GIRM and use of Communion Paten

[CathMass]

Could anyone out there provide me a very recent document that is GIRM supported that supports the use of the paten for communion (the one held under people’s chins). Also any other recent documents that mention the use of the paten would be appreciated.

 

[tee_eff_em]

How about the GIRM itself?:
"
GIRM
[/QUOTE]
"]118. The following are also to be prepared:

• 
  *]Next to the priest’s chair: the Missal and, as needed, a hymnal;
  *]At the ambo: the Lectionary;
  *]On the credence table: the chalice, a corporal, a purificator, and, if appropriate, the pall; the paten and, if needed, ciboria; bread for the Communion of the priest who presides, the deacon, the ministers, and the people; cruets containing the wine and the water, unless all of these are presented by the faithful in procession at the Offertory; the vessel of water to be blessed, if the asperges occurs;
  

  the Communion-plate for the Communion of the faithful

  ; and whatever is needed for the washing of hands.
  
  It is a praiseworthy practice to cover the chalice with a veil, which may be either the color of the day or white.
  
  Or Redemptionis Sacramentum?:
  
  

  [93.] The Communion-plate for the Communion of the faithful should be retained, so as to avoid the danger of the sacred host or some fragment of it falling.
  
  tee

 

[benedictgal]

Patens are used in my Dad’s parish. When he distributes communion to those parishioners who have difficulty coming to the sanctuary (elderly, blind and disabled), he has an altar server accompany him with a paten.

By the way, CathMass, you have an awesome auxiliary bishop in the Most Rev. Daniel Flores. He’s wonderful. Take care of him. We probably want him back as soon as possible.

 

[VAC]

I haven’t seen one of those in over 20 years

 

[Brendan]

I haven’t seen one of those in over 20 years

We use them daily at our parish.

 

[DaveBj]

We have them at our parish, but a lot of the altar boys/girls have not been trained on what to do with them.

Here’s a question–I know that when the person received on the tongue, the paten is supposed to be placed under the chin, but where is it supposed to go when the person receives in the hand?

 

[Brendan]

Here’s a question–I know that when the person received on the tongue, the paten is supposed to be placed under the chin, but where is it supposed to go when the person receives in the hand?

Below their hands.

 

[DaveBj]

Below their hands.

I thought as much.

 

[John_Lilburne]

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“287. If Communion from the chalice is carried out by intinction, each communicant, holding a communion-plate under the chin, approaches the priest, who holds a vessel with the sacred particles, a minister standing at his side and holding the chalice. The priest takes a host, dips it partly into the chalice and, showing it, says, Corpus et Sanguis Christi (The Body and Blood of Christ). The communicant responds, Amen, receives the Sacrament in the mouth from the priest, and then withdraws.”

From the 1975 GIRM:
"117. He then takes the paten or a ciborium and goes to the communicants. If communion is given only under the form of bread, he raises the eucharistic bread slightly and shows it to each one, saying: The body of Christ. The communicants reply: Amen and, holding the communion plate under their chin receive the sacrament. "

“2. Rite of Communion under Both Kinds by Intinction
246. If there is a deacon, another priest assisting, or an acolyte present:
a) The priest hands the minister the chalice with purificator and he himself takes the paten or ciborium with the hosts. The priest and the minister of the chalice station themselves conveniently for distributing communion.
b) The communicants approach, make the proper reverence, stand in front of the priest, and hold the communion plate below their chin. The celebrant dips a particle into the chalice and, showing it, says: The body and blood of Christ. The communicants respond: Amen, receive communion from the priest, and return to their place.
c) The communion of those who do not receive under both kinds and the rest of the rite take place as already described.
247. If there is no deacon, assisting priest, or acolyte present: a) After drinking the blood of the Lord, the priest takes the ciborium, or paten with the hosts, between the index and middle fingers of one hand and holds the chalice between the thumb and index finger of the same hand. Then he stations himself conveniently for communion.
b) The communicants approach, make the proper reverence, stand in front of the priest, and hold a plate beneath their chin. The priest takes a particle, dips it into the chalice, and, showing it, says: The body and blood of Christ. The communicants respond: Amen, receive communion from the priest, and return to their place.”

“4. Rite of Communion under Both Kinds Using a Spoon
251. If a deacon, another assisting priest, or an acolyte is present, he holds the chalice and, saying: The blood of Christ, ministers the blood of the Lord with a spoon to the individual communicants, who hold the plate beneath their chin. He is to take care that the spoon does not touch the lips or tongue of the communicants.”

All the official documents I am aware of direct that person receiving Communion to hold the communion-plate. None direct an altar server to hold it. So there is a problem if some are receiving Communion in the hand. What do they do with the plate?

 

[benedictgal]

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“287. If Communion from the chalice is carried out by intinction, each communicant, holding a communion-plate under the chin, approaches the priest, who holds a vessel with the sacred particles, a minister standing at his side and holding the chalice. The priest takes a host, dips it partly into the chalice and, showing it, says, Corpus et Sanguis Christi (The Body and Blood of Christ). The communicant responds, Amen, receives the Sacrament in the mouth from the priest, and then withdraws.”

From the 1975 GIRM:
"117. He then takes the paten or a ciborium and goes to the communicants. If communion is given only under the form of bread, he raises the eucharistic bread slightly and shows it to each one, saying: The body of Christ. The communicants reply: Amen and, holding the communion plate under their chin receive the sacrament. "

“2. Rite of Communion under Both Kinds by Intinction
246. If there is a deacon, another priest assisting, or an acolyte present:
a) The priest hands the minister the chalice with purificator and he himself takes the paten or ciborium with the hosts. The priest and the minister of the chalice station themselves conveniently for distributing communion.
b) The communicants approach, make the proper reverence, stand in front of the priest, and hold the communion plate below their chin. The celebrant dips a particle into the chalice and, showing it, says: The body and blood of Christ. The communicants respond: Amen, receive communion from the priest, and return to their place.
c) The communion of those who do not receive under both kinds and the rest of the rite take place as already described.
247. If there is no deacon, assisting priest, or acolyte present: a) After drinking the blood of the Lord, the priest takes the ciborium, or paten with the hosts, between the index and middle fingers of one hand and holds the chalice between the thumb and index finger of the same hand. Then he stations himself conveniently for communion.
b) The communicants approach, make the proper reverence, stand in front of the priest, and hold a plate beneath their chin. The priest takes a particle, dips it into the chalice, and, showing it, says: The body and blood of Christ. The communicants respond: Amen, receive communion from the priest, and return to their place.”

“4. Rite of Communion under Both Kinds Using a Spoon
251. If a deacon, another assisting priest, or an acolyte is present, he holds the chalice and, saying: The blood of Christ, ministers the blood of the Lord with a spoon to the individual communicants, who hold the plate beneath their chin. He is to take care that the spoon does not touch the lips or tongue of the communicants.”

All the official documents I am aware of direct that person receiving Communion to hold the communion-plate. None direct an altar server to hold it. So there is a problem if some are receiving Communion in the hand. What do they do with the plate?

I think that you are misinterpreting this directive. First of all, it would make no sense for the communicant to hold the paten. Second, if your interpretation is correct, why, in the papal Masses, is there someone standing next to Pope Benedict XVI holding a paten during Communion? The person holding the paten in the papal Mass is not the communicant. It is either one of the pope’s masters of cermonies or an alcolyte. Clearly, if the Church’s chief liturgist and Christ’s Vicar on earth isn’t having the communicant hold the paten, then it is not interpreted that way in the GIRM. As much a chief stickler for following liturgical norms and rubrics as he is, Pope Benedict isn’t going to be going against the very liturgy whose integrity he is trying to preserve.

 

[John_Lilburne]

I think that you are misinterpreting this directive. First of all, it would make no sense for the communicant to hold the paten. Second, if your interpretation is correct, why, in the papal Masses, is there someone standing next to Pope Benedict XVI holding a paten during Communion? The person holding the paten in the papal Mass is not the communicant. It is either one of the pope’s masters of cermonies or an alcolyte. Clearly, if the Church’s chief liturgist and Christ’s Vicar on earth isn’t having the communicant hold the paten, then it is not interpreted that way in the GIRM. As much a chief stickler for following liturgical norms and rubrics as he is, Pope Benedict isn’t going to be going against the very liturgy whose integrity he is trying to preserve.

The 2002 GIRM has: “287. If Communion from the chalice is carried out by intinction, each communicant, holding a communion-plate under the chin, approaches the priest, who holds a vessel with the sacred particles, a minister standing at his side and holding the chalice.”
How else can it be interpreted? The communicant holds the communion-plate under their chin. The minister holds the chalice. The priest holds the vessel with the sacred particles.
I agree there are challenges in following this instruction of a liturgical book. But that is the specific and detailed instruction.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

The 2002 GIRM has: “287. If Communion from the chalice is carried out by intinction, each communicant, holding a communion-plate under the chin, approaches the priest, who holds a vessel with the sacred particles, a minister standing at his side and holding the chalice.”
How else can it be interpreted? The communicant holds the communion-plate under their chin. The minister holds the chalice. The priest holds the vessel with the sacred particles.
I agree there are challenges in following this instruction of a liturgical book. But that is the specific and detailed instruction.

Does the pope give communion by intinction?

 

[John_Lilburne]

Does the pope give communion by intinction?

I don’t know. But I am confident that the litugical books since 1970 have only directed that the communicant hold the communion-plate under their own chin. No one has been instructed (by the liturgical books) to hold the communion-plate under someone else’s chin … or under their hands.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I don’t know. But I am confident that the litugical books since 1970 have only directed that the communicant hold the communion-plate under their own chin. No one has been instructed (by the liturgical books) to hold the communion-plate under someone else’s chin … or under their hands.

My point is that the section you quoted was about intinction:

The 2002 GIRM has: “287. If Communion from the chalice **is carried out by intinction, **each communicant, holding a communion-plate under the chin, approaches the priest, who holds a vessel with the sacred particles, a minister standing at his side and holding the chalice.”

It appears the GIRM does not specifically mention the use of a paten when the host is given out. Perhaps there’s another document that does. I’m trying to remember when I’ve last been in a church where a paten was used while distributing the hosts, but I can’t remember one.

 

[Timmay]

By the way, CathMass, you have an awesome auxiliary bishop in the Most Rev. Daniel Flores. He’s wonderful. Take care of him. We probably want him back as soon as possible.

I can’t speak for CathMass, but many of us are aware of the treasure we have in Bishop Flores. And we have no intention of giving him back.

 

[Pug]

I agree there are challenges in following this instruction of a liturgical book. But that is the specific and detailed instruction.

It works well enough for the communicant to hold the paten under their own chin. I have done it myself. It was for reception of just a host on the tongue, though, and not an intinction situation. Each communicant passes the paten to the next communicant after they have received. I had just assumed this was because there was no altar boy there.

 

[John_Lilburne]

It works well enough for the communicant to hold the paten under their own chin. I have done it myself. It was for reception of just a host on the tongue, though, and not an intinction situation. Each communicant passes the paten to the next communicant after they have received. I had just assumed this was because there was no altar boy there.

If someone chooses to receive Communion in the hand what do they do with the communion-plate? Perhaps they could tuck it under their left arm. Put it on a stand. Give it to an altar server.

I agree it could work. But I also understand that it would cause confusion, require particular instruction.

So I found it confusing that the 2002 GIRM removed almost all reference to the communion-plate (except for intinction). Then the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum included:
“[93.] The Communion-plate for the Communion of the faithful should be retained, so as to avoid the danger of the sacred host or some fragment of it falling.[footnote 180: Cf. Missale Romanum, Institutio Generalis, n. 118.]”

This should be obeyed, of course. As it has near the end of the document: “This Instruction, prepared by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments by mandate of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II in collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was approved by the same Pontiff on the Solemnity of St. Joseph, 19 March 2004, and he ordered it to be published and to be observed immediately by all concerned.”

But there are challenges in obeying it. The only occasion since 2004 I can recall seeing a communion-plate used was by the pope’s Master of Ceremonies, while the pope was distributing Communion. But in the same Mass, lots of priests were distributing Communion without a communion-plate being used.

 

[Pug]

If someone chooses to receive Communion in the hand what do they do with the communion-plate? Perhaps they could tuck it under their left arm. Put it on a stand. Give it to an altar server.

I think in this case, since we were in a line, you just had to pass the plate to the person after you before you received, instead of passing it after you received. It would definitely require special instruction for those who were unfamiliar with it. I’ve seen this plate-passing observed in a private chapel, not in a regular parish situation. (About 30 people in attendance, basically all tongue receiving choosers).

Our parish has recently re-introduced patens held by servers. Perhaps parishes are moving to observe the documents? I am too unfamiliar with the rules concerning patens to be of much help, other than to observe that I’ve seen the paten passing thing in action.

 

[benedictgal]

I think in this case, since we were in a line, you just had to pass the plate to the person after you before you received, instead of passing it after you received. It would definitely require special instruction for those who were unfamiliar with it. I’ve seen this plate-passing observed in a private chapel, not in a regular parish situation. (About 30 people in attendance, basically all tongue receiving choosers).

Our parish has recently re-introduced patens held by servers. Perhaps parishes are moving to observe the documents? I am too unfamiliar with the rules concerning patens to be of much help, other than to observe that I’ve seen the paten passing thing in action.

I still have never seen, in all of my years of going to Mass (not counting infancy and early childhood) communicants holding the communion paten. That is the function of the altar server. As mentioned in other posts, even the Pope’s MC holds the paten, in this case, the cover of the ciborrium, beneath the communicant’s chin or the hands. I need to pay more attention to the other priests distributing Holy Communion during Papal Masses regarding the paten. Of course the CTV (Vatican Television Center) usually shows the Pope or the dome or the choir during Holy Communion, but, I’ll try to keep an eye out for the priests.

 

[DixitDominus]

If someone chooses to receive Communion in the hand what do they do with the communion-plate? Perhaps they could tuck it under their left arm.

One certainly wouldn’t want to do that. From the time the paten is held under the chin of the first Communicant until any Particles are brushed into the chalice by the priest, the paten is to be held parallel to the ground lest the Particles of the Host fall to the ground.