak said:
Although not the most reliable source, it is correct in this case, although they have never been allowed in the Diocese of Rome.

I suggest you look at the tradition behind altar servers (as posted repeatedly in this thread). Also I would love to see you explain that first paragraph and what you think the Magisterium of the Church is. :rolleyes:
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The Magisterium is the College of Bishops united with the Pope under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Neither has full authority. The Pope governs and teaches and the Bishops teach. This is how Jesus set up His Church: Peter governed and taught and the apostles taught. Re: Catechism of the Catholic Church.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem
 
choy said:
then follow the links at the bottom for the sources. i know Wikipedia is easily editable, but you can’t deny facts when they have references in the footnotes
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I did say it was correct in this case (though if you wish to avoid a challenge, post the link from the footnote rather than the wiki article).
choy said:
also, part of allowing female altar servers is that it is up to the local archbishop to determine if the archdicese needs it. in a country like the Philippines where 80% of the population are Catholics, i don’t think there’ll be a shortage

in North America, i would think there is more of a need as there are less Catholics in the population and even less teens that are that interested in the Church, or religion in general
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There is no need for any altar servers, only a slight necessity for Instituted Acolytes (that is, those seeking ordination must be instituted, others may). The Bishop does have ability to grant permission in the Latin Rite, but then at no level can a higher authority force altar girls on any other level (including the personal level).
choy said:
still, the issue is what does the Church allow today?
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The Church allows a plurality of opinions and practices.
 
Javl said:
He may have ruled against altar girls but he was not the final authority. If the Magisterium did not forbid it then it was allowed. Although the Pope is the head of the Church, he can be overruled by the Magisterium.

FYI: **Although I am a Traditionalist, and faithful to the Magisterium, I have no objection to female altar servers. **I look upon it as a stepping stone to a religious life for them.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem
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How traditional can you be when you ignore 1990 years of tradition? Popes up to and including JP2 condemned female altar servers
 
michaeldaniels said:
I’m sorry, but in my opinion, it is never prudent to continue a bad practice or accept it, out of fear of alienating people…because by continuing a bad practice or supporting whether advertantly or inadvertantly, you run the risk of alienating actual practicing Catholics who know and understand the faith…not those marginal ones that go to a clown mass or a life teen mass, etc. and think that is 100% purely orthodox Catholicism…don’t know about you, but I would rather retain the ladies wearing mantillas, saying countless rosaries, and nuns who actually wear their habits, etc. as opposed to Catholics who are only Catholic in name and who don’t take the time to learn enough about their faith to know what they are doing is wrong. No my friend…indifference is not the answer…solid catechesis is the answer. They won’t lose their faith…they will gain a deeper understanding and knowledge of their faith…and appreciate their distinct roles more.
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Amen and Thank you.
 
franklinf said:
How traditional can you be when you ignore 1990 years of tradition? Popes up to and including JP2 condemned female altar servers
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JP2 allowed female altar servers, and he was a Traditionalist. The same with Bendict XVI. Man made traditions can be abrogated. They are not part of Apostolic teachings or Traditions. I’m a Traditionalist as far as the Mass and Liturgy goes. I subscribe to the FSSP.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem
 
Javl said:
JP2 allowed female altar servers, and he was a Traditionalist. The same with Bendict XVI. Man made traditions can be abrogated. They are not part of Apostolic teachings or Traditions. I’m a Traditionalist as far as the Mass and Liturgy goes. I subscribe to the FSSP.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem
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How was JP2 a Traditionalist? Have you ever seen an altar girl at a FSSP Mass?
 
Javl said:
JP2 allowed female altar servers, and he was a Traditionalist. The same with Bendict XVI. Man made traditions can be abrogated. They are not part of Apostolic teachings or Traditions. I’m a Traditionalist as far as the Mass and Liturgy goes. I subscribe to the FSSP.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem
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Pope Benedict XIV, July 26, 1755:
“Pope Gelasius in his ninth letter (chap. 26) to the bishops of Lucania condemned the evil practice which had been introduced of women serving the priest at the celebration of Mass. Since this abuse had spread to the Greeks, Innocent IV strictly forbade it in his letter to the bishop of Tusculum: “Women should not dare to serve at the altar; they should be altogether refused this ministry.” We too have forbidden this practice in the same words in Our oft-repeated constitution Etsi Pastoralis, sect. 6, no. 21.”
papalencyclicals.net/Ben14/b14allat.htm

Pope Paul VI:
“In conformity with norms traditional in the Church, women (single, married, religious), whether in churches, homes, convents, schools, or institutions for women, are barred from serving the priest at the altar.”
adoremus.org/LiturgicaeInstaurationes.html

Pope John Paul 2:
Women are not, however, permitted to act as altar servers.
adoremus.org/InaestimabileDonum.html

Please explain why this was all of a sudden reversed. Why was tradition done away with in favor of modernism and innovation? Popes up to and including John Paul 2 had forbidden girl altar servers.
 
I’m against girl altar servers just because I’m from the Diocese of Lincoln and I’ve never been to a mass with them. I had a friend not too long ago who went “across the border” into the Diocese of Grand Island and they had girl servers. She said it was more like a protestant service than a catholic mass. I personally don’t think I could go to a mass with girl altar servers, it’d be too awkward.

Bishop Bruskewitz is truly a Catholic Bishop and he rocks! Go Bruskewitz!:dancing:
 
franklinf said:
Pope John Paul 2:
Women are not, however, permitted to act as altar servers.
adoremus.org/InaestimabileDonum.html
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Which is good enough for me. If girls are altar servers, then they’ll start to question the whole male priesthood because altar servers are really supposed to train the boys for a possible future in the priesthood. And with our vocation shortage, we really should be canning the practice.
 
These traditions are man made and can be changed, reversed, or abrogated. Only Divine Tradition cannot, and must not, be changed.

Although I prefer not to have female altar servers, I can see no way to prevent them other than by Canon Law ( it probably is easy to get around Liturgical Law ). As for women becoming priests, JohnPaul II gave scriptural proof as to why there cannot be women priests in the Catholic Church. Also, if I am not mistaken,Canon Law also prevents it from occuring.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem
 
Javl said:
These traditions are man made and can be changed, reversed, or abrogated. Only Divine Tradition cannot, and must not, be changed.

Although I prefer not to have female altar servers, I can see no way to prevent them other than by Canon Law ( it probably is easy to get around Liturgical Law ). As for women becoming priests, JohnPaul II gave scriptural proof as to why there cannot be women priests in the Catholic Church. Also, if I am not mistaken,Canon Law also prevents it from occuring.
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Actually liturgical law is much stricter in interpretation than Canon Law, although it is easier for the Pope to change. Liturgical law provides the means for bishops, pastors, and individual priests to prevent girl altar servers. The laity can encourage these to take the extraordinarily courageous step of reverting to traditional practice.

Canon Law is not what prevents the ordination of women but divine law. The Church’s argument is the she has not the power to ordain women, if it was a matter of canon law then the Church would be asserting the ability to do so.
 
CDNowak said:
Actually liturgical law is much stricter in interpretation than Canon Law, although it is easier for the Pope to change. ** Liturgical law provides the means for bishops, pastors, and individual priests to prevent girl altar servers.** The laity can encourage these to take the extraordinarily courageous step of reverting to traditional practice.

Canon Law is not what prevents the ordination of women but divine law. The Church’s argument is the she has not the power to ordain women, if it was a matter of canon law then the Church would be asserting the ability to do so.
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In reference to the emphasized above, the trouble is that we have too many liberal Bishops and priests, or Bishops and priests who are literally afraid to cross the liberals within the Church. And although many Bishops would agree to ordain women as priests, the Pope would not concur. So I’m sure that we are safe for the time being.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom haMeshiach
Shalom Aleichem
 
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