Girlfriend advice and prayers needed

[JoyIsLikeRain]

This is all very interesting. I guess you are beginning to get an idea of what it would be like to be married into this family.

on the question from the mother. Just curious, how did your girlfriend relay that conversation to you? Was she laughing about it? (I.e., “You’ll never believe what my mom just asked me?”) Or did it seem as though she brought it up to you to gauge your reaction and/or to see when you might be planning to propose?

Did she happen to say how she responded to her mom?

She said it laughingly to me. However, she didn’t tell me what she told the mother.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

Update

We had some real good times and things smoothed-out after the mother incident.

Then, yesterday, we went to meet my parents for brunch. Later on that day, we drove to go out to dinner.

On the way, she turned to me while I was driving and said “I like you a lot, and I think we’re serious.” To this, I agreed.

Then she said “I want to be married in two years.”

I almost rear-ended the car ahead of me.

I said “I don’t know what to tell you.” She said “I know, we’ve only dated less than 4 months. And who knows, whoever it is I marry. My goal is to be married in two years.” I said “You’re entitled to making and stating your goals. I just don’t know what to tell you.”

upon returning home, I got a barrage of lengthy texts from her, stating that she maybe was premature in stating that…that she could even be married in 5 or 6 years…that we should really “discern” our call to marraige and what it means.

I confided to some old friends what transported.

Some said I was getting too old and I should be married in two years. Other said it sounded like she’s blind-sided by the glamour/status of weddings/marriages and she shouldn’t have said that so early.

I just feel like all these recent events are ruining the romance for me. Some may say “marraige first, romance later,” but I don’t believe that.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

Update

We had some real good times and things smoothed-out after the mother incident.

Then, yesterday, we went to meet my parents for brunch. Later on that day, we drove to go out to dinner.

On the way, she turned to me while I was driving and said “I like you a lot, and I think we’re serious.” To this, I agreed.

Then she said “I want to be married in two years.”

I almost rear-ended the car ahead of me.

I said “I don’t know what to tell you.” She said “I know, we’ve only dated less than 4 months. And who knows, whoever it is I marry. My goal is to be married in two years.” I said “You’re entitled to making and stating your goals. I just don’t know what to tell you.”

upon returning home, I got a barrage of lengthy texts from her, stating that she maybe was premature in stating that…that she could even be married in 5 or 6 years…that we should really “discern” our call to marraige and what it means.

I confided to some old friends what transported.

Some said I was getting too old and I should be married in two years. Other said it sounded like she’s blind-sided by the glamour/status of weddings/marriages and she shouldn’t have said that so early.

I just feel like all these recent events are ruining the romance for me. Some may say “marraige first, romance later,” but I don’t believe that.

Sounds like she really wants to get married and sees you as her soonest opportunity for matrimony.

(Definitely don’t listen to the friends who say you are getting too old and need to hurry up and get married. I assume they were joking, but feeling that you are running out of time is never a good reason to rush into marriage. I think your original post said you are still in your 20s? You have plenty of time yet, especially as a man.)

 

[pianistclare]

Oy.

I think you missed a huge opportunity to tell her that you’re not comfortable with that, (which I don’t think you are but are thinking it’s “mean” to say so) and that you should definitely sit down and tell her that:

1. you hardly know each other
2. you personally cannot predict what will be going on in your life in 2 years
3. that you don’t have “plans” that impact others in such a direct and personal way
4. you’re willing to date, but not make such an important commitment after such a brief time.

Otherwise, nothing will change, and let us know when you set the date!

 

[MJJean]

Update

We had some real good times and things smoothed-out after the mother incident.

Then, yesterday, we went to meet my parents for brunch. Later on that day, we drove to go out to dinner.

On the way, she turned to me while I was driving and said “I like you a lot, and I think we’re serious.” To this, I agreed.

Then she said “I want to be married in two years.”

I almost rear-ended the car ahead of me.

I said “I don’t know what to tell you.” She said “I know, we’ve only dated less than 4 months. And who knows, whoever it is I marry. My goal is to be married in two years.” I said “You’re entitled to making and stating your goals. I just don’t know what to tell you.”

upon returning home, I got a barrage of lengthy texts from her, stating that she maybe was premature in stating that…that she could even be married in 5 or 6 years…that we should really “discern” our call to marraige and what it means.

I confided to some old friends what transported.

Some said I was getting too old and I should be married in two years. Other said it sounded like she’s blind-sided by the glamour/status of weddings/marriages and she shouldn’t have said that so early.

I just feel like all these recent events are ruining the romance for me. Some may say “marraige first, romance later,” but I don’t believe that.

Not saying this is the norm, but my DH and I talked marriage 3 months into our relationship. We were both 24. We knew we loved each other and were compatible, so… We’ve been a couple for 15 years, married for 12.

I wouldn’t say that I would recommend planning to marry so soon into a relationship, but I know a lot of people who met and married in under a year and have been together ever since. I also know people who spent 2-5 years deciding only to split up within a decade. I guess when you know, you know!

Now I don’t think your GF was out of line and here’s why. She has said she is in love with you. She knows she wants to be married. She was letting you know that she isn’t interested in being a long term gf, but a wife at some reasonable future date. Nothing wrong with that.

IMHO, adults dating should know by the 6 month mark if the person they are seeing is potential marriage material. Within 1-2 years they should either be married, have firm-ish marriage plans for the not too distant future, or be parting in search of mates.

I think she rolled it back via text afterward due to embarrassment and fear that she was chasing you away by mentioning marriage. I think you should commend her for being honest about her needs and goals and tell her that she was right to communicate this with you.

BTW, “I don’t know what to tell you…” is not a great response. I understand you were a bit shocked, but that response can seem a bit…mean. Something along the lines of “I’m not sure where we’re headed yet. It’s too early for me to say. I promise I won’t drag my feet making a decision and I’ll be honest with you when I know how I feel about us long term.” would have been good.

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

Oy.

I think you missed a huge opportunity to tell her that you’re not comfortable with that, (which I don’t think you are but are thinking it’s “mean” to say so) and that you should definitely sit down and tell her that:

1. you hardly know each other
2. you personally cannot predict what will be going on in your life in 2 years
3. that you don’t have “plans” that impact others in such a direct and personal way
4. you’re willing to date, but not make such an important commitment after such a brief time.

Otherwise, nothing will change, and let us know when you set the date!

Indeed, I’m 29 and my buddies who said I was old weren’t joking either. You said it best with comfortable: am I supposed to be “comfortable”? Yes, by 6 months a couple should be at that point where they can say “ok, is this heading somewhere, we gotta start seeing a future together.” 3 months of casual dating don’t give these answers for many people (Some, yes. But those posters who claim they met their soul mate and married in the span of less than 12 months are “statistical outliers.”)

BTW, “I don’t know what to tell you…” is not a great response. I understand you were a bit shocked, but that response can seem a bit…mean. Something along the lines of “I’m not sure where we’re headed yet. It’s too early for me to say. I promise I won’t drag my feet making a decision and I’ll be honest with you when I know how I feel about us long term.” would have been good.

I’m sure any response other than that would be acceptable (at least in your book). I urge you to have someone say that to you while driving in downtown city traffic and come up with such a thought-out and articulate response instantly.

 

[pianistclare]

Actually, what’s more troubling to me than how long you’ve been together is the subtle way she manipulates your emotions.
She makes a statement (that seeks a predetermined response) and when she doesn’t get it, she sends you a slew of messages that you must address in such a way to make her think you said what she wanted you to say.
Does that make sense or sound familiar?
A person who says “I plan to be married in 2 years” is really saying "Come heck or high water, I WILL be married and it doesn’t matter to whom. Because if it mattered, she would simply wait fro God’s will to be done, and allow nature to take it’s course for you as a couple.
This ultimatum style of commitment that she seeks from you is unhealthy. If you marry her be prepared for her to also say:
"by this time next year we WILL be living in our dream home, next door to mom,
and in another year:
“By this time next year we WILL be expecting a child”
and then:
“by this time 5 years from now Junior WILL be on playing in the Symphony.”

This is someone who prefers to micro manage what she perceives is a life well planned, than seeing where the road leads you, what God’s plan is, or whether or not you care to have an opinion, even.

Voice your opinion! What are you waiting for?
Unless you are positive that you don’t mind these antics, I don’t understand why it is so hard to state what YOUR plan is? Do you have a plan? Are you willing to let God lead you? Whichever it is, tell her. It would be a kindness. Either way.
Good luck!

 

[Xantippe]

Update

We had some real good times and things smoothed-out after the mother incident.

Then, yesterday, we went to meet my parents for brunch. Later on that day, we drove to go out to dinner.

On the way, she turned to me while I was driving and said “I like you a lot, and I think we’re serious.” To this, I agreed.

Then she said “I want to be married in two years.”

I almost rear-ended the car ahead of me.

I said “I don’t know what to tell you.” She said “I know, we’ve only dated less than 4 months. And who knows, whoever it is I marry. My goal is to be married in two years.” I said “You’re entitled to making and stating your goals. I just don’t know what to tell you.”

upon returning home, I got a barrage of lengthy texts from her, stating that she maybe was premature in stating that…that she could even be married in 5 or 6 years…that we should really “discern” our call to marraige and what it means.

I confided to some old friends what transported.

Some said I was getting too old and I should be married in two years. Other said it sounded like she’s blind-sided by the glamour/status of weddings/marriages and she shouldn’t have said that so early.

I just feel like all these recent events are ruining the romance for me. Some may say “marraige first, romance later,” but I don’t believe that.

Why are you still seeing this person?

The 5-6 year window is ridiculous, by the way, especially for people in their late 20s. You should know way, way earlier than that.

I personally started making similar remarks to my future husband around the 3 month mark and we were married very rapidly thereafter, but the difference between my situation and yours is that both my future husband and I were both very eager to get married, whereas your girlfriend is all but hogtying you and throwing you over her saddle bow.

So, it’s not the shortness of the time that is the problem (if you were crazy about each other, 2 years would be more than reasonable as a timeline), but the enthusiasm mismatch between the two of you.

 

[mdleagedguy]

A few days ago, she said the three words - “I love you.” It was in the car, and we were driving home from a Christmas party where she had more than a few glasses of wine (I was driving stone-sober).

Dude, that’s nothing. On a first date, a beautiful young woman began to talk to me about “when we get a dog” over dinner. We’ve been married 23 years now.

 

[mdleagedguy]

She also stopped saying “I love you.” - while some people have congratulated me on the fact she told me that, I am just about relieved that she has taken a break from saying this. She said it several times in person on two occasions - we weren’t in situations where I could discus what makes her say that after 2.5 months and a glass of wine or two.

She is reacting to how you have received this. Remember, you are not the only person involved here. When she says this, she is gauging your reaction, and modifying her behavior for how you react.

 

[mdleagedguy]

Okay, after finishing the whole thread, here is my 2 cents. Before I got married, I went on a lot of first and only dates with a lot of different girls. I knew they were not for me. I didn’t waste time with them. You just know. It’s not a rational thing. It’s something you know and feel in your gut. It sounds to me like you know she’s not the one for you. Re-read Polar Guy’s post. If you know in your gut she’s not for you, break it off now. If that’s not the case, then develop the relationship with an eye to marrying her. Your choice. Don’t let her mom or her sister or her cousins get into it. It’s between you and her. Marry her, or don’t. The whole drawn-out “is she right for me” thing is nuts. It sounds like she has it figured out, but you don’t. She believes you are the right one for you. Kudos to her for making up her mind. If you don’t think she’s the right one for you, then don’t string her along. She won’t change with time. She won’t change by looking at her from another angle. You already know what sort of person she is. You just don’t know what your heart wants. Keep her, or throw her back. It’s scary, I know. But it’s like being on the high dive at the swimming pool. You look down, and you either jump into the pool or turn around and climb down the ladder. No point in holding up the line if you can’t decide.

 

[Irishmom2]

Okay, I have read this whole thread. You didn’t seem to want to go out with her after dating her for a while, but you did. Now, she is telling you she wants to marry you, and I am going to assume you are not wishing to do so, so what are you going to do? Are you going to go along with the idea until you can’t stand her anymore? Or are you going to go along with it and get married to someone that may be sweet, but not the one for you?

Timing is everything. You can’t get married because you are a certain age, or because someone else us pushing you into it.

When it is right, you will both know. You will both feel it. And right now, you aren’t. And that’s because you never really felt it. Don’t hang in there with her because she is better than being alone.

 

[underacloud]

There are lot’s of good reasons for not marrying this girl, but the most important one is that you don’t actually want to marry her. I suspect everything else in this thread is a rationalisation of the choice that your heart has already made.

If she has a plan to be married within 2 years, I guess you’d better step aside quick smart and let her find this man she will marry. If not, I’d say you are wasting her time, and yours.

 

[MJJean]

Indeed, I’m 29 and my buddies who said I was old weren’t joking either. You said it best with comfortable: am I supposed to be “comfortable”? Yes, by 6 months a couple should be at that point where they can say “ok, is this heading somewhere, we gotta start seeing a future together.” 3 months of casual dating don’t give these answers for many people (Some, yes. But those posters who claim they met their soul mate and married in the span of less than 12 months are “statistical outliers.”)

I’m sure any response other than that would be acceptable (at least in your book). I urge you to have someone say that to you while driving in downtown city traffic and come up with such a thought-out and articulate response instantly.

The purpose of dating is to discern marriage, yes? Within 3-6 months a grown adult should be able to look at the person they are dating and know if this person is a marriage prospect or not. I’m not saying marry them right then, but to simply ask themselves “Is there a point to continuing this relationship? Is this someone I would consider marrying in the future?”

If yes, carry on. If no, cut bait and move on.

As far as the city traffic, I live in an urban area and have had to explain where babies come from to a 5 year old while in traffic. THAT was unexpected. This? Not so much. It shouldn’t have been so unexpected.

If I remember right, this girls mom already asked if there was going to be an engagement, yes? If so, this was not an unexpected conversation. She says she loves you. She’s said to be a sweet and traditional girl. Sweet and traditional girls who have moms asking about marriage are looking to get married sooner rather than later.

She’s being honest about her goals and what she wants. You need to tell her that you aren’t ready to think long term commitment and that you may never be able to think long term with her.

If she truly does want to marry and start a family within the next few years it’s cruel to waste her time if you aren’t also thinking along those lines. Just because a lot of women are comfortable starting families later in life doesn’t mean every woman is ok with waiting. Some want to start having their babies while they are young-ish so they will have more time and energy. Especially if they are thinking of a larger family.

The reality is that maternal age effects fertility, miscarriage rates, maternal health concerns rise with age and so do fetal health concerns. If this girl wants to have a few babies she probably doesn’t want to start trying to conceive them when she is 35.

It takes time to find a mate, get married, spend some time as a couple, and then to conceive a first child. After that there is the recovery period before trying to conceive again. Truly, time is of the essence.

There are lot’s of good reasons for not marrying this girl, but the most important one is that you don’t actually want to marry her. I suspect everything else in this thread is a rationalisation of the choice that your heart has already made.

If she has a plan to be married within 2 years, I guess you’d better step aside quick smart and let her find this man she will marry. If not, I’d say you are wasting her time, and yours.

 

[Xantippe]

There are lot’s of good reasons for not marrying this girl, but the most important one is that you don’t actually want to marry her. I suspect everything else in this thread is a rationalisation of the choice that your heart has already made.

If she has a plan to be married within 2 years, I guess you’d better step aside quick smart and let her find this man she will marry. If not, I’d say you are wasting her time, and yours.

Yes.

 

[pianistclare]

There are lot’s of good reasons for not marrying this girl, but the most important one is that you don’t actually want to marry her. I suspect everything else in this thread is a rationalisation of the choice that your heart has already made.

If she has a plan to be married within 2 years, I guess you’d better step aside quick smart and let her find this man she will marry. If not, I’d say you are wasting her time, and yours.

Amen.
Stop the tortured lingering. It will only hurt her.
Do you really want that?
:tsktsk:

 

[chevalier]

All right, some potential issues I’m mentioning not because I believe them to be the case (not enough data to say, really) but to spare you some pain just in case:

— Is she naturally a very traditional kind of person and does it fit her, or is it like a role she’s trying to fill without being her own person while doing so?
— Can she see without difficulty the difference between morality and tradition and between Catholic morality and quaint social mores?
— Does she know herself and is she capable of making decisions in her life, or do her parents run her life?

Now regarding the very painful issue of her changing your joint plans unilaterally: I know it feels bad, but on the other hand she probably uses her weekends and some of the afternoons in the week to meet up with you by default, whereas she wouldn’t like to lose her friends or become distant with her relatives. For this reason, it’s likely that whenever the subject of meeting up with a friend or relative pops up she already has some previous plans with you. I believe you’d do well to take this into consideration. And when she takes someone along, that’s probably better than cancelling her date with you altogether, right?

Well, and it seems that in many situations she asks you. You obviously feel the pressure, because you’d look bad for refusing and perhaps you wish you could refuse. That feeling is there (and I certainly can understand it; I’ve felt it many times), but it isn’t really caused by her. Rather, it’s caused by the situation. People have limited life spans, there are only so many days in a week or month, you get the point. She’s a kind person for actually asking you.

On the other hand, it would be different if she kept calling off unilaterally so often that all your plans essentially became unreliable.

Finally, well, it looks like she’s involving you with her family and friends. That’s kinda what you get if you marry someone. Can’t really whisk her outta there and her alone.

Oh, and for the record, it’s entirely possible that she might be more into the ‘l word’, formalizing your relationship etc. than you are while at the same time less into actually spending time together than you are. In other words, you can have the greater need for mutual company, even though she’s the one who seems to have the greater need for officially bringing your relationship to a higher level. Things like that happen.

 

[Xantippe]

All right, some potential issues I’m mentioning not because I believe them to be the case (not enough data to say, really) but to spare you some pain just in case:

— Is she naturally a very traditional kind of person and does it fit her, or is it like a role she’s trying to fill without being her own person while doing so?
— Can she see without difficulty the difference between morality and tradition and between Catholic morality and quaint social mores?
— Does she know herself and is she capable of making decisions in her life, or do her parents run her life?

Now regarding the very painful issue of her changing your joint plans unilaterally: I know it feels bad, but on the other hand she probably uses her weekends and some of the afternoons in the week to meet up with you by default, whereas she wouldn’t like to lose her friends or become distant with her relatives. For this reason, it’s likely that whenever the subject of meeting up with a friend or relative pops up she already has some previous plans with you. I believe you’d do well to take this into consideration. And when she takes someone along, that’s probably better than cancelling her date with you altogether, right?

Well, and it seems that in many situations she asks you. You obviously feel the pressure, because you’d look bad for refusing and perhaps you wish you could refuse. That feeling is there (and I certainly can understand it; I’ve felt it many times), but it isn’t really caused by her. Rather, it’s caused by the situation. People have limited life spans, there are only so many days in a week or month, you get the point. She’s a kind person for actually asking you.

On the other hand, it would be different if she kept calling off unilaterally so often that all your plans essentially became unreliable.

Finally, well, it looks like she’s involving you with her family and friends. That’s kinda what you get if you marry someone. Can’t really whisk her outta there and her alone.

Oh, and for the record, it’s entirely possible that she might be more into the ‘l word’, formalizing your relationship etc. than you are while at the same time less into actually spending time together than you are. In other words, you can have the greater need for mutual company, even though she’s the one who seems to have the greater need for officially bringing your relationship to a higher level. Things like that happen.

That was very insightful, chevalier!

 

[JoyIsLikeRain]

Oh, and for the record, it’s entirely possible that she might be more into the ‘l word’, formalizing your relationship etc. than you are while at the same time less into actually spending time together than you are. In other words, you can have the greater need for mutual company, even though she’s the one who seems to have the greater need for officially bringing your relationship to a higher level. Things like that happen.

UPDATE

After some happy months, we struck a low point recently: last Saturday, we went to a St. Patrick’s Day event sponsored by a local Young Adult Catholic group. It was actually at a big, overcrowded bar.

She ran off to join some other girls like a kid in a candy store once we got there, and I couldn’t find her in the crowds. She reappeared almost two hours later, intoxicated and loud.

We had a deep, heart-to-heart talk yesterday. Initially she asked if I was going to dump her over that event.

I told her that we’re at different levels in our relationship. She’s got every advantage going for her at this time in her life, and I told her I want to her to evaluate where she wants to be.

I said that I am OK with taking a break from dating, or continuing with a fresh start. I told her that I don’t want her to date me for the sake of having a boyfriend, but rather date because the outcome should (ideally) lead to marraige. She agreed, and took things quite well.

We talked about her maturity level in comparison to mine. We both said that she may be unsure of what she really wants in a partner, as I am her first long-term boyfriend. We discussed how early-on she explained how her mother pushed marraige and that really worried me. I explained to her that it is good that she places her family first, but also she needs to do homework on what she needs at this time in her life: finish her MBA, get serious with a man, or focus on her siblings who all live in another state.

She told me she talks about her siblings to me frequently because she says she doesn’t know what else to talk to me about. I told her in a healthy relationship, the two partners should be bouncing off or at least complementing each other’s words, even if their ideas don’t always match-up. Instead, we discovered we don’t have a lot of shared interests nor have our conversations gone very deep, mainly because she claims she’s too shy, and I don’t want to do all the talking and rambling about my own things.

I ended with stating that she’s a very good person and a very religious girl, but she she should go home to think and pray about what she wants from herself and her relationship.

It felt good to get that out in the open for me, but of course, I still feel guilty because she’s simply such a nice, good person. I even said I don’t want to hurt her by stringing her along, and she understood that. I told her she’s the nicest girl I ever dated, and that I’m a basketball hoop, and she’s a player with the ball - the ball is in her court about what direction the relationship should go. I said that I feel we should be deep into it by now, and I told her I don’t get those same signals from her. She took it very well, and relatively maturely.

 

[Xantippe]

UPDATE

After some happy months, we struck a low point recently: last Saturday, we went to a St. Patrick’s Day event sponsored by a local Young Adult Catholic group. It was actually at a big, overcrowded bar.

She ran off to join some other girls like a kid in a candy store once we got there, and I couldn’t find her in the crowds. She reappeared almost two hours later, intoxicated and loud.

We had a deep, heart-to-heart talk yesterday. Initially she asked if I was going to dump her over that event.

I told her that we’re at different levels in our relationship. She’s got every advantage going for her at this time in her life, and I told her I want to her to evaluate where she wants to be.

I said that I am OK with taking a break from dating, or continuing with a fresh start. I told her that I don’t want her to date me for the sake of having a boyfriend, but rather date because the outcome should (ideally) lead to marraige. She agreed, and took things quite well.

We talked about her maturity level in comparison to mine. We both said that she may be unsure of what she really wants in a partner, as I am her first long-term boyfriend. We discussed how early-on she explained how her mother pushed marraige and that really worried me. I explained to her that it is good that she places her family first, but also she needs to do homework on what she needs at this time in her life: finish her MBA, get serious with a man, or focus on her siblings who all live in another state.

She told me she talks about her siblings to me frequently because she says she doesn’t know what else to talk to me about. I told her in a healthy relationship, the two partners should be bouncing off or at least complementing each other’s words, even if their ideas don’t always match-up. Instead, we discovered we don’t have a lot of shared interests nor have our conversations gone very deep, mainly because she claims she’s too shy, and I don’t want to do all the talking and rambling about my own things.

I ended with stating that she’s a very good person and a very religious girl, but she she should go home to think and pray about what she wants from herself and her relationship.

It felt good to get that out in the open for me, but of course, I still feel guilty because she’s simply such a nice, good person. I even said I don’t want to hurt her by stringing her along, and she understood that. I told her she’s the nicest girl I ever dated, and that I’m a basketball hoop, and she’s a player with the ball - the ball is in her court about what direction the relationship should go. I said that I feel we should be deep into it by now, and I told her I don’t get those same signals from her. She took it very well, and relatively maturely.

So, did you break up?

I feel like you are both kind of goading the other to break up with you because neither of you have the guts to actually do it.

How about breaking up cleanly and moving on, without wasting any more time? You can both do a lot better.