GIRM - Mandatory or Optional?

[CRW]

Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosantum Concilium, General Instruction of the Roman Missal, Chapter IX, Adaptations Within the Competence of Bishops and Bishops Conferences, # 389 and # 390.

Changes to the GIRM required a 2/3 approval of the USCCB and once their decisions have been accorded the recognition of the Apostolic See (Codedex Iuris Canonici, can 838, Section 3.

Cannon 838

Section 1: The ordering and guidance of the sacred liturgy depends solely upon the authority of the Church, namely, that of the Apostolic See and, as provided by law, that of the diocesan Bishop.

1. It is the prerogative of the Apostolic See to regulate the sacred liturgy of the universal Church, to publish liturgical books and review their vernacular translations, and to be watchful that liturgical regulations are everywhere faithfully observed.
2. It pertains to Bishops Conferences to prepare vernacular translations of liturgical books, with appropriate adaptations as allowed by the books themselves and, with the prior review of the Holy See, to publish these translations.

 

[plato3]

Chap 9 GIRM- 386-top of page-second part of paragraph.

Further adaptations entrusted to the judgment of the diocesan bishop or bishop’s conference.

The judgment of the local bishop on adaptations is mentioned.

 

[CRW]

USCCB must approved by a 2/3 vote and still get the Holy Sees approval.

 

[Brendan]

Chap 9 GIRM- 386-top of page-second part of paragraph.

Further adaptations entrusted to the judgment of the diocesan bishop or bishop’s conference.

The judgment of the local bishop on adaptations is mentioned.

Except that the use of glass chalices is specifically prohibited in Redeptionis Sacramentum, which is a Congregational Instruction.

Since it does not provide exceptions, the only authority that could authorize an exception is the issuing Congregation ( the CDWDS) or the Pope himself.

 

[Brendan]

Chap 9 GIRM- 386-top of page-second part of paragraph.

Further adaptations entrusted to the judgment of the diocesan bishop or bishop’s conference.

The judgment of the local bishop on adaptations is mentioned.

But did you read down to #390? Any of those adaptations have to be approved by the Holy See.

1. It is up to the Conferences of Bishops to decide on the adaptations indicated in this General Instruction and in the Order of Mass and, once their decisions have been accorded the *recognitio *of the Apostolic See, to introduce them into the Missal itself. These adaptations include

 

[plato3]

Notice the local bishop or the conference-386-In the cases that I have seen, the judgment of the local bishop in defining the adaptations has been upheld. Rome does give much weight to the judgment of the local ordinary. The bishop does not run to the conference for every little variation that he makes in his own diocese.I don’t think that it was the intent of the GIRM. With all the various bishops that I have known, none were ever taken to task for their personal judgement in regard to adaptations. Some decisions were made in regard to ethnic traditions. If folks do not believe that the bishop does have considerable power in their diocese, they are dreaming. They can complain in writting and in our diocese, the bishop does review all complaints, however, his judgment on various adaptations prevails. He does not always agree with his brother bishops on many minor things.

 

[Walking_Home]

Notice the local bishop or the conference-386-In the cases that I have seen, the judgment of the local bishop in defining the adaptations has been upheld. Rome does give much weight to the judgment of the local ordinary. The bishop does not run to the conference for every little variation that he makes in his own diocese.I don’t think that it was the intent of the GIRM. With all the various bishops that I have known, none were ever taken to task for their personal judgement in regard to adaptations. Some decisions were made in regard to ethnic traditions. If folks do not believe that the bishop does have considerable power in their diocese, they are dreaming. They can complain in writting and in our diocese, the bishop does review all complaints, however, his judgment on various adaptations prevails. He does not always agree with his brother bishops on many minor things.

---

Unless there is a recognitio from Rome—no adaptation has any binding force. I do not know what the bishops you have been familiar with are doing—but unless Rome has given approval—their adaptations are unauthorized.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter%20III

[28.] All liturgical norms that a Conference of Bishops will have established for its territory in accordance with the law are to be submitted to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments for the recognitio, without which they lack any binding force.[65]

 

[Brendan]

Notice the local bishop or the conference-386-In the cases that I have seen, the judgment of the local bishop in defining the adaptations has been upheld.

When they are approved by Rome. Rome has given the Ordinaries certain leaway, such as if their congregations will stand for the Agnus Dei. Those adaptations were approved by Rome and Rome respects the decisions of the Ordinary in such clearly defined circumstances.

Rome does give much weight to the judgment of the local ordinary. The bishop does not run to the conference for every little variation that he makes in his own diocese.I don’t think that it was the intent of the GIRM. With all the various bishops that I have known, none were ever taken to task for their personal judgement in regard to adaptations.

Can you then explain Redemptionis Sacramentum? How much leaway do you feel Bishops have with the directives outlined in that document?

 

[plato3]

Part one.-Agreed. My point was leeway. Some dioceses moved Holy Days on the judgment of their ordinary. We had a Mass of Ordination for a fellow from Africa. There was judgment used by the bishop to allow some of their triditional rite. I had never seen it used before, and probably will never see it again.

 

[plato3]

Part two-On matters concerning the most Holy Eucharist-Redemptionis Sacramentum

#180-If a matter is serious…once again in the judgment of the local bishop. Each and every bishop is different just as each of us are different. Some very minor matters are considered serious by some and some major matters are considered minor by some. What I am trying to say is a great deal of what goes on in all matters in a diocese is a result of the judgment of the local bishop. If you disagree, then we will agree to disagree.

 

[Brendan]

Part two-On matters concerning the most Holy Eucharist-Redemptionis Sacramentum

#180-If a matter is serious…once again in the judgment of the local bishop. Each and every bishop is different just as each of us are different. Some very minor matters are considered serious by some and some major matters are considered minor by some. What I am trying to say is a great deal of what goes on in all matters in a diocese is a result of the judgment of the local bishop. If you disagree, then we will agree to disagree.

Are you trying to claim that the local Bishop could disregard R.S. if he felt it was not “serious”

How about #170 then

177.] “Since he must safeguard the unity of the universal Church, the Bishop is bound to promote the discipline common to the entire Church and therefore to insist upon the observance of all ecclesiastical laws. He is to be watchful lest abuses encroach upon ecclesiastical discipline, especially as regards the ministry of the Word, the celebration of the Sacraments and sacramentals, the worship of God and the veneration of the Saints”.

RS says that the bishop is obligated to insist on the observance of ALL ecclesiastical laws.

But you say the Bishop is NOT so obligated.

How so?

 

[plato3]

We will agree to disagree.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Is there any American diocese where the Bishop or diocese has NOT implemented the GIRM? This comment seems to make no sense, but perhaps I am missing the point.

Not all Bishops implemented it at the same time and some diocese were vacant for a year or more during the original time set for implementation. In those diocese it could not be implemented until a new Bishop was installed and then he determined when that would take place.

 

[Brendan]

We will agree to disagree.

We will? When did I agree to that?

 

[cjaubert]

Not all Bishops implemented it at the same time and some diocese were vacant for a year or more during the original time set for implementation. In those diocese it could not be implemented until a new Bishop was installed and then he determined when that would take place.

So, then, in every single diocese, the GIRM has been implemented, right?

 

[cjaubert]

We will agree to disagree.

I don’t understand this comment. Are you saying that a local bishop may disregard Redemptionis Sacramentum if he feels the matter is not “serious”? Is there ANY guideline AT ALL for his determination of what he may, in his personal belief, find to be serious, or, does he have carte blanche to decide for himself what is serious and what is not serious?

God bless.

 

[CRW]

It is three years old now so I guess some can go three or more years without a Bishop. IMHO, the Bishops implements the parts that they agree on and hold off or ignore changes or abuses to see if any of the lay are smart enough to know the difference. I still believe it is an internal struggle that the USCCB does not approve of the Holly See enforcing guidelines on the USCCB and their power in the US. I see them as CEO’s, now, not teachers of the flock.

I have sorrow in my heart for saying this but the only time I see my Bishop is once a year for confirmation and then he will send someone during the CSA fund raising season. In six years, I have never received a letter concerning spiritual matters, teachings, liturgy - just the need for money. We have never received any instructions of the new General Instructions of the Roman Missal or Instruction on the Eucharist, Redemptionis Sacramentun, As a matter of fact, one of our local priest ask me for a copy off the INTERNET.

Just reading the threads show how non-universal our Catholic Church is today. I travel to North Carolina frequently and find it difficult to believe that I am actually attending a so call Catholic Mass.

Please consider watching the next USCCB conference on EWTN. If you see the Holy Spirit alive in the conference, please email me.