Give me reasons why i am NOT in the reformed christian church?

[godsent]

I want to get a discussion going about WHY WE ARE NOT in the reformed christian church which reformed over 500 years ago?

I sometimes think about history and think they must have had some good reasons as why to reform and break from the catholic church…i would like some reasons as to why i should not join them?

Thanks alot…

god bless

 

[Pjs2ejs]

First off, some of these might not be appropriate as a general brush.

1. They made up their own doctrines (Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide)
2. They deny Christ in the Eucharist
3. Which one would you choose? They have the belief of self interpretation of the Bible rather than by the church (resulting in thousands of different reformed groups)
4. They deny Jesus’ establishment of the His Church with Peter as head.
5. The early church fathers and church history.

After this, I could only address each individual denomination. They are so diverse, they must be discussed one at a time. If you really want to hear it.

Their only legitimate compaint was abuse in the church regarding indulgences , confession, etc. Although it was never condoned by Mother Church, many of her human members have abused their authority. We see that even today.

What would be your reasons for leaving the Church?

 

[DavidFilmer]

godsent:

… WHY WE ARE NOT in the reformed christian church which reformed over 500 years ago?

Well, there’s you #1 reason right there.

I’d rather be part of the Church that FORMED 2000 years ago (at the hands of Our Lord) than part of the Church that RE-FORMED 500 years ago (at the hands of ordinary men)!

 

[Contarini]

godsent:

I want to get a discussion going about WHY WE ARE NOT in the reformed christian church which reformed over 500 years ago?

I sometimes think about history and think they must have had some good reasons as why to reform and break from the catholic church…i would like some reasons as to why i should not join them?

Because schism is a deadly sin. I find myself on the opposite side of the schism from you. The main reason I don’t rejoin the Roman Communion (though there are many others) is that it would involve the same kind of schismatic choice that led people to break with Rome in the first place. However, the early Protestants (and the Catholics who condemned them) thought that the issues involved were matters of spiritual life and death. The first Protestants thought they were ridding the one Church of a parasitic growth (the “papacy” and its concomitant evils of scholastic theology, canon law, etc.). They didn’t think they were setting up a “new” church–not at first anyway.

Reform is one of the great idols of the modern world. You can never reform the Church satisfactorily. Start entering into schism in order to reform things and you will start a chain reaction (as we Protestants have found to our cost).

That, by the way, is one of the reasons that I disagree emphatically with the view often expressed on this board that dissenting Catholics should have the “honesty” to become Protestants. Whatever one may say about someone like Sr. Joan Chittister, her determination to remain Catholic is wholly admirable and pious. Would that Calvin had been of the same mind (Luther and Zwingli and Bucer as well–but for them the situation was a bit murkier at first, as I said above). We might all be better off today.

The Jansenists are a wonderful counter-example. Again, whatever you think of their theology, they showed amazing faith and perseverance in remaining part of the Catholic Church (with the exception of the Dutch group who became “Old Catholics”) even though the Church hierarchy was condemning and persecuting them.

Edwin

Edwin

 

[JSmitty2005]

Contarini:

The main reason I don’t rejoin the Roman Communion (though there are many others) is that it would involve the same kind of schismatic choice that led people to break with Rome in the first place.

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand that at all.

 

[Liberian]

godsent:

I want to get a discussion going about WHY WE ARE NOT in the reformed christian church which reformed over 500 years ago?

I sometimes think about history and think they must have had some good reasons as why to reform and break from the catholic church…i would like some reasons as to why i should not join them?

Godsent,

It is very possible to reform the Church without leaving her. It’s like the difference between arguing with your wife and divorcing her.

Francis of Assisi reformed the Church; Catherine of Siena reformed the Church; and the list goes on.

Much of the breakaway from the Church during the Reformation was political in nature. The German princes didn’t want to pay taxes to Rome any more and so they encouraged the Reformers to form their own churches.

• Liberian

 

[Atreyu]

JSmitty2005:

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand that at all.

I think I can understand it. In Mere Christianity, C. S. Lewis says something along the lines of surely it is the duty of the Church leaders to discuss reintegration. It is not up to the individual parishioner. I’ve recently thought about what it would have been like for normal Catholics during the Western schism, when it would have been very difficult to identify the apostolic faith in the Western Church. In other words, it would have been too hard for the individual Catholic to determine which claimant to the bishop of Rome was the correct bishop of Rome. So what would the individual Catholic do in this situation? Stick to his bishop, and pray that the leaders of the Church figured things out. And that’s exactly what happened!

Contarini’s example is a little bit different. But perhaps she would better server the Lord in staying loyal to the Anglican Church and working for reform, in terms of working towards reintegration to the Catholic Church.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Atreyu:

I think I can understand it. In Mere Christianity, C. S. Lewis says something along the lines of surely it is the duty of the Church leaders to discuss reintegration. It is not up to the individual parishioner. I’ve recently thought about what it would have been like for normal Catholics during the Western schism, when it would have been very difficult to identify the apostolic faith in the Western Church. In other words, it would have been too hard for the individual Catholic to determine which claimant to the bishop of Rome was the correct bishop of Rome. So what would the individual Catholic do in this situation? Stick to his bishop, and pray that the leaders of the Church figured things out. And that’s exactly what happened!

Contarini’s example is a little bit different. But perhaps she would better server the Lord in staying loyal to the Anglican Church and working for reform, in terms of working towards reintegration to the Catholic Church.

I’m sorry, but I don’t think that there’s ever a good reason not to come home to the Church. Many people have returned to the True Faith to have their spouse leave them, to be shunned by their families, or to be executed in a country where it’s illegal to be Catholic. All these reasons seem much better, yet they still don’t suffice. It really comes down to valid sacraments which can be found nowhere else. To not convert would be a grave disservice to oneself that could put your eternal salvation at risk considering that you’re not invincibly ignorant. Actually, now that I think of it, the more that Anglicans convert, the more the Anglican leadership would work towards full communion. Otherwise, they’d lose their flock altogether.