Girls as alter servers

[mrs_abbott]

Well said.

Jakub:

On March 15, 1994 the decision to allow altar girls was made after 1,994 years of tradition. Even in 1980 they were forbidden…

This sad decision was made to counter certain French & German Bishops with ideas of the promulgation of women’s ordinations…but please read;
adoremus.org/0302Altargirls.html

Was it a mistake…yes…were there others…yes…there are too many people worrying about offending other people…but have no problem offending God.

james

 

[Honoria20]

BlackKnight:

…
Altar servers were not the reason that we had more or less callings to the priesthood. The fact is that Catholics stopped encouraging faithful Catholic young men to even consider it. It was a sin of complacency that led us to the current problems, but I believe that that is beginning to turn around and will continue to do so because God is doing something powerful in His church.

Priests are not the only need within the church. We need more faithful Nuns and other orders as well. If the Holy Spirit uses their altar service as a conduit of grace that leads them to a religious vocation, then the tree was good because the fruit is.

I could not agree with you more.

 

[AltarMan]

Jakub:

On March 15, 1994 the decision to allow altar girls was made after 1,994 years of tradition. Even in 1980 they were forbidden…

This sad decision was made to counter certain French & German Bishops with ideas of the promulgation of women’s ordinations…but please read;
adoremus.org/0302Altargirls.html

Was it a mistake…yes…were there others…yes…there are too many people worrying about offending other people…but have no problem offending God.

james

Yes…

It’s creepy to see how PCism and sexism/feminism are placed ahead of what is beneficial to the Church because they benefit individuals…

 

[BlackKnight]

From “This Rock” Magazine
Q: I saw a quote from Pope Benedict XIV condemning women serving at the altar as an “evil practice” and citing Pope Gelasius and Pope Innocent IV in support of this (cf. Benedict’s encyclical Allatae Sunt). Should the modern Church really be allowing women to serve as altar servers and other liturgical roles when these past popes have condemned it?

A: There are two kinds of evil acts: those that are intrinsically evil, meaning they are evil always and everywhere, and those that are extrinsically evil, meaning that they are evil under particular circumstances, due to evil effects that would result under those circumstances, but would not be evil under other circumstances.

For women serving at the altar to be to be intrinsically evil, it would effectively have to be a matter of divine institution, a point of faith handed down from the apostles. However, there is no reason to think that the gender of altar servers—or even the existence of altar servers—has been passed down from the apostles as a matter of faith. Therefore, it falls under the Church’s legislative power, meaning that the pope can establish or reconfigure the rules on it according to what he thinks is best suited to the present…"

Political Correctness has diddly to do with it.

 

[adrift]

Part of Redemptionis Sacramentum was quoted I thought it would be nice to post the entire paragraph

[47.] It is altogether laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension.[119] Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these.[120] Associations for them, including also the participation and assistance of their parents, should be established or promoted, and in such a way greater pastoral care will be provided for the ministers. Whenever such associations are international in nature, it pertains to the competence of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments to establish them or to approve and revise their statutes.[121] Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.[122]

 

[Jakub]

Discretion of the diocese Bishop & in observance of the established norms = pass the buck of responsibility and to heck with traditions…if you will check the Churches in Italy and many other places outside the US you will not find altar girls etc…

if someone seeks altar girls, inclusive text etc just take a peek at the same confusion ,destructiveness and PCness that is alive and well over at the Episcopal/Anglican Church, sorta resembles the state of the Catholic Church.

I try to use my God given common sense…if Rome issues a instruction that the sky is green do you believe and follow…?

james

 

[Jakub]

After further thought, I wonder why + Pope John Paul II of blessed memory, did not use the base thought of his Apostolic letter Ordinato Sacerdotalis(Priesthood-Ordination of Women) for addressing other issues such as altar girls etc…interesting…

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2ORDIN.HTM

james

 

[AltarMan]

Jakub:

After further thought, I wonder why + Pope John Paul II of blessed memory, did not use the base thought of his Apostolic letter Ordinato Sacerdotalis(Priesthood-Ordination of Women) for addressing other issues such as altar girls etc…interesting…

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2ORDIN.HTM

james

For all his greatness (and I sincerely mean that), and for all the magnificent things he did for the Church and society in general, Pope John Paul II wasn’t very good at either confrontation or follow-through.

While I think many things would be far better if he had actually followed through more thoroughly by confronting some of the horrible liturgical abuses that exist today, he wouldn’t have been so beloved, and that may have hampered his ability to do the truly big things (contributing to the end of USSR, etc.) that he did.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

This seems like a lot of hoo ha about an issue that will become moot at some future date. Girl altar boys will, eventually, be supressed by the Church. This is very simple. A discipline that is altered in order to regularize a widespread abuse will eventually be restored. It is as inevitable as the sun rising.

It would do little good, however, for the Holy Father, at this point in history, to suppress girl altar boys. Because that directive would be widely ignored by prideful bishops, priests and laity who think they know better than the Vicar of Christ.

At some point, we will again have a huge number of faithful clergy and laity and the Holy Father will be able to suppress girl altar boys if, by that time, they haven’t already ceased to be used anyway.

And you there skulking in the back…yes, you Communion in the Hand…your days are numbered too.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Catholics are not bound in conscience to agree with the wisdom of the legislative changes a pope makes (though they are required to obey them), so one is free to think that perhaps it would be better if today we did not have female altar servers. That doesn’t affect the pope’s authority to extend permission for this practice.

Amen. Popes have made bad discipilinary decissions in the past (like the suppression of the Jesuits by Clement XIV) but eventually things are sorted out.

It seems like a lot of hoo ha about an issue that will become moot at some future date. Girl altar boys will, eventually, be supressed by the Church. This is very simple. A discipline that is altered in order to regularize a widespread abuse will eventually be restored. It is as inevitable as the sun rising.

Amen to that as well.

 

[MrS]

Dr. Bombay:

This seems like a lot of hoo ha about an issue that will become moot at some future date. Girl altar boys will, eventually, be supressed by the Church. This is very simple. A discipline that is altered in order to regularize a widespread abuse will eventually be restored. It is as inevitable as the sun rising.

It would do little good, however, for the Holy Father, at this point in history, to suppress girl altar boys. Because that directive would be widely ignored by prideful bishops, priests and laity who think they know better than the Vicar of Christ.

At some point, we will again have a huge number of faithful clergy and laity and the Holy Father will be able to suppress girl altar boys if, by that time, they haven’t already ceased to be used anyway.

And you there skulking in the back…yes, you Communion in the Hand…your days are numbered too.

where you been doc? … in surgery?..

Missed your gentle use of the Kings’ English.

Need your (name removed by moderator)ut and support to get back to the King-of-Kings english…
reverence… chant… silence… adoration
tradition… piety… and so on…

 

[paramedicgirl]

Dr. Bombay:

This seems like a lot of hoo ha about an issue that will become moot at some future date. Girl altar boys will, eventually, be supressed by the Church. This is very simple. A discipline that is altered in order to regularize a widespread abuse will eventually be restored. It is as inevitable as the sun rising.

It would do little good, however, for the Holy Father, at this point in history, to suppress girl altar boys. Because that directive would be widely ignored by prideful bishops, priests and laity who think they know better than the Vicar of Christ.

At some point, we will again have a huge number of faithful clergy and laity and the Holy Father will be able to suppress girl altar boys if, by that time, they haven’t already ceased to be used anyway.

And you there skulking in the back…yes, you Communion in the Hand…your days are numbered too.

I certainly hope you are right on all these issues. Probably won’t happen in our life times, though, at least some of us! A lifetime for us is just a moment in time for the Church.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

MrS:

where you been doc? … in surgery?..

Missed your gentle use of the Kings’ English.

Need your (name removed by moderator)ut and support to get back to the King-of-Kings english…
reverence… chant… silence… adoration
tradition… piety… and so on…

Oh, I could be discerning. Ya never know. Toward that end, I’ve been debating the best way to convince the young ladies of my future parish that laundering the altar linens is a much more noble calling than being an altar server. I could throw in vacuuming the sanctuary as an extra carrot, but I wouldn’t want to be accused of being a misogynist.

Oh, well. I’ve got a few years to work on it.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

paramedicgirl:

I certainly hope you are right on all these issues. Probably won’t happen in our life times, though, at least some of us! A lifetime for us is just a moment in time for the Church.

I agree, it probably won’t happen in our lifetime. However, remember the uber Catholics (orthodox, traditional, conservative, faithful, whatever you call them) are having 5, 6, 7 or more kids. And when those boys grow up and start pursuing their vocations, we’ll have a boatload of great priests and, eventually bishops. The cafeteria types aren’t really contributing that many vocations. Simple attrition will take care of the dissenting Church. They’ll have contracepted themselves right out of existense. Deo gratias.

 

[netmilsmom]

Dr. Bombay:

Toward that end, I’ve been debating the best way to convince the young ladies of my future parish that laundering the altar linens is a much more noble calling than being an altar server. I could throw in vacuuming the sanctuary as an extra carrot, but I wouldn’t want to be accused of being a misogynist.

Well, if one is not given the proper instructions on Altar Linens (like me) they would each have the only washing machine in town that has Jesus in it!!!

 

[Catholic2003]

Dr. Bombay:

This seems like a lot of hoo ha about an issue that will become moot at some future date. Girl altar boys will, eventually, be supressed by the Church. This is very simple. A discipline that is altered in order to regularize a widespread abuse will eventually be restored. It is as inevitable as the sun rising.

Confession started out as a widespread abuse. From the council of Toledo in 589:

We have learned that in some of the churches in Spain the faithful are doing penance not in accordance with the canonical rule but in another detestable way, that is, they ask a priest to grant them pardon as many times as it pleases them to sin. We wish to put an end to this abominable presumption, and accordingly this sacred council declares that penances should be given in the manner prescribed by the ancient canons.

I have a feeling that the Church will be returning to the old Order of Penitents before any supression of female altar servers occurs.

 

[mikew262]

Does anybody really think that God cares about this? Sheesh!

I think he would say, “C’mon folks, FOCUS! Whether girls are alter servers or not is a non-issue. There are alot bigger fish to fry out there.”

 

[Ace86]

ComradeAndrei:

cont…

Just to be clear, the two Dioceses that do not allow female altar servers are the Diocese of Lincoln and the Diocese of Arlington.

I found an interesting article on the net that I’m going to quote out of and post the link so you all can read it for yourselves.

You can read the whole thing here-
totustuus.com/girlservers.htm

Agreed!

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Confession started out as a widespread abuse. From the council of Toledo in 589:

Do you mean auricular confession?

From the fourth century auricular confession has been the prevailing method of the Church.

catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd00892.htm

Again, as to altar girls, I really don’t see the problem with sticking to the traditional way even though the Church “allows” it. We do not profit from doing the bare minimum or playing technicalities. It seems to me that the more traditional parishes and dioceses are really making headway in important matters like in vocations and orthodox formation of their people, while liberal parishes and dioceses may have money or numbers but do not bear fruit.

 

[AltarMan]

mikew262:

Does anybody really think that God cares about this? Sheesh!

I think he would say, “C’mon folks, FOCUS! Whether girls are alter servers or not is a non-issue. There are alot bigger fish to fry out there.”

And your comment added value in what way? Female alter (sic) servers is not a “non-issue” – although it sounds like you wish it were…