GIRM and Posture

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I was in Michigan for my grandfather’s funeral and was one of the lectors. (His parish falls in the Saginaw Diocese.) I was asking a few questions about posture. After saying where I was from, I was surprised when the organist (who is studying to be a Deacon) told me that the Diocese I am now a part of is “so traditional”. This parish did not seem to be implementing many of the postures of the GIRM. In example for the congragation, the bow during the Creed (he was conceived…) or before the reception of Holy Communion.

Am I really in that “so traditional” of a Diocese or parish? Where is your parish at?
 
We’ve had some GIRM posture implemented and others (standing through communion) that I don’t know where they came from. We have a long way to go. We’ve gotten some wonky instruction regarding Mass ( from the diocesan liturgist) and others things so it will take some time to work those things out.
 
Our parish requests all make a sign of reverence by bowing the head before receiving the Host or Chalice. I don’t think many people know about the requisite bow of the head at the name of Jesus, the name of Mary, the name of the saint being honored that day, or at the names of the Holy Trinity.
 
I was in Michigan for my grandfather’s funeral and was one of the lectors. (His parish falls in the Saginaw Diocese.) I was asking a few questions about posture. After saying where I was from, I was surprised when the organist (who is studying to be a Deacon) told me that the Diocese I am now a part of is “so traditional”. This parish did not seem to be implementing many of the postures of the GIRM. In example for the congragation, the bow during the Creed (he was conceived…) or before the reception of Holy Communion.
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Am I really in that “so traditional” of a Diocese or parish? Where is your parish at?
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I was at a funeral in the Saginaw Diocese within the past few weeks, and I, too, was more than a little taken aback. I have lived in a lot of places, and am pretty flexible to “local norms,” but was quite surprised to find such liturgical improvosation in a rural community of mostly older parishioners. (I’m 57, so that tells you how old they were for me to think them “older”. . .)

So, assuming we weren’t at the same funeral – no grandchildren serving as readers at the one in Caseville – what the heck is going on in Saginaw??

(Must also add that I met some truly faithfilled and loving people in that parish as well . . . men and women who expressed their love of God and love of one another in truly meaningful ways. But, oy vey, I did wonder if the sign outside the church actually said “Roman Catholic” . . . )

(And I’ll bet my diocese is more conservative than yours 😉 )
 
Very disappointing. I thought that Saginaw was starting to shape up by now.

I wonder if your experiences are representative of the rest of the diocese.
 
How’s this for ecumenism? Methodists are making the Sign of the Cross during their services now!! Alleluia!👍
 
Much of the revisions were put in place in my parish when they were announced. We had a 70+ year-old priest that was an Army chaplain, he did it by the book and when instructed (must be that military background;) ). It is sad to go to and leave the Holy Mass wondering if you were really at a Roman Catholic Church. A Christmas or two ago, I was back home (were I grew up) and went to Christmas Vigil Mass at a different parish in the Saginaw Diocese. I was amazed at all the little parts of the Mass that were left out. The most rememberable was that the priest did purify/cleanse his hands. When discussing it with other family members, they were surprised at how much was missing, when noted specifics. They had simply forgotten the way it used to be:(

I don’t care where in the USA or the world I am… I will worship, bow, knee, etc. before our Lord as I feel necessary. At grandpa’s mass I think we (my spouse and children) were the only ones who were kneeing during the consecration and that’s ok. I thoroughly enjoy the “traditional” postures and want my children to know them and understand why they are important.

There are still very devote people in these places. It is just interesting to me how different things can be from place to place in the USA.

I apologize for the length, but I could go on and on. Don’t get me started on the reception of the Holy Eucharist… At my parish we are using paten’s at every Mass (weekday’s too when there is someone available, usually all 5 days of the week 👍 ).
 
My bishop sent me and our former director of liturgy for the diocese (a priest) to the FDLC in San Antonio where they were discussing the GIRM. I took copious notes and asked a plethora of questions. I think I filled up an entire yellow legal pad (it’s a habit I picked up while at UT).

When we got back, nothing happened. Very few parishes have implemented the appropriate times to sit and stand. In fact, three of the priests are having to give people hand signs to motion them to stand (especially during the Orate Frates portion).

It’s been frustrating. The new director of liturgy (also a priest) is having his hands full trying to get everyone to abide by the GIRM.
 
benedictgal said:
My bishop sent me and our former director of liturgy for the diocese (a priest) to the FDLC in San Antonio where they were discussing the GIRM. I took copious notes and asked a plethora of questions. I think I filled up an entire yellow legal pad (it’s a habit I picked up while at UT).

When we got back, nothing happened. Very few parishes have implemented the appropriate times to sit and stand. In fact, three of the priests are having to give people hand signs to motion them to stand (especially during the Orate Frates portion).

It’s been frustrating. The new director of liturgy (also a priest) is having his hands full trying to get everyone to abide by the GIRM.
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We usually have a lector tell the congregation, “Please sit…please stand… please kneel…” over and over again. I swear a congregation is like a bunch of moo cows in a field!!
 
peary said:
We usually have a lector tell the congregation, “Please sit…please stand… please kneel…” over and over again. I swear a congregation is like a bunch of moo cows in a field!!
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Our PV doesn’t like doing that. He uses simple hand gestures and that works a lot better. He doesn’t like interference during the Mass so a silent cue retains the solemnity while getting the faithful to follow the rubrics.
 
In June when we got our new priest, many people were confused by some of the changes he made. Only old people like me had big grins on our faces when we saw him wash his hands and actually do the pennitential rite at all masses. But I think the biggest change for us was that the pastor uses all the Eucharistic prayers… after 8 yrs of Eucharistic Prayer II, it was a very welcome change! My husband still chuckles though when he does the one that lists a whole bunch of saints… I think maybe prayer 1? Anyway, the classic moment was him singing the Kyrie and our Choir director going right into the drum machine, happy clappy Gloria that is only supposed to be for the Childrens liturgy. The look on his face was priceless… and the next week there was a different Gloria!!! Now that is my kind of priest!
 
BlestOne said:
In June when we got our new priest, many people were confused by some of the changes he made. Only old people like me had big grins on our faces when we saw him wash his hands and actually do the pennitential rite at all masses. But I think the biggest change for us was that the pastor uses all the Eucharistic prayers… after 8 yrs of Eucharistic Prayer II, it was a very welcome change! My husband still chuckles though when he does the one that lists a whole bunch of saints… I think maybe prayer 1? Anyway, the classic moment was him singing the Kyrie and our Choir director going right into the drum machine, happy clappy Gloria that is only supposed to be for the Childrens liturgy. The look on his face was priceless… and the next week there was a different Gloria!!! Now that is my kind of priest!
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You’ll be happy to know that someone read OCP the riot act on that hand-clappy Gloria by Christopher Walker. OCP had to remove it from the service music section and list it as a regular hymn. That is not the Gloria, BTW. It is a paraphrase of the Gloria that runs contrary to the GIRM.

I actually love Eucharistic Prayer I (the Roman Canon) and Eucharistic Prayer IV (details salvation history), as well as the Eucharistic Prayer for Reconciliation I. The ones that are hard to take are the so-called “Swiss Canons” and the Eucharistic Prayer for Children.
 
benedictgal said:
Our PV doesn’t like doing that. He uses simple hand gestures and that works a lot better. He doesn’t like interference during the Mass so a silent cue retains the solemnity while getting the faithful to follow the rubrics.
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I don’t think simple hand gestures would work in my parish. Most people either have their noses in the missalette, or looking at stuff on their cell phones, or walking around with their kids on potty break, or talking to the person next to them.

congratulations…it’s the triumph of the ghetto over culture.😦
 
peary said:
I don’t think simple hand gestures would work in my parish. Most people either have their noses in the missalette, or looking at stuff on their cell phones, or walking around with their kids on potty break, or talking to the person next to them.

congratulations…it’s the triumph of the ghetto over culture.😦
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Should not the new postures be printed in the missalette by now?
 
Change is always difficult. Some will grow to love the deep reverence of the change in posture and others will resist the change, never benefit from the change. I wish everyone could be open to the posture changes.
 
cecelia_ann said:
Change is always difficult. Some will grow to love the deep reverence of the change in posture and others will resist the change, never benefit from the change. I wish everyone could be open to the posture changes.
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One of the big contemporary psycho-babble dogmas is that “change is good”…but I hasten to add:sometimes, and not all of the time. People are more productive when they get into a rhythm that repeats itself, and even more productive when there are slight-to-mid-range variations applied. However, if major or radical change happens every time you turn around, that productivity is lost due to inner psychological turmoil.

The same may be said of GIRM and posture. The reverence, awe, prayerfulness and deep sense of the sacred that people had prior to Novus Ordo was very real, and served the Church well. If there had been some slight-to-mid-range variations to the Mass instead of what happened with the rabid implementation of Novus Ordo, perhaps people would have slowly been open to the change in each succeeding generation and we wouldn’t have such a problem now.

One of the major complaints I have heard time and time again from those who love the Tridentine is that they had always been treated with less than Christian charity, as if they were parias that needed to be ignored and done away with. And priests were the most vociferous in their attacks on them, which is sad. Well, what goes around comes around.

Hopefully, in the future, both traditions can borrow from each other.
 
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