Girls "tempting" boys

[whatevergirl]

I have a 16 yr old son, and he is very respectful of girls. I think it’s how a kid is raised, that makes the most difference. It is important to instill values. I also know that girls can be the aggressors…we’re not in the 1800’s anymore. They are quite aggressive…and largely, because many of them lack a dad at home, so they are wanting so much to find love through a boy at school. It’s sad when I see it. I can point out a girl anywhere, who is lacking the love she needs at home, by how attached she gets to boys at school. My son does not want to be attached right now. lol He said …‘plus, I’m not driving…mom. It’s not like I can take a girl out on my bike.’

But having a boy AND a girl…I can see both sides. There are plenty of great teenage boys out there, who are involved in sports, stay out of trouble, and are respectful of girls. I am raising one.

It kinda bugs me when there seems to be this stereotype of teenage boys…and teenage girls are all saints. Riiight. lol

 

[whatevergirl]

LOL. Too funny.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I, too, have a beautiful teenage daughter (who, by the way, dresses very modestly).

My standard reply to any young man who expresses interest in my daughter is:

Just watch your step. I may look like an overweight middle-aged has-been, but I have a shotgun, a shovel and two acres of yard in back. If you break my little girl’s heart, you won’t live long to regret it.

(for those who’ve seen 10 Simple Rules for Dating My Daughter, yes, I’ve shamelessly plagiarized this quip.)

Oh my gosh, I would be sad if a girl’s dad told my son that he has a gun, when he comes to take out his daughter. I guess I don’t get the joke.

Maybe you’re not joking. lol

 

[Steeltemplar]

I have to go with the sentiment (already expressed here) that it is a matter which involves both men and women.

In law, things are often judged based upon what a “reasonable person” would do or think. For instance, in a case of assault where the defendant claims they were only joking and not intending harm, then the question would become “Would a reasonable person, in that situation, have felt that they were truly in danger of harm?”.

So I think that with dress we should apply a similar measure:

“Would a reasonable person become sexually aroused by a given outfit?”

Men are definitely responsible for their own thoughts. However, women can also present themselves in a way which is strongly provocative to sexual interest.

Women do not need to cover every inch. But I think that applying the “reasonable person” standard is a good idea

 

[CoolRich59]

Maybe you’re not joking. lol

Just joking. No worries. It’s certainly not the first time one of my attempts at humor fell flat.

 

[Magicsilence]

LOL. Too funny.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I, too, have a beautiful teenage daughter (who, by the way, dresses very modestly).

My standard reply to any young man who expresses interest in my daughter is:

Just watch your step. I may look like an overweight middle-aged has-been, but I have a shotgun, a shovel and two acres of yard in back. If you break my little girl’s heart, you won’t live long to regret it.

(for those who’ve seen 10 Simple Rules for Dating My Daughter, yes, I’ve shamelessly plagiarized this quip.)

Sounds like over-protective to me.

If a girl’s father said that to me, goooood-bye girl! You can’t just address everyone as if they are only after one thing

 

[Belgarion]

I won’t even bother to say anything on here.
chevalier pretty much covered it

I second whatever Chev says!

 

[AHapka]

It kinda bugs me when there seems to be this stereotype of teenage boys…and teenage girls are all saints. Riiight. lol

Agree completely. Boys and girls are both human beings and have the same ability to sin.

Anyone who doesn’t think girls tempt boys at times should visit my wife’s high school where she teaches in an inner city neighborhood. It’s way different then from when we went ages ago in the early 90’s.

 

[ThomasFrancis]

Well, I would generally agree that the primary responsibility for remaining chaste in mind and body rests with each individual. Us men should not make excuses for our own sins and failings. With that being said, I find this quote by Archbishop Fulton Sheen to be dead on (and having talked to many friends: I’m in the consensus)

“To a great extent the level of any civilization is the level of its womanhood. When a man loves a woman, he has to become worthy of her. The higher her virtue, the more her character, the more devoted she is to truth, justice, goodness, the more a man has to aspire to be worthy of her. The history of civilization could actually be written in terms of the level of its women.”
~Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

Too many women allow themselves to be degraded and used out of their own lack of confidence. Women hold an awesome power over men and they often forfeit it for shallow and fleeting pleasure. There is so much I could write about this issue in light of Bishop Sheen’s words, but I’ll leave at this for now and see what others think. I tend to think it’s something we all intrinsically know.

 

[jkarp]

Well, I would generally agree that the primary responsibility for remaining chaste in mind and body rests with each individual. Us men should not make excuses for our own sins and failings. With that being said, I find this quote by Archbishop Fulton Sheen to be dead on (and having talked to many friends: I’m in the consensus)

“To a great extent the level of any civilization is the level of its womanhood. When a man loves a woman, he has to become worthy of her. The higher her virtue, the more her character, the more devoted she is to truth, justice, goodness, the more a man has to aspire to be worthy of her. The history of civilization could actually be written in terms of the level of its women.”
~Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

Too many women allow themselves to be degraded and used out of their own lack of confidence. Women hold an awesome power over men and they often forfeit it for shallow and fleeting pleasure. There is so much I could write about this issue in light of Bishop Sheen’s words, but I’ll leave at this for now and see what others think. I tend to think it’s something we all intrinsically know.

I agree; Archbishop Sheen is dead on.

 

[cthulhubryan]

“To a great extent the level of any civilization is the level of its womanhood. When a man loves a woman, he has to become worthy of her. The higher her virtue, the more her character, the more devoted she is to truth, justice, goodness, the more a man has to aspire to be worthy of her. The history of civilization could actually be written in terms of the level of its women.”
~Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

Awesome! I’ve tried to express that before but now I know the real words

 

[whatevergirl]

Just joking. No worries. It’s certainly not the first time one of my attempts at humor fell flat.

Aw! i’m sorry. I should have lightened up a bit.

 

[Nechasin]

Aw! i’m sorry. I should have lightened up a bit.

I’m also a very protective father. I have always said that I will have very sharp knives and clean guns when the boys come over to pick my daughters up. This is because I will be cleaning my guns and sharpening my knives when they come. I will admit that I’m only half joking. A little fear never hurt anyone.

 

[Nechasin]

As far as the OP’s original question is concerned, I’m convinced that young men (myself included when I was younger) would be aroused by any sign that a girl/women gave. It is a sign of maturity that a man can control his emotions and arousal to the proper occurances and alot of that in my case can be attributed to having daughters.

For the most part, girls are not at fault. I know when I was in high school and early college, the girls could be wearing a burqa and I would wonder what they were wearing underneath it. That is not the girls fault. It is true that some young women and girls do tempt boys and men, but I don’t think that is the norm. We are still responsible for our own actions and thoughts.

As men of God it is our responsiblity to view women as the beautiful creations fo God that they are and respect them as such.It is not wrong to admire the beauty of God’s creation, but it is wrong to lust after that beauty. And it is a fine line between those activities and it that takes experience and maturity to distingush between admiring beauty and lusting after beauty.

I don’t think it is a bad idea that women help us, but it is the responsiblity of men and boys to recognize the difference.

Unfortunately, the temptations are great and the thoughts that are placed in our heads in our youth are hard to combat. Even when men know the difference.

I worked offshore for a while and we had some women engineers on the platform as well. The women engineers were impressed with the behavior of the roughnecks and didn’t think they caused any problems. But there was a night and day difference in the attitude of the men when they were present versus when they weren’t present. There wasn’t any fault of the women other than there presents on the platform.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that men will lust after women regardless of what the woman is wearing and regardless of the circumstances. Many times women don’t even know it. I don’t think there is anythng women can really do to prevent this other than staying out of site which isn’t realistic.

Mature men in mind, body, and spirituality are more capable of resisiting our nature, but we still struggle.

I will also aggree with some of the other posters that attitude is very important. If a women’s attitude is conservative, I’m less likely to think negative thoughts regardless of what she is wearing. If it is immodest it won’t matter what she is wearing, I will struggle with impure thoughts.

 

[mpernot]

Not entirely true. Strong exposure may well cause involuntary reaction. Remember than arousal is not voluntary. A man may be stimulated up until erection without wanting it. That of itself is not enough to consider it a sin (he didn’t seek it, he did nothing to pursue it, he did not seek unlawful relief), but he runs a higher risk due to this contribution. In fact, impure thoughts may involuntarily enter his mind (that’s how temptation works, isn’t it?) and he may or may not have the strength to dismiss them. He is responsible for his choices, but the contributor is responsible as well. Regardless whether it’s a man or a woman.

The answer to this is “yes” they are.

There was a very interesting article in Homiletic & Pastoral Review a couple of years ago on this topic. Sorry, I don’t remember the article and my recollection may be flawed, but my recollection is that the article posited that men are “wired” one way and women another. Men are stimulated visually and the way women dress does have an effect on them.

I agree with both of you except that I said that “Surely immodestly dressed girls are not “forcing” guys into thinking impure thoughts or doing impure deeds.” I didn’t say that immodestly dressed women couldn’t force guys to be stimulated or aroused, I agree that they can. Impure thoughts and impure deeds are voluntary sins that one cannot force another to commit, unlike stimulation, which is involuntary and itself not a sin.

In some cases it’s a proper lie, as in a decision to lead people on. In more cases, however, it will be the stupidity of the present age, i.e. not even thinking about it. In some or maybe even in most cases, the state of mind will likely be too chaotic to make it a proper lie, i.e. a voluntary falsehood.

Agreed, that’s why it’s so important to be aware of the language of one’s body. The body speaks this language whether it is a conscious lie or the whether the mind is ignorant of this language. It is common in this age for the body to be saying something that one wouldn’t ever say with words (lust after me, I want attention even if it’s as an object, etc.).

Yes and the very same can be said about the masturbation of women.

I completely agree.

 

[chevalier]

I’m also a very protective father. I have always said that I will have very sharp knives and clean guns when the boys come over to pick my daughters up. This is because I will be cleaning my guns and sharpening my knives when they come. I will admit that I’m only half joking. A little fear never hurt anyone.

I would honestly be worried if I heard any mention of guns or knives with relation to me from a chosen lady’s father and it would have little to do with fear. I think I would be offended too and it would be hard to undo that. It would possibly strain the relationship with the lady in question and I would rather leave than cause a strife between her and her father over my hurt sensibilities. On the other hand, when I was in my late teens or early twenties, I crossed a couple of lines, and I understand where you come from since I’d be protective if I had a daughter in today’s world.

 

[chevalier]

I agree with both of you except that I said that “Surely immodestly dressed girls are not “forcing” guys into thinking impure thoughts or doing impure deeds.” I didn’t say that immodestly dressed women couldn’t force guys to be stimulated or aroused, I agree that they can. Impure thoughts and impure deeds are voluntary sins that one cannot force another to commit, unlike stimulation, which is involuntary and itself not a sin.

I think we’re having some semantic trouble here. What is an important point is that one can’t force someone to sin since when it’s forced, it’s not chosen and one sins by choice, not by force. So in this way people can’t be forced to sin - they can be forced to commit (or even “perform” might be a better word) acts which would be sinful if they were chosen by free will.

This said, it is possible to “break” people. Think interrogation tactics, some kinds of abusive military conditioning. Powerful sexual stimulation could have a similar effect. Perhaps enough stimulus can make someone’s psyche give in. Most probably impossible to achieve by immodest clothing alone, but immodest clothing can be a powerful signal and can have an effect similar to subliminal impulses. It can invoke imaginations already and not merely arousal. Then those imaginations would not be sinful if rejected at the stage of temptation (i.e. not entertained), precisely because of being forced on the recipient. Some of those images sink in the head. Then one has to make a lot of effort to get rid of the image even after the original person is gone. I think the opportunity to offer resistance often presents itself only after the images begin storming. But of course, the act of entertaining sexual thoughts and finding pleasure in them cannot be forced - pretty much by definition.

Agreed, that’s why it’s so important to be aware of the language of one’s body. The body speaks this language whether it is a conscious lie or the whether the mind is ignorant of this language. It is common in this age for the body to be saying something that one wouldn’t ever say with words (lust after me, I want attention even if it’s as an object, etc.).

Actually, even the way people act is a lie or ignorance in much the same way. I seriously doubt the women who allow themselves to be disrespected, especially grossly humiliatingly disrespected, actually want that kind of thing. They want a man and they think putting up with that kind of treatment is a necessary bitter sacrifice. On the other hand, some women clearly do not respect themselves and engage in some humiliating conduct for the kicks, but that is ignorance, I think, and they pursue that kind of satisfaction because they don’t know (or can’t accept) true love. Show those poor secular women that they can have a relationship in which they are loved, cherished and respected and once they get it, I doubt many of them would want to return to the old thing.

I’m sorry if I’m not sounding very clear, but I’m very tired today. If you need me to clear something up, I’ll be there tomorrow.

 

[basilisk]

Masturbation is impossible to achieve without impure thoughts.

Just because I haven’t been around in a couple of days and am feeling the need to totally hijack a thread…

I must say that I have to disagree with this statement from chevalier. As a young military wife, left alone without my husband for months at a time, I succumbed to this particular vice sometimes when I was really lonely and really desiring my husband. My thoughts revolved around him. Surely, no one is going to try to tell me that sexual thoughts about one’s own spouse are impure!

Masturbation does not always have the grossly immoral motivations so many seem to assume. Just food for thought.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…All of THAT being said…girls have a responsibility to be astute to their dress and behaviors, but boys have a reponsibility to control themselves, also. I think that modesty and morality is a team sport. …

I agree with you, whatevergirl.

Men and women compliment each other. Even some of our most common sins “compliment” each other. Men often have a problem with lust; women often have a problem with vanity. (And vice-versa too. Women aren’t immune from lust and men aren’t imune from vanity.) Vanity and the desire to be attractive often drives women to dress in ways that attract attention–and some women and girls can’t distinguish good attention from bad attention.

All that said, no matter what a woman wears (or doesn’t wear), men have a responsibility to guard their eyes and their thoughts.

 

[BamaRider]

Well here’s one thing y’all forget. FONTS. The fancy, colorful type some ladies use on CAF (like what Sharon uses) is entirely inappropiate on a Catholic Forum. It drives us men crazy, and makes it hard concentrate, and bombs us with bad thoughts.

I dunno what to do on here. Sheesh.

 

[basilisk]

What Bama, like this you mean?