Girlfriend, love, marriage, and the line

[thememphisman]

Some background. My girlfriend and i have been dating for nearly two years now, and we were best friends for years before that… essentially we’ve been together for a very long time, so we know each other very well and have gone through a lot together (from losing my home in a hurricane, all things highschool, and now starting college). We are both 18, very practicing catholics, and are going to separate colleges next year (which is going to be tough). We love each other very much, it is definitely a different love than most other high school relationships we see our friends in, we genuinely desire whats best fore the other (we’re not perfect, but we know we are the happiest when we are self giving to the other).

I feel like we’ve followed all the rules up to this point. We started as friends, then as best friends, now dating. Didnt want to say “i like you”, then said “i like you”, then didnt want to say “i love you” till we meant it, now we say “i love you” and mean it (learning more about love with each new day). We didnt want to even hug very much, then held hands, then hugged, then lightly kissed, then kissed more. And now… I have a question.

Basically, we have gotten to the point in our relationship where we are seriously evaluating if marriage is something we can see ourselves doing. The answer is mostly likely in a few years, once we are really ready. The other night, we were kissing more passionately than usual (something we only recently started doing) and well…i’ve developed a very keen desire to …feel my girlfriend’s breast. I cant control the impulse, well…i mean i did. I did not touch her in anyway, i never want to do anything that would compromise the dignity of my girlfriend…i love her. But this seemed different. It felt like it would be another sign or expression of our love. Just as kissing is for us, an expression of our love, we dont kiss to kiss, but we kiss bc we have something to kiss about. Would this be ok, if it brings pleasure to my girflriend, if it’s not done for me, but for her, bc i love her, or would this be a serious mortal sin or simply a sin to be avoided. I do not know. But just to save time. I already disagree with people who say kissing should be between only married people. I think, and i believe good old John Paul the Great agrees too, that if you just have friendship without passion, its not a complete marriage (from love and responsibilty) How would you know about the passion if you did not wait till later. (I.E. I love my best friend who is also a girl, but i dont have the same romantic feelings for her as i do for my girlfriend)

Thanks for any help.

 

[rachaelgale1]

It seems to me that wanting to touch your girlfriend is more about you than about her. If you really love her you would treat her with love and respect at all times. To wait until marriage is the way God intended, because the sacrament of marriage can only be complete when God is an integral part. By touching and kissing you may place yourselves in a position where you cannot restrain and therefore may commit acts that are mean’t only for marriage.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Basically, we have gotten to the point in our relationship where we are seriously evaluating if marriage is something we can see ourselves doing. The answer is mostly likely in a few years, once we are really ready. The other night, we were kissing more passionately than usual (something we only recently started doing) and well…i’ve developed a very keen desire to …feel my girlfriend’s breast. I cant control the impulse, well…i mean i did. I did not touch her in anyway, i never want to do anything that would compromise the dignity of my girlfriend…i love her. But this seemed different. It felt like it would be another sign or expression of our love. Just as kissing is for us, an expression of our love, we dont kiss to kiss, but we kiss bc we have something to kiss about. Would this be ok, if it brings pleasure to my girflriend, if it’s not done for me, but for her, bc i love her, or would this be a serious mortal sin or simply a sin to be avoided. I do not know. But just to save time. I already disagree with people who say kissing should be between only married people. I think, and i believe good old John Paul the Great agrees too, that if you just have friendship without passion, its not a complete marriage (from love and responsibilty) How would you know about the passion if you did not wait till later.

What gave you the idea that couples who don’t kiss before marriage do it out of a lack of passion? My wife didn’t want us to kiss before marriage, because it drew a very clear line. We had the most passionate courtship I can imagine, though – every bit of contact that we had was charged with desire and restraint. I’m just guessing, but I think JPII would recommend you not kiss passionately, especially considering how far you seem to be from marriage.

 

[Seatuck]

But this seemed different. It felt like it would be another sign or expression of our love

And it will be when you are married. For now it will be a sign of lust. Why don’t you get one of the chastity / purity studies, books, programs whatever from Catholic Answers to help you navigate this transition.

When you love someone you want to help them be the best version of themselves that they can be. That is a chaste person . So you will want to learn to control these impulses. You probably need to dial back on the passionate kissing as well.

 

[SouthrnCatholic]

I went through a similar thing as this with a previous boyfriend of mine. We were not strong enough to resist temptations involving passionate kissing, and because of this it caused lust problems for him which ultimately led to the destruction of our relationship. This is unfortunate considering I was absolutely positive I was meant to marry him and a year later,I and many more mistakes later, I am still not sure that’s not what I’m called to. Unfortunately I cannot at the moment see God’s will in that aspect of my life.
The line for single people-- single meaning unmarried people-- is very clearly drawn at face to face contact. Face to face contact can be anything from kissing the cheek, resting foreheads together, to the simple (and brief) kiss. Anything beyond this is reserved for married couples. I am sure that as a teenager you ought to be familiar with your bases, taught to me as the four F’s. These are bases because they’re going somewhere, and because they’re going somewhere, there’s an end in mind whether we consciously realize it or not. It is because of this end that we are not allowed to participate in basage. I believe mainly it is wrong because it is a perversion of marriage of sorts. Marriage is called to be open and fruitful instead of simply an act or passion, and when you seperate the act and the passion from the fruitfulness you are perverting marriage, even though you don’t think you’re going that far what you’re really doing is just stopping short of where you’re suppose to end up. Granted of course, such activities are reserved for marriage.
I hope this makes sense, sorry if it does not.

 

[Jack17]

Sounds like you two should get married— I don’t believe in marriage until around 22 at the minimum—, but I think you two are meant for each other.

Oh and as long as you’re not having sex before marriage, which this might cause but I believe there’s enough will power to not let that happen, I don’t think it’s so horribly wrong. But if you want your marriage to be ideal one (which I would do the same), waiting may be best for touching her like that.

 

[kristanl]

The more you do with her, the more you will wonder what this feels like and that feels like…
I would say to try not to even kiss passionately…
Save yourselves for marriage, believe me it is well worth it.

 

[kage_ar]

Stop the passionate kissing, it is apparently a near occasion of sin for you or leading you into sin.

Why are you putting off marriage? There is nothing wrong with getting married, living in married dorms in college, working your way through college together and building a life.

 

[ditch]

Go ahead and kiss that girl, you’re young, there is nothing wrong with you, it’s called dating! DO NOT GET MARRIED YOUNG!!! These people are giving you horrible advice suggesting you do so at 18, just because you want sex. Don’t let the catholic guilt control you. Remember, 50-60% of all marriages end in divorce. You need to go to school, get your degree, get a job, travel, enjoy your young life (and yes you can do all of this with your girlfriend). You only get one shot at being young, you’re 20’s are for spreading your wings, finding out who you are. I wouldn’t suggest getting married til you’re 30, making great money, maybe even own a home. You WILL regret getting married young, look around you, thats why there is soooo much divorce.

 

[kage_ar]

. You need to go to school, get your degree, get a job, travel, enjoy your young life (and yes you can do all of this with your girlfriend). You only get one shot at being young, you’re 20’s are for spreading your wings, finding out who you are. I wouldn’t suggest getting married til you’re 30, making great money, maybe even own a home…

Not a one of these things will help get you to heaven - EXCEPT a holy marriage.

You WILL regret getting married young, look around you, thats why there is soooo much divorce.

Proof of this claim?

 

[renepape]

Go ahead and kiss that girl, you’re young, there is nothing wrong with you, it’s called dating! DO NOT GET MARRIED YOUNG!!! These people are giving you horrible advice suggesting you do so at 18, just because you want sex. Don’t let the catholic guilt control you. Remember, 50-60% of all marriages end in divorce. You need to go to school, get your degree, get a job, travel, enjoy your young life (and yes you can do all of this with your girlfriend). You only get one shot at being young, you’re 20’s are for spreading your wings, finding out who you are. I wouldn’t suggest getting married til you’re 30, making great money, maybe even own a home. You WILL regret getting married young, look around you, thats why there is soooo much divorce.

MemphisMan, I must warn you not to follow this advice. It is simply not the case that people are divorced because they marry early. It is because of the selfish motives such as those that “Ditch” advises, that the divorce rate is so high. This “Ditch” here seems to be more interested in making money than anything else. I think he will be only a “ditch” for you.

While I honestly do not feel qualified to give you marriage advice, I think that it would be a good idea to ask the advice of a good priest you know. And no, I don’t think there is anything at all wrong with kissing, but inappropriate touching, such as what you MemphisMan, have described, is certainly crossing the line. I strongly exhort you to seek the advice of a good priest and ask for his help in this matter.

I believe that God will show you the way–as John Paul the Great would say, “Be not afraid!”

 

[tjm190]

In my community, the vast majority of couples married in their early 20’s, right out of college- of the 20 couples i could think of, not a single divorce.

That being said, people are definitely not finished “forming” in their teens, so getting marries before 22 or so could have negative results, given that the person you married may cease to exist/ you may no longer find them interesting.

And how far you go with your girlfriend should be all about your limits and her limits- when you find yourself seriously contemplating sexual relations, you need to back up.

 

[lindsvt88]

memphisman-

I would recommend to you a book by Jason Evert, called “If You Really Loved Me.” He is a great speaker on chastity, love, and all of the boundaries that may come with it, and the reasons why they exist. The book is formatted with all of the common questions about love, dating, marriage, and sex, among other things, in a Catholic relationship. It covers your question, and could help you with some other questions about having a long distance relationship and being in love so young.

Although each relationship is unique, and you seem to have taken things slowly so far, I would be very careful to proceed with caution before touching your girlfriend’s breast or continuing to kiss passionately. Think about it like this: if Jesus were in the room watching you, would you do it and feel comfortable as unmarried young adults? I have made mistakes in this area and you can’t take them back, so be very careful!

 

[godsgurl]

Go ahead and kiss that girl, you’re young, there is nothing wrong with you, it’s called dating! DO NOT GET MARRIED YOUNG!!! These people are giving you horrible advice suggesting you do so at 18, just because you want sex. Don’t let the catholic guilt control you. Remember, 50-60% of all marriages end in divorce. You need to go to school, get your degree, get a job, travel, enjoy your young life (and yes you can do all of this with your girlfriend). You only get one shot at being young, you’re 20’s are for spreading your wings, finding out who you are. I wouldn’t suggest getting married til you’re 30, making great money, maybe even own a home. You WILL regret getting married young, look around you, thats why there is soooo much divorce.

this sort of reckless attitude can get you 2 in LOADS of trouble!! don’t do anything you won’t regret. both you and your girlfriend seem like strong people who want to do the right thing. Both you and your girlfriend will deeply regret pushing your limits later. don’t do anything you wouldn’t do in front of your parents!! and dont let people tell you what to do in regards to marriage. while we all have our own personal views on young marriage, pray and do what god asks of you. NO ONe can tell you that except yourself…besides you were asking about passionate kissing, and 2nd base…NOT about whether you should propose…ninjacloak.com/index.php/1010110A/f83ddc9d9070a73de21474d361978742791edc8c7ef1d0522a17101efb03f3df131721a0ab2ed75f97db608243690af5ea17664

 

[ditch]

It’s really stupid to say “don’t do anything you wouldn’t do in front of your parents,” because NO ONE would have sex etc. in front of their parents even if you were a married couple. Most normal people would agree sex is a private thing - if you’re not mature enough 2 talk with your girl about this - then you’re not mature enough to have sex. Don’t ask your priest - he has no life experience with this.

And no, money isn’t all I’m interested in. A lot of divorces happen because of money problems. Go to school, get an education, get a good paying job instead of getting married young- you will be ahead. This is great advice the church isn’t gonna give. Not a lot of people on this forum will tell you that marriage is hard, the truth is - it is! It’s a full time job, especially when the honeymoon phase is over. You cannot live off of love forever - one should think long & hard before getting married at all.

 

[renepape]

It’s really stupid to say “don’t do anything you wouldn’t do in front of your parents,” because NO ONE would have sex etc. in front of their parents even if you were a married couple. Most normal people would agree sex is a private thing - if you’re not mature enough 2 talk with your girl about this - then you’re not mature enough to have sex. Don’t ask your priest - he has no life experience with this.

And no, money isn’t all I’m interested in. A lot of divorces happen because of money problems. Go to school, get an education, get a good paying job instead of getting married young- you will be ahead. This is great advice the church isn’t gonna give. Not a lot of people on this forum will tell you that marriage is hard, the truth is - it is! It’s a full time job, especially when the honeymoon phase is over. You cannot live off of love forever - one should think long & hard before getting married at all.

So I guess you do have lots of life-experience in this? Do you think you are more qualified than a priest to give marriage advice? Of course you should think hard about getting married. And of course marriage can be very difficult (that’s why the vow is “in good times and in bad”). I don’t know why you think you know better than the Church–furthermore, the Church does not say you shouldn’t go to school, get an education, and get a good job. But we cannot just have sex because we feel like it–sex is meant to be inside of marriage. Do you see the result of all this sex outside of marriage that became so prevalent in the '60s and '70s? AIDS and STDs. I don’t think the path of promiscuity is one that is easy to break away from.

And re a previous poster, I think you meant don’t do anything you WILL regret, not that you WON’T regret.

 

[ditch]

So I guess you do have lots of life-experience in this? Do you think you are more qualified than a priest to give marriage advice? Of course you should think hard about getting married. And of course marriage can be very difficult (that’s why the vow is “in good times and in bad”). I don’t know why you think you know better than the Church–furthermore, the Church does not say you shouldn’t go to school, get an education, and get a good job. But we cannot just have sex because we feel like it–sex is meant to be inside of marriage. Do you see the result of all this sex outside of marriage that became so prevalent in the '60s and '70s? AIDS and STDs. I don’t think the path of promiscuity is one that is easy to break away from.

I am more qualified than a priest who has never been married, I’ve been for 10 years. Gods law & church law are 2 very different things sometimes, I choose Gods law.

How can one achieve a degree, a great job etc. if one gets married at 20, gets his wife pregnant etc. The priorities now change, might now finish school, less money, more hardship. Especially if you are getting married only so you can have sex. btw, No one is teaching promiscuity here.

 

[kage_ar]

It’s really stupid to say “don’t do anything you wouldn’t do in front of your parents,” because NO ONE would have sex etc. in front of their parents even if you were a married couple.

You are misstating what was said.

Two unmarried people are not permitted to do anything to/with each other that they would not do in front of the whole world. Those things ARE private, and are reserved only for grown up married people.

 

[tjm190]

Two unmarried people are not permitted to do anything to/with each other that they would not do in front of the whole world.

I’m curious here- assuming no scriptural basis, where does the CCC make that claim?

 

[kage_ar]

I’m curious here- assuming no scriptural basis, where does the CCC make that claim?

That is just plain ole modesty and virtue, aka common sense.