Girls wearing the cope

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dkoinzan said:
I would agree but when it is the Bishop’s Mass, I really don’t think I am going to make any headway.
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You might be surprised sometimes. Right now, my cathedral is as solid as it gets, with awesome, orthodox liturgy.

But not all the bishop’s Masses are that way. Certainly, he would like them to be better, but he can’t get involved with every little thing.

You might just send something to the bishop’s office and see what they say. Be polite, and don’t accuse them. Try writing something along these lines:

Dear ____

I recently saw altar girls wearing cassocks at your Vigil Mass. I was under the impression that cassocks were clerical clothing. Could you please explain this to me?
 
TheMc said:
You might be surprised sometimes. Right now, my cathedral is as solid as it gets, with awesome, orthodox liturgy.

But not all the bishop’s Masses are that way. Certainly, he would like them to be better, but he can’t get involved with every little thing.

You might just send something to the bishop’s office and see what they say. Be polite, and don’t accuse them. Try writing something along these lines:

Dear ____

I recently saw altar girls wearing cassocks at your Vigil Mass. I was under the impression that cassocks were clerical clothing. Could you please explain this to me?
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If you say that cassocks are clerical clothing then no altar server should be allowed to use a cassock. The statement should be about attire specific for men.
 
There once were albs but they were tossed out. When they were tossed I was under the impression that the Cathedral would go to male servers only. It doesn’t seem to be moving in that direction. The issue has been brought up to the Priest in charge of planning the Bishop’s Masses. He got a bit irritated. He mentioned that there is no place that specifically states that girls can’t wear cassocks so…

I am not going to raise money for albs when in my heart I believe servers need to be boys. I guess it is down to prayer and sacrifice.
 
dkoinzan said:
There once were albs but they were tossed out. When they were tossed I was under the impression that the Cathedral would go to male servers only. It doesn’t seem to be moving in that direction. The issue has been brought up to the Priest in charge of planning the Bishop’s Masses. He got a bit irritated. He mentioned that there is no place that specifically states that girls can’t wear cassocks so…

I am not going to raise money for albs when in my heart I believe servers need to be boys. I guess it is down to prayer and sacrifice.
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The Priest technically wrong, but technically correct aswell, in the mid 70s, Blessed John Paul II issued a Motu Proprio that allowed Female Altar servers under extraordinary means however this was at the ordinarys discretion, is the Bishop said he will not allow Female Altar Servers at his Masses or his diocese, he was within Canon Law to do so, and his orders must be followed. It still stands that no female may serve the Altar according to the 1962 missal, as the rubrics do not allow for it at all.

Edit: Found something interesting

"
18. There are, of course, various roles that women can perform in the liturgical assembly: these include reading the Word of God and proclaiming the intentions of the Prayer of the Faithful. Women are not, however, permitted to act as altar servers.(27)"
Inaestimabile Donum

Approved and Confirmed by His Holiness Pope (Blessed) John Paul II April 17, 1980

It was not untill 1992 that Blessed John Paul II issued a statement that part o the new Canon Law allows for female altar servers, however it is entirely at the Bishops, and the celebrants discretion whether they are allowed, so if your Bishop (or your priest) does not wish to allow woman to serve the altar, he can choose to disallow women to serve the altar.

God bless you.
 
Cristiano said:
If you say that cassocks are clerical clothing then no altar server should be allowed to use a cassock. The statement should be about attire specific for men.
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It’s a long explanation, but the reason servers are allowed some clericals (namely, cassock and surplice) is because when they serve the Mass, they are actually substituting for clerics. Another good reason why there should be no altar girls.
 
dkoinzan said:
There once were albs but they were tossed out. When they were tossed I was under the impression that the Cathedral would go to male servers only. It doesn’t seem to be moving in that direction. The issue has been brought up to the Priest in charge of planning the Bishop’s Masses. He got a bit irritated. He mentioned that there is no place that specifically states that girls can’t wear cassocks so…

I am not going to raise money for albs when in my heart I believe servers need to be boys. I guess it is down to prayer and sacrifice.
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Completely with you there! We have only boys at our parish and I am extremely grateful. I will join your prayer and sacrifice.
 
TheMc said:
It’s a long explanation, but the reason servers are allowed some clericals (namely, cassock and surplice) is because when they serve the Mass, they are actually substituting for clerics. Another good reason why there should be no altar girls.
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From what you are saying you confirm my point. If girls are serving at Mass then they are substituting for the clerics and then they should be allowed to wear cassocks and surplices or nobody should wear cassocks and surplices.

Here I am not debating if the girls should be allowed to serve or not and if the girls should be allowed to wear clerical garb or not. I am only making the point that if you write to a Bishop trying to change things you must give him a reasonable proof for the need of change, and the change must be proper.
 
Cristiano said:
From what you are saying you confirm my point. If girls are serving at Mass then they are substituting for the clerics and then they should be allowed to wear cassocks and surplices or nobody should wear cassocks and surplices.

Here I am not debating if the girls should be allowed to serve or not and if the girls should be allowed to wear clerical garb or not. I am only making the point that if you write to a Bishop trying to change things you must give him a reasonable proof for the need of change, and the change must be proper.
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I have already talked to many officials about this, including the director of the office of worship, and he said that I was right. Girls should not wear cassocks. If girls serve, they should wear albs.
 
TheMc said:
I have already talked to many officials about this, including the director of the office of worship, and he said that I was right. Girls should not wear cassocks. If girls serve, they should wear albs.
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My point of contention is that if they should or not but it is about the why. I have not seen any reasonable explanation yet, except that the cassock is a male garb. The answer that someone said so is not sufficient to show reasonable evidence when going to a Bishop and asking for change.
 
The Church, in her wisdom, rarely speaks out saying that a discipline is wrong. What she does do is speak to what is right. If I am correct in this assumption. What I will find will not be anything like, “Girls shouldn’t wear cassocks.” It will be an explanation of what a cassock is and what it’s uses are.

I compare it to raising my kids. I cannot ever tell them about every lie they may encounter. I can however tell them truth so that they can identify the lie through truth.

I love my bishop and his Cathedral. I think for now rather than confronting the Bishop I shall pray he has the desire to have boys only serve in his Cathedral.
 
dkoinzan said:
The Church, in her wisdom, rarely speaks out saying that a discipline is wrong. What she does do is speak to what is right. If I am correct in this assumption. What I will find will not be anything like, “Girls shouldn’t wear cassocks.” It will be an explanation of what a cassock is and what it’s uses are.

I compare it to raising my kids. I cannot ever tell them about every lie they may encounter. I can however tell them truth so that they can identify the lie through truth.

I love my bishop and his Cathedral. I think for now rather than confronting the Bishop I shall pray he has the desire to have boys only serve in his Cathedral.
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The Latin Church usually follows the Roman method of law (see development of the Code of Canon Law) where what is not forbidden is allowed.
 
Cristiano said:
The Latin Church usually follows the Roman method of law (see development of the Code of Canon Law) where what is not forbidden is allowed.
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Sure, likewise the Church doesn’t prohibit boys from wearing a nun’s habit while serving.

The Church doesn’t specifically prohibit cross dressing altar servers, but that doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea for a pastor to encourage.
 
Brendan said:
Sure, likewise the Church doesn’t prohibit boys from wearing a nun’s habit while serving.

The Church doesn’t specifically prohibit cross dressing altar servers, but that doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea for a pastor to encourage.
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I agree with you. If you read all my posts in this thread I made it quite clear that I am not debating whether female altar severs should wear cassocks or not. I was just addressing the specifics of a letter to a Bishop in order to obtain a change that we wish for.
 
FAB said:
I have seen servers in masses with the bishop wearing the humeral veil when they are responsible for holding the Miter and staff, so if they were serving in that role the answer would be yes.
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That would be a vimpa and not a humeral veil.
 
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