Girls over 10 or 12 years are eligible for marriage

[R_not]

Salaam/ Peace

who is Aunt Gemina ?

then bash Muslims , why put blame on Islam ?

O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary **live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. **If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good. ( Chapter Women/ An-Nisa 4:19)

If your holy book approves it , then it’s forever .

huh …before asking the man , Imam/ Kazi ( a religious person who conducts the marriage ) asks permission from the bride . If she says yes , then he goes to bridegroom.

Aunt Jemima is a stereotype that Americans used for black women. Although she was to mean a sweet, docile peace-loving black woman she was seen as demeaning to the black people - Jemima was an obese, darkly pigmented, broad-bosomed, handkerchief-headed, gingham-dressed, elderly servant content in her subjugation.

She is depicted on a popular pancake mix box. Throughout the years the image has changed and today she is depicted as a modern, young black woman.

Why put the blame on islam? Because islam keeps backward life styles in place with their sharia laws which allow no change/votes from the subjugated peoples, or women; and very little if any change from the muslim males.

Sharia laws are based on your koran and you assume that because our Bible has something in it, that we do not change. Our Bible does not command us to do things that the koran does such as stone women, kill others who are not of the Bible, marry children, etc while the koran does. The Bible tells us history of those things while the koran commands those things of its followers.

If those things were done by the followers of the Bible those people were not following the Bible or the example of Jesus, but were bad people. The followers of the koran who do such things are indeed following the koran and the example of mohammed. Look at the riots over Israel/Gaza! So many peaceful ones showed us that islam is not peaceful with their waving Hamas flags, yelling such things as ‘back to the ovens’, ‘Hitler didn’t do his job’, attacking Jews, etc and posts such as yours that defend the indefensible - marrying children to old perverts.

You show us passages out of the koran to prove your point but what you and other ‘peaceful’ ones never do is show that to the ones who are the perverts marrying young children against their wills. A child has no choice but to say yes and you know that as well as I do.

So many in your own area kidnap Hindu girls and force them to convert and marry muslim males (which is rape and forced conversions) which the koran says should not be done - well, the forced conversions at least. mohammed did indeed condone rape with those women that were taken as slaves in all his battles.

I think that what you are trying to do is try to convince us of something that you should be telling your fellow muslims to do. When you do that then you might get some listeners. All I see is you trying to convince us and when the riots start - people like you are right along with the ones that you tell us are distorting islam. In fact, you are proving to me that I am totally correct about islam - the peaceful ones tell us one thing and do another.

So this is why I find your assertions rather lame.

 

[chrisse]

Salaam/ Peace

who is Aunt Gemina ?

then bash Muslims , why put blame on Islam ?

O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary **live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. **If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good. ( Chapter Women/ An-Nisa 4:19)

If your holy book approves it , then it’s forever .

huh …before asking the man , Imam/ Kazi ( a religious person who conducts the marriage ) asks permission from the bride . If she says yes , then he goes to bridegroom.

Aunt Gemina : during the revolt against slavery there were African American men and women who supported their current state of slavery; this was an ongoing theme in the fight against slavery and then the discrimination up until the 1960s. They were known as Uncle Toms and Aunt Gemina’s respectively.

Why put the blame on Islam? Because Islam is the doctrine that is the basis of the Islamic Supremist ideology and its subsequent abuse of human beings, both muslim and non-muslim. This abuse has lasted 1400 years. I do not subcribe to the current popular historical analysts who write history by narrative, and when the historical facts do not support their narrative they present their narrative as historical fact. Islam has always been a supremist, warrior and slave ideology with only small pockets of individual rulers who could be called moderate.

Islam’s borders have always been bloody borders with razias into neighbouring countries to slaughter and enslave.

You are either ignorant of the truth of Islam’s historical record, or you are fully aware and choose to lie about it. I do not accept ignorance as an excuse in this day and age.

1 in 10 Christians are living in persecution, most of these are in Islamic majority countries. That OFFENDS me and I will continue to speak out against the Islamic Supremist ideology.

The OIC (Organisation of Islamic Conference) has succeeded in destroying the UN General Assembly, and the human rights arm of the UN. The OIC has it’s own version of the Human Rights Declaration based on Shariah / Allah’s laws.

The OIC has just had passsed a resolution introducing blasphemy as a hate crime at the UN. Fortunately, Western nations voted against it. But the OIC block is very large. With this resolution they can further persecute Christians and all non-muslims.

I repeat, ignorance of the truth of your geo-political supremist ideology preferring to pretend it is simply a “religion”, is not an excuse.

 

[survive]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

forced marriage is not allowed in Islam .

No comments about Jewish holy book’s allowing 3 years old girl’s marriage ?

There have been many comments on that absurd allegation, all of which you have dismissed.

 

[chrisse]

On Uncle Tom/Aunt Gemina I agree with you; however the words have evolved nevertheless with this meaning in the popular cultural lexicon.

The muslims who respond here on CAF also seem to miss the point that we are talking about Islamic shariah law - allah’s laws given to mohammet in the 7th Century that have always existed and always will, rather than purely cultural developments which can and do change, which people themselves can and do influence for better or worse using their G-d given free will and conscience. As Christians, in general here, it is our duty to use our free will and conscience to influence society and civil law along Christian principles and thereby the influence is for the good of mankind. (Of course, this could be a whole other topic).

 

[jakasaki]

No, no, no… I cannot believe what I just read! If that is true I pray that muslim woman never ever gives birth. Ever!

 

[R_not]

Wow, that is one of the saddest things that I have read but I am not surprised to read it. I have listened to videos of muslim women stating they will give their children to allah (to blow themselves up, or die trying to kill infidels). I have listened to a radio program of a Palestinian ex-muslim (ex-PLO), Walid Shoebat, who says the whole community celebrates when one of these children dies while killing infidels.

All we are is getting proof, again, from muslim woman of what islam is all about. hatred, death, and eternal war.

Walid Shoebat Shoebat’s experiences with what he was taught in islam..
Select the program that says, Talking It Over, PART 1 December 13, 2008.

What we are hearing from muslim woman is that her society that islam has created wouldn’t tolerate a child out of wedlock. So, she would have no choice to do what she would do and it is easier to convince oneself that is what one wants rather than to question it, or go against it. Because then she would be subject to beatings and/or death instead of her daughter(s).

And when you start letting sharia laws into your country - this is only the start of letting in the rest of it. sharia laws are the ultimate human rights abuses. Some man made laws that are said to be fashioned after a god that wants one to be a slave - and treated like the worst slave master one could imagine.

 

[Ruthie]

I wrote:

The case mentioned by jakasaki, where a divorce was not

granted to an 8 year old girl, married by her father to a 58 year old man, was in a Saudi court. Is Unayzah not in Saudi Arabia? If this is contrary to Shari’ah, why did not the judge grant the divorce, and reprimand the girl’s father?

MW replied,

Sorry but I don’t really know the specifics of the case.

Nice way of evading my question. You and Sister Amy are good at that. I’ll change my wording.

If a father forcing his 8 year old daughter to marry a 58 year old man is contrary to Shari’ah, shouldn’t such a girl be granted a divorce?

Especially since you said, "forced marriage is not allowed in Islam."

Let’s have a straight answer for once. No evasions or changing the subject.

And you asked,

No comments about Jewish holy book’s allowing 3 years old girl’s marriage ?

I guess you missed post # 25 by Kanichen, pointing out that the site you got that information from is anti-semitic in the extreme. K also pointed you to this website for the truth, but you didn’t read it.

I have tried to hold on to my respect for you, but it is gone. All we get from you is evasions, excuses, and justification for immoral acts such as stoning, suicide bombers, sexual abuse and pedophilia.

I pray that God brings you face to face with the truth.

Ruthie

 

[R_not]

I wrote:

MW replied,

Nice way of evading my question. You and Sister Amy are good at that. I’ll change my wording.

If a father forcing his 8 year old daughter to marry a 58 year old man is contrary to Shari’ah, shouldn’t such a girl be granted a divorce?

Especially since you said, "forced marriage is not allowed in Islam."

Let’s have a straight answer for once. No evasions or changing the subject.

And you asked,

I guess you missed post # 25 by Kanichen, pointing out that the site you got that information from is anti-semitic in the extreme. K also pointed you to this website for the truth, but you didn’t read it.

I have tried to hold on to my respect for you, but it is gone. All we get from you is evasions, excuses, and justification for immoral acts such as stoning, suicide bombers, sexual abuse and pedophilia.

I pray that God brings you face to face with the truth.

Ruthie

None of the muslims on these threads will read the websites we post. I post for the others though. If I really want to put it to their faces, I will quote from the websites I post.

This is basically what I have been told by all of them. They only read from muslims accepted websites and from what I gather from the continual repetition of their assertions - they don’t read, or retain, our posts too much either. they are on a mission - to do da’wa - and that is it. The ‘call to islam’. They ignore anything they don’t want to deal with and quite often deflect, accuse us of being bad Christians/Catholics, etc for questioning islam. It doesn’t phase me anymore. It is not a sin to do such a thing and it is certainly a sin to worship another god, allah, since I do not believe it is the God of Israel.

With a little research all one has to do is discover the pagan roots of allah - and also figure out that mohammed took his pagan god and made it into an alter ego of himself. A god that changed its mind quite often! And didn’t know too much about the workings of the Universe. I won’t go into that here, but it gets interesting.

One even openly admitted to another poster that she wanted us to say the phrase that would make us a muslim. That was in 2008 on a different thread, but it was admitted to by one of the muslims we read posts from often on these threads.

That is one phrase that I don’t even like to write.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

I am in an advanced cultural study class at school. Most cultures themsleves such as a specific country marry their children as soon as they hit puberty. Children in other countries mature alot faster than most american and european children. I do think however that the child in question should know what is going on and have full knowladge of what they are doing.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

Arranged Marriages in Islam

…As regards the concept of consent, it is very essential in the Islamic marriage. … When a girl reported that her father had forced her to marry without her consent, the Prophet (peace be upon him) gave her the choice, either to accept the marriage or to choose to invalidate it.

… In another version of this hadith, the girl said “Actually I accept this marriage but I wanted to let women know that parents have no right (to force a husband on them.)”

In another hadith, the Prophet made clear that ladies should not be married without being consulted first. Abu Hurairah quoted the Prophet as saying, “A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her, and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission.”

… according to the teachings of Islam, the female has the right to have a say in marriage proposals she receives.

readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164545966081&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/ Peace

Ruthie: MW replied, Sorry but I don’t really know the specifics of the case.

I don’t know the case but don’t remember writing this sentence. Can u quote my post/mention post no ?

Ruthie: If a father forcing his 8 year old daughter to marry a 58 year old man is contrary to Shari’ah, shouldn’t such a girl be granted a divorce?

Of Course . First of all , no father should force his daughter to marry anybody.

K also pointed you to this website for the truth, but you didn’t read it.

A Jew is telling early marriage after 3 is allowed , another one is claiming it’s not true. So , whom to beleive ? Anybody read that specific holy book ?

jakasaki: I pray that muslim woman never ever gives birth. Ever!

what a nice prayer , thanks .

 

[R_not]

I am in an advanced cultural study class at school. Most cultures themsleves such as a specific country marry their children as soon as they hit puberty. Children in other countries mature alot faster than most american and european children. I do think however that the child in question should know what is going on and have full knowladge of what they are doing.

Defending their behavior is really beyond words. a child is NOT developed and does NOT know fully what is going on. And these children do not have a choice in all of this! Neither do the slaves that the muslims still gather for their slave trades that also still go on to this day. Slavery in islam

You won’t hear this from your ‘peaceful’ muslims, or the MSA that is in the schools.

And since you are in school, maybe you should be aware of what the muslims are bringing to our colleges - the MSA (muslim student association) that has direct ties to the muslim brotherhood.

Brigette goes into this a bit in her speech to the Thomas More Law Center, but here are all the docs of what is allowed into our colleges.

Brigette Gabriel’s talk at the Thomas More Law Center

They do not migrate with the intention of assimilation - they intend to become the dominate ones and ones like Geert Wilders has been trying to warn Europe. I have already listed books and a free video for you. Here is the muslim brotherhood’s stated goals and their use of organizations such as the MSA in our schools - they did not publish the doc they found but here is a writeup:
Government Exhibit 300-0085

here is a doc they found in Europe of the muslim brotherhood’s goals - it is basically the same sort of thing in our country. And they are organized and have stated goals that we are not listening to.

Here is information on the Muslim Brotherhood’s ‘The Project’ - an article about how/when this information was found:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={67736123-6864-4205-B51E-BCBDEF45FCDE}

Here is part two of the article which has “The Project”'s document in full:
frontpagemag.com/articles/Read.aspx?GUID=61829F93-7A81-4654-A2E8-F0A5E6DD3DC4

 

[Kaninchen]

A Jew is telling early marriage after 3 is allowed , another one is claiming it’s not true. So , whom to beleive ? Anybody read that specific holy book ?

Of course, being a wicked, wicked Jew (who has spent an awful lot of time on CAF defending Muslims, by the way, but I expect that, to your mind, is part of an evil Jewish plot) I couldn’t be anything but wrong, could I?

What’s hilarious to me, Muslim Woman, is that you linked to the site of a notorious racist and neo-Nazi organization. Neo-Nazis, if they had the opportunity, would put us in the same gas chamber and burn our bodies up the same chimney - me for being a ‘kike’ and you for being a racial ‘mud person’.

You have a lot to learn.

 

[R_not]

A Jew is telling early marriage after 3 is allowed , another one is claiming it’s not true. So , whom to beleive ? Anybody read that specific holy book ?

Well, not you since it is obvious you haven’t read it and are just telling us a bunch of bunk to denigrate the Jews.

There have been so many people writing to you that the things that you claim the Jews are doing haven’t been done for millenia. While that is not true in islam.

Here is the quote from the website that was given to us to read about your false assertion:

Sanhedrin 55b . “A Jew may marry a three year old girl. (specifically, three years “and a day” old)”. Sanhedrin 54b . “A Jew may have sex with a child as long as that child is over nine years old”.[5]
These quotes do not appear anywhere therein the Sanhedrin 54-55 folios, it’s false representation.

The discussions of the sources, amongst others, relates to the dowry for virgins and non-virgins.

The Talmud context reflects that a sexual act between a male adult and a female under the age of three is not considered a loss of virginity. Since the girl is too young for her hyman to be broken, she is still considered a virgin. But again, nowhere does the Talmud permit such behavior.

If you look at the writings of Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Ishut 1:4, Hilchot Na’arah Betulah 2:17; Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 26:1, 177:5 for example, as is this obviously a case of child abuse, the Talmud is only discussing the ex post facto what might happen with the sanctity of virginity if such a case occured.

So, basically what they are saying is that if a child was sexually abused she is still considered a virgin.

And as for divorce in islam, that is another story. Some are granted and some are not - it depends on the man who is the judge in the case - does it not? We have read articles where children were not given divorces and they had to stay with their abuser.

Saudi court rejects child’s request for divorce

But here we have a case where a brave mother tries to block a marriage made between an old geezer and her father. The article goes into the fact that there are other cases in the courts like this one.

 

[inJESUS]

2 days ago we had an episode on tv about girls marriage in the Islamic world and it is heart breaking what is going on to these kids. One of them from Yemen said she is 10 years old divorced woman who was married to an “elderly” man of 30. She said am a child, i want to play and go to school, i feel am a kid, not an adult “woman” and said she refuses to marry again and will become an attorney to defend the right of kids to live their childhood. Of course there were children right organizations and psychologists saying what happens to kids who get married very early, criticizing the same saudi article quoted by the OP. There have been phone calls from SA against these practices. All in all, if Muslims think Aisha was an “ideal” example of a child married at 9 who understood what marriage and sex and responsibility is, they must realize that this isn’t 7th century sahara arabia anymore and that Muhammad’s example cannot be emulated at all times and that it resulted in more damage than good since too many girls have been and are traumatized in the past and now.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/ Peace

… it is heart breaking what is going on to these kids.

this is a cultural problem & against Islam . There is no verse in Quran that says u must give your daughter in to marraige before 9 or 10 . On the contradictory , forced marriage is not allowed in Islam .

.

… Muhammad’s example cannot be emulated at all times .

Prophet Muhammed (p) first married a twice widowed elderly lady & did not take any other wife as long as she was alive . Second wife was a widow or divorced helpless lady. Some of his wives were with kids of previous marriages.

It’s sad that now a days , most Muslim men don’t want to marry any widow or divorced with kids & take their responsibilities. It’s not a must for any man to have any young wife or more than one wife . Also , forced marriage is not allowed in Islam. So , what some Muslims are doing ( forcing women in to marriages ) is a sin in Islam . So , bash Muslims but please don’t put blame on Islam because of some bad Muslims.

 

[R_not]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/ Peace

this is a cultural problem & against Islam . There is no verse in Quran that says u must give your daughter in to marraige before 9 or 10 . On the contradictory , forced marriage is not allowed in Islam .

.

Prophet Muhammed (p) first married a twice widowed elderly lady & did not take any other wife as long as she was alive . Second wife was a widow or divorced helpless lady. Some of his wives were with kids of previous marriages.

It’s sad that now a days , most Muslim men don’t want to marry any widow or divorced with kids & take their responsibilities. It’s not a must for any man to have any young wife or more than one wife . Also , forced marriage is not allowed in Islam. So , what some Muslims are doing ( forcing women in to marriages ) is a sin in Islam . So , bash Muslims but please don’t put blame on Islam because of some bad Muslims.

And I have seen time and again that you say this sort of thing ‘it is not allowed in islam’ and when problems happen - the muslims such as yourself will take the side of the offenders. The latest was in the Israel/Gaza battle where the muslims not only waved the hamas flag, but would attack Jews around this globe.

I have seen this ‘it is not allowed in islam’ phrase when applied to the ‘honor killings’, clitoral circumscision, etc - and here is the whole problem - SHARIA LAWS ALLOW ALL OF THIS. Sharia law doesn’t give a whip about the women and children of islam. It gives even less of a whip about non-muslims and NO ONE CHANGES THESE LAWS.

So, you can keep on saying that ‘it is not allowed in islam’ but it seems that muslims all over this globe - no matter what country they are from - all practice these abhorrant things and they do it because either Sharia laws OR because they are trying to emulate mohammed. They think that he is the perfect man and if he married a child and was a pediphile - then it is ok for them to be one too and marry a child.

No laws will protect the children in these cases. No laws protect the slaves. Hardly anyone even speaks about it. Hardly anyone speaks out about the child abuse in islam as hardly anyone speaks out about the abuse of non-muslims in muslim lands. Oh, people like Brigette Gabriel, Walid Shoebat, Walid Phares, Mr. SPencer, etc speak out - and if the people don’t like the message they start bashing the messanger. And these people have to have either 24 hour guard or live in hiding and no one ever brings that out on how their treatment by muslims have affected their lives. Oh, those ‘peaceful’ ones - yeah, right and I got a bridge to sell you…

Video of Brigette Gabriel from Thomas More Law Center (page down)

How often have we seen muslim caricatures of Jews, or Jews that have been killed/beaten during or after the Israeli/Gaza conflict, or Jews that were refused service, etc and no Jews went out and killed or beat up muslims. Not one of them went out and destroyed a mosque.

Instead of ‘peaceful’ or ‘moderate’ I will start calling those who only use deception, the ‘silent, deceptive ones’. They should be proud of that since they are following the koran!

intentionally deceiving us to know the koran: 6:25 6:110 17:45-76
Its Bukhari b9, v86, n101 mohammad: “Silence is consent.”

 

[Sam_777]

Of course, being a wicked, wicked Jew (who has spent an awful lot of time on CAF defending Muslims, by the way, but I expect that, to your mind, is part of an evil Jewish plot) I couldn’t be anything but wrong, could I?

:console: