Ask yourself is your husband cheated on you 5 months ago, and told you about it two months ago, if you would have put it out of your mind by then.I might be more inclined to agree with you if this was a recent thing. I say might because I am really hesitant to decide for myself what someone else is thinking or feeling, much less deciding where the person is emotionally. But the fact that this happened 5 months ago and he has known for 2 months makes it firmly his problem at this point.
The difference is that he has made a commitment to me. The girl in this situation hadn’t met the man, much less made any commitment. Without that exclusivity and commitment there is no cheating. That’s like saying that people on dating websites are cheaters because they message more than one person at a time, and that just isn’t the case.Ask yourself is your husband cheated on you 5 months ago, and told you about it two months ago, if you would have put it out of your mind by then.
IMHO, five months ago is extremely recent, and very indicative of the type of person currently is. In fact, the typical marriage prep time in the Catholic Church is longer than that.
Messaging someone and having sex with someone are not the same thing.That’s like saying that people on dating websites are cheaters because they message more than one person at a time, and that just isn’t the case.
I think you are watching this entire situation under the lens of whether it is cheating and truly that is irreleveant. What I, warrior and others are pointing out is the issue of red flags. You have someone who you don’t know (because they don’t know each other for real yet) and you like that person, how do you know if that person you don’t know can be a good match in the future for you. The only way to know is to look at that person’s behavior and look to see if there are any red flags that may signal that that person is not a good match for you. In this case there are two major red flags: dishonesty and the fact she went to have sex with an ex (forget about cheating and pre-marital sex, no one goes back to have sex with an ex unless they have serious issues and insecurities). So with the little information we have a relationship with this girl screams problems ahead, why get into a relationship if you know is going to end in trouble. Now because we don’t know the girl we are giving her the benefit of the doubt and recommending the OP to take time to know the girl better, but the fact of the matter is there are big red flags in this relationship and ignoring them is not going to benefit him or her.The difference is that he has made a commitment to me. The girl in this situation hadn’t met the man, much less made any commitment. Without that exclusivity and commitment there is no cheating. That’s like saying that people on dating websites are cheaters because they message more than one person at a time, and that just isn’t the case.
Yes. Not that the OP should just automatically drop her, but the girlfriend should be fully aware of why the OP is wary of her integrity and how sturdy her sense of self is. In her shoes, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he had some doubts. She has given him reason to have his doubts. If he is satisfied that she does not defend these as good decisions and wants to take a wait-and-see attitude concerning her character, that is not in any way condescending. It is good sense.I think you are watching this entire situation under the lens of whether it is cheating and truly that is irreleveant. What I, warrior and others are pointing out is the issue of red flags. You have someone who you don’t know (because they don’t know each other for real yet) and you like that person, how do you know if that person you don’t know can be a good match in the future for you. The only way to know is to look at that person’s behavior and look to see if there are any red flags that may signal that that person is not a good match for you. In this case there are two major red flags: dishonesty and the fact she went to have sex with an ex (forget about cheating and pre-marital sex, no one goes back to have sex with an ex unless they have serious issues and insecurities). So with the little information we have a relationship with this girl screams problems ahead, why get into a relationship if you know is going to end in trouble. Now because we don’t know the girl we are giving her the benefit of the doubt and recommending the OP to take time to know the girl better, but the fact of the matter is there are big red flags in this relationship and ignoring them is not going to benefit him or her.
(Bolding Mine) Of course it’s fine to have that conversation with yourself. But that’s not what you’re talking about doing. You’re saying that he should tell her that she needs to be single for awhile and do some soul searching. If someone thought that they were qualified to make that assessment and decision for me, I would see that as condescending and presumptuous.I’m not sure why you think I meant the OP should be dictating anything I suggested to the current girlfriend. If anything I meant she should take some time for herself and do some self discovery without any (name removed by moderator)ut from any man, the OP or even the ex boyfriend. I even said she has no obligation to the OP to do anything or to prove anything to him. I only meant it could be time well spent with just being with herself and discerning what she wants in a relationship and a future spouse. If say in a year, the OP and the girlfriend find themselves talking again, perhaps they can decide to try dating, or maybe it won’t ever work. Who knows, maybe they’ll never even see each other again because she will find someone else or the OP will find someone else. ** But its not condescending or belittling to have a conversation with your self and tell yourself that you need a break from relationships and the time to discern why you needed to have premarital sex with an ex and why its not productive to any relationship**. Its time very well spent if you are working on yourself and rededicate to living a chaste life and working on being a great future spouse BEFORE you get involved in a relationship, not AFTER you start dating a new guy.
Depends on the situation and person. From what the OP described I kind of see this as his problem. They fell for each other, she’s done everything in the relationship right, she’s wonderful, etc. He describes her in the best of ways and admits that it is his own anger, pride, and jealousy that is getting in the way and that he “demanded” to know about her sexual past. Yes, I see red flags here, most of them coming from him.Messaging someone and having sex with someone are not the same thing.
Do you feel it’s completely okay for someone to contact you about dating while still having sex with a reputed ex-boyfriend? Is that someone that you really want to date and/or marry???
Wait…you think that if someone you were dating had sex “that it really was just casual and that he didn’t have feelings for her” that this is a good thing? You think that “casual sex” with someone you’ve broken up with is a good portent when it comes to your ability to maintain a lifetime of fidelity within another relationship? You think there is a remote chance that if the tables were turned you ought to be in any hurry to “trust” that his ties to her are broken? On what evidence would you trust, when you have such a solid basis on which to withhold trust? The person could be in total denial concerning the truth that they are anything but over the last relationship and never will be over the last relationship, and how different would the behavior be?Depends on the situation and person. From what the OP described I kind of see this as his problem. They fell for each other, she’s done everything in the relationship right, she’s wonderful, etc. He describes her in the best of ways and admits that it is his own anger, pride, and jealousy that is getting in the way and that he “demanded” to know about her sexual past. Yes, I see red flags here, most of them coming from him.
I would absolutely date someone if they had casual sex right before meeting me if I had reason to believe that it really was just casual and that he didn’t have feelings for her that would interfere with our relationship and if I trusted that now that he was with me the ties to her are broken.
No I am not. Sorry if you read that into my comments but I was in no way implying he should ever have a conversation as such. All I meant was if someone needed to take some time away from a relationship or from me, I would use the time to do some soul searching myself and it wouldn’t be time wasted. And I did just that when my boyfriend broke up with me, the last relationship I had before I met my husband. I took that time to work on myself, to decide what kind of wife I wanted to be and what kind of future marriage I wanted and then I did the self work I needed to do. It wasn’t in any way to try and get the ex back or to prove anything to him, it was to prove to myself I was worthy of all God wanted for me. I knew I wasn’t on the right track, and I had to get right with God again.(Bolding Mine) Of course it’s fine to have that conversation with yourself. But that’s not what you’re talking about doing. You’re saying that he should tell her that she needs to be single for awhile and do some soul searching. If someone thought that they were qualified to make that assessment and decision for me, I would see that as condescending and presumptuous.
I guess I have more sympathy for this girl because my fiance was in her situation when we first started dating. He lied to me from the start about his sexual history, and came clean a couple of months later. Only his lie was that he did have several sexual partners, when in reality he was a virgin. Yes he lied, but I understood why and I understood that being put in a situation of sharing that sort of information can be jarring to someone who feels that they have something to hide and/or that they will be judged by someone that they really like but have not known for very long. I also understood that it wasn’t my business in the first place and his past or lack thereof should not affect our present. Yes, she made a mistake in lying, but because of the circumstances surrounding it I am really leaning on the side of forgiveness.Wait…you think that if someone you were dating had sex “that it really was just casual and that he didn’t have feelings for her” that this is a good thing? No, I don’t think that it’s a good thing, I just don’t see it as a deal breaker if it happened before I even met him! If we were in a relationship at the time it would be different and he would be kicked to the curb. You think that “casual sex” with someone you’ve broken up with is a good portent when it comes to your ability to maintain a lifetime of fidelity within another relationship? You think there is a remote chance that if the tables were turned you ought to be in any hurry to “trust” that his ties to her are broken? I don’t think that anyone should ever be in a hurry to trust in the character, fidelity, etc of a person that they just started dating. In fact I think that one of the most common problems in dating is the willingness that many people have to trust and get serious quickly. Too much commitment too fast is not a good thing. But it’s been 5 months, and only he knows whether or not she’s been trustworthy and if has any reason to think that there are still feelings for her ex. We aren’t qualified to say whether or not she’s completely over him. On what evidence would you trust, when you have such a solid basis on which to withhold trust?I’m not saying that they shouldn’t have a serious talk about honesty, but during the course of this conversation they should also discuss what information the other person has a “right” to and what needs to be respected as private. The person could be in total denial concerning the truth that they are anything but over the last relationship and never will be over the last relationship, and how different would the behavior be? I’m not sure I’m understanding what you’re saying here.
Conversely, you think that a fellow who feels jealousy and anger at knowing he’s considering marriage to someone who believes in the concept of “casual sex” Does she believe in casual sex? Or was this just a one-off mistake that she regrets? Once again, if this was a one-time thing, which it appears to be, we aren’t qualified to say exactly what she “believes in” when it comes to casual sex, or anything else. and keeping her privacy by lying when necessary is a red flag on him? Well, yeah, if he’s been lying about all the casual meaningless sex he’s been out having himself in the last year, sure, but the OP implied no such thing.
Why don’t we contrast that with an alternative: A woman who has had one sexual partner and who will admit it, but who has maintained her continence for a considerable period of time since breaking up with him and looking for someone else who might become a spouse. A woman who says, “I’ve had one sexual partner in my past, but it was over a year ago and I’m not comfortable talking about it except to say that I don’t intend to ever have sex again with a man who is not my husband. I am lucky in that I’ve tested negative for STDs twice since then, but I regret not waiting until I was married.” If you want to stick up for her right to decide not to disclose any other details of her past, fine. You don’t have to disclose even that much, but you do have to be open about what you will and won’t disclose, and not lie about it. We’ll agree to disagree on this paragraph because much of it has been addressed in my previous posts.
Again, even today’s secular casual-sex crowd with some shred of consideration consider it a big no-no to withhold information about how sexually active you’ve been in the last year or so…or the six months before the last time you were tested for STDs, at least. This is particularly true if someone is out having one-night stands. Of course you should be tested for STDs, but beyond that you really aren’t obligated to share the details about how many people, who, why, etc.
She has not “done everything in the relationship right”. She responded to questions she didn’t want to answer by lying. She could be dating a tomcat, and according to the standards of 2013 he has a right to know if she needs to be incubated for medical testing before they start doing what tomcats do. Yeah, an STD test is essential before becoming sexually active with anyone. That’s a no-brainer but it still doesn’t matter the details of why you’re being tested, just that at some point in your life, or since your last test you’ve been sexually active. I’m a big believer in everyone getting tested before becoming sexually intimate. She can respond to his demands by telling him that she has no intention of answering what she considers invasive questions, letting him do what he wants with her refusal to answer his questions, but it is not OK to lie.
I recognize every person is different. Even when I was a non-practicing Catholic, I would never think about doing something like. Sex one night; dating someone else the next. One thing is certain about a person like that is they are not ready to commit to a long-term relationship.I would absolutely date someone if they had casual sex right before meeting me if I had reason to believe that it really was just casual and that he didn’t have feelings for her that would interfere with our relationship and if I trusted that now that he was with me the ties to her are broken.
Hmmm yes is kinda clear that you are viewing this story from a subjective point of view. You are putting yourself in the situation and you are feeling identified with the girl. But don’t forget the OP’s situation needs objective thinking and most people here are looking at this very objectively I.e. iS the girl’s behavior reasonable.I guess I have more sympathy for this girl because my fiance was in her situation when we first started dating. He lied to me from the start about his sexual history, and came clean a couple of months later. Only his lie was that he did have several sexual partners, when in reality he was a virgin. Yes he lied, but I understood why and I understood that being put in a situation of sharing that sort of information can be jarring to someone who feels that they have something to hide and/or that they will be judged by someone that they really like but have not known for very long. I also understood that it wasn’t my business in the first place and his past or lack thereof should not affect our present. Yes, she made a mistake in lying, but because of the circumstances surrounding it I am really leaning on the side of forgiveness.
You dont own her man and you have not even had a first date. Drop the pride if you love and her and want to be with her then suck it up and drive on. Remember women are not here for your control.I met my current girlfriend on an online dating site. I’m 34 years old and joined the site sincerely looking for a relationship that could lead to marriage. I met a amazing woman and we fell for each other so hard. But just three months into the relationship I found out that while she and I were exchanging emails (but before we had met in person) she had flown out of state to see her ex boyfriend (whom she had not seen in six months and had lost her virginity to one year prior) and had sex with him. The truth did not come out at once. First I saw pictures of her (alone) in California. Then the lies untruths started “the trip was in November before we met” “I went to see a friend” “I didn’t have sex with him”. It wasn’t until I demanded the truth that the truth finally came out. I tried to leave her but her crying and apologies made me stay. Now two months later it is still torturing my mind whether to stay with this woman or not. She has treated me so well otherwise and is trying so hard to make the relationship work. But I have so much pride, anger and jealousy built up that I feel I can’t go on. It seems like such a terrible foundation on which to build a relationship that I want to last a lifetime. The day after she had sex with him and flew back to New York, she sent me an email to set up our first date. If it wasn’t for this one transgression I have no doubt that I could make things work long term with her. She is otherwise everything I always wanted.
Please, I need advice and feel I can’t go to my friends or family for fear of making her look bad…
They have been in a relationship for 5 months, I think they’ve had a first date.You dont own her man and you have not even had a first date. Drop the pride if you love and her and want to be with her then suck it up and drive on. Remember women are not here for your control.
I’m actually identifying far more with the OP. Yes, there is a need for objectivity. But when it comes to personal relationships there is a lot of room for subjectivity too. I think most people are judging this girl from the standpoint of someone that they don’t know who has contributed nothing positive. But having been where the OP is and reading the positive ways that he describes her I get that there is a whole lot of good here. If there weren’t he wouldn’t bother asking and just leave. I also know firsthand that even someone who starts off with a lie can turn out to be an honest, loving, and faithful partner. If he does have these strong feelings for her and she has indeed been doing everything she can to prove herself, then it might be best for both of them if after all of this time together he doesn’t judge her by her worst moment. A moment that once again happened before they met and 5 months agoHmmm yes is kinda clear that you are viewing this story from a subjective point of view. You are putting yourself in the situation and you are feeling identified with the girl. But don’t forget the OP’s situation needs objective thinking and most people here are looking at this very objectively I.e. iS the girl’s behavior reasonable.
Don’t make him out to be some kind of a judgmental jerk; that is not fair. He’s looking to marry someone with compatible values. He is by no means holding her to standards different than he expects for himself, nor standards that are unrealistic for a person with a normal allotment of prudence and self-control. It is not uncharitable for him to conclude either that she is not it or that it is yet to be seen if maybe she’s it. He’s not wrong to conclude that it is highly questionable whether she will be a good match, based on what he’s come to know about her.You dont own her man and you have not even had a first date. Drop the pride if you love and her and want to be with her then suck it up and drive on. Remember women are not here for your control.
I completely agree.Lies? Deception? Unchastity?
I would not stay.
I totally understand where you are coming from. However, don’t forget that still you don’t know this girl. Again, she can be faithful and loving but the truth is we don’t know her and there is a 50% chance that she may not. We just don’t know. It seem like there may be a lot of good there but still is hard to tell how accurate that is as they are still in the "honeymoon"state and in reality they don’t know each other well yet. I also know a couple of relationships that started with a lie and turned out honest but I also know many who started with one lie and they ended in awful divorces so in this case is one where they need to know each other better.I’m actually identifying far more with the OP. Yes, there is a need for objectivity. But when it comes to personal relationships there is a lot of room for subjectivity too. I think most people are judging this girl from the standpoint of someone that they don’t know who has contributed nothing positive. But having been where the OP is and reading the positive ways that he describes her I get that there is a whole lot of good here. If there weren’t he wouldn’t bother asking and just leave. I also know firsthand that even someone who starts off with a lie can turn out to be an honest, loving, and faithful partner. If he does have these strong feelings for her and she has indeed been doing everything she can to prove herself, then it might be best for both of them if after all of this time together he doesn’t judge her by her worst moment. A moment that once again happened before they met and 5 months ago
When someone you’re dating is lying about sexual activity that took place immediately before you started dating, I’d say that 50% is an optimistic estimate. Still, very good people have done ill-advised things similar to what she has, and it was essentially a single set of very bad decisions, rather than the two or three it takes to establish a pattern. (This is especially true if the OP has reason to believe that his new interest is telling the truth about having only had one pre-marital partner in her past. If that is true, she has a lot of good track record to her credit, too.)I totally understand where you are coming from. However, don’t forget that still you don’t know this girl. Again, she can be faithful and loving but the truth is we don’t know her and there is a 50% chance that she may not. We just don’t know. It seem like there may be a lot of good there but still is hard to tell how accurate that is as they are still in the "honeymoon"state and in reality they don’t know each other well yet. I also know a couple of relationships that started with a lie and turned out honest but I also know many who started with one lie and they ended in awful divorces so in this case is one where they need to know each other better.