Give me your best argument AGAINST becoming Catholic.

[TxGodfollower]

Examples that affect Catholic doctrine?

Jon

Nothing that contradicts Catholic doctrine, atleast not that I know of. I am talking about stuff that it says that are inconsistent with other books or geography/historical facts. Crazy example: One book says a person died on a Monday, other says the same person died on a Thursday. Both couldn’t be right, so (I believe) both couldn’t be Scripture.

 

[pablope]

Evidence of new dogmas added from time to time: The Immaculate Conception of Mary (1854), Papal Infallibility (perhaps 1302, certainly 1870), the Assumption of Mary (1950).

How about redefining the sacraments, ditching apostolic succession, introducing SS, callilng the pope anti-christ…do you think these are nothing new also?

None of these three was required belief for Roman Catholics before those dates. Catholics who lived before those pious beliefs were made dogma were free to believe or disbelieve them. Now, it is required.

 

[TxGodfollower]

What is wrong with making IC or the Assumption a belief to be held by all, so that there is one unified belief?

There is nothing wrong with a united belief, but the problem I think they were trying to address is the creation of doctrines.

 

[JonNC]

Nothing that contradicts Catholic doctrine, atleast not that I know of. I am talking about stuff that it says that are inconsistent with other books or geography/historical facts. Crazy example: One book says a person died on a Monday, other says the same person died on a Thursday. Both couldn’t be right, so (I believe) both couldn’t be Scripture.

Matthew 28:
Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow. 4And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men. 5But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6He is not here, for he has risen, as he said.

Luke 24:
But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared. 2And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel. 5And as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living among the dead? 6He is not here, but has risen.

John 20
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. 2So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.” 3So Peter went out with the other disciple, and they were going toward the tomb. 4Both of them were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5And stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in. 6Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths lying there, 7and the face cloth, which had been on Jesus’a head, not lying with the linen cloths but folded up in a place by itself.

Was there an earthquake or not?
Was there an angel or two men?
Did Mary Magdelene go to the tomb herself, or with “the other Mary”?

Jon

 

[pablope]

There is nothing wrong with a united belief, but the problem I think they were trying to address is the creation of doctrines.

I am curios…can you show how doctrines are created? Can you give an example?

 

[Seraphim73]

Name some, then. It doesn’t make sense to me that God would give us Scripture that lies.

Pardon me but I never said that. Don’t put words in my mouth. If you interview two witnesses to an event you may get two very different versions of what happened. The facts presented by each witness may be different. That doesn’t change the objective reality of what happened and it doesn’t mean anyone is “lying.”

Either way look at the accounts of the Transfiguration or when Jesus asks the Apostles “who do you say that I am?” or when Jesus teaches about divorce or the Lords Prayer or the Last Supper and you’ll see clear differences in the accounts given. That’s just off the top of my head.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Nothing that contradicts Catholic doctrine, atleast not that I know of. I am talking about stuff that it says that are inconsistent with other books or geography/historical facts. Crazy example: One book says a person died on a Monday, other says the same person died on a Thursday. Both couldn’t be right, so (I believe) both couldn’t be Scripture.

Citation?

 

[TxGodfollower]

Pardon me but I never said that. Don’t put words in my mouth. If you interview two witnesses to an event you may get two very different versions of what happened. The facts presented by each witness may be different. That doesn’t change the objective reality of what happened and it doesn’t mean anyone is “lying.”

Either way look at the accounts of the Transfiguration or when Jesus asks the Apostles “who do you say that I am?” or when Jesus teaches about divorce or the Lords Prayer or the Last Supper and you’ll see clear differences in the accounts given. That’s just off the top of my head.

I didn’t meant to imply that you had. My Apologies.

Citation?

The ones I could remember off hand. Have more at home in my study notes.

“As water quenches a flaming fire, so almsgiving atones for sins” Sirach 3:30
compared to
Leviticus 17:11 “Because the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you, that you may make atonement with it upon the altar for your souls, and the blood may be for an expiation of the soul.”

Tobit’s life (Tobit chapter 14) being shorter than what he claims to have experienced (Tobit 1:1-5) by ~80 years.

Judith 1:10 King Nabuchodonosor of Assyria compared to 2 Kings 24:1 King Nabuchodonosor of Babylon.

“And when you are come into Babylon, you shall be there many years, and for a long time, even to seven generations: and after that I will bring you away from thence with peace.” Baruch 6:2 compared to Jeremiah 25 ‘Seventy years’

 

[JonNC]

I didn’t meant to imply that you had. My Apologies.

The ones I could remember off hand. Have more at home in my study notes.

“As water quenches a flaming fire, so almsgiving atones for sins” Sirach 3:30
compared to
Leviticus 17:11 “Because the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you, that you may make atonement with it upon the altar for your souls, and the blood may be for an expiation of the soul.”

Tobit’s life (Tobit chapter 14) being shorter than what he claims to have experienced (Tobit 1:1-5) by ~80 years.

Judith 1:10 King Nabuchodonosor of Assyria compared to 2 Kings 24:1 King Nabuchodonosor of Babylon.

“And when you are come into Babylon, you shall be there many years, and for a long time, even to seven generations: and after that I will bring you away from thence with peace.” Baruch 6:2 compared to Jeremiah 25 ‘Seventy years’

Are these more significant than the three I posted regarding the resurrection?

Jon

 

[TxGodfollower]

Was there an earthquake or not?
Was there an angel or two men?
Did Mary Magdelene go to the tomb herself, or with “the other Mary”?

Jon

Yes there was an earthquake.
There were 2 angels
Both Marys went.

The Gospels give perspective, like a witness in a trial. This an example of perspective.
It is their writing style, their showing of what is important. There is nothing wrong with that. What would be a problem is if one of the Gospels said Jesus was still in the tomb when they got there, they preformed the burial ritual, and the next day Jesus appeared to them.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

I didn’t meant to imply that you had. My Apologies.

The ones I could remember off hand. Have more at home in my study notes.

“As water quenches a flaming fire, so almsgiving atones for sins” Sirach 3:30
compared to
Leviticus 17:11 “Because the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you, that you may make atonement with it upon the altar for your souls, and the blood may be for an expiation of the soul.”

Tobit’s life (Tobit chapter 14) being shorter than what he claims to have experienced (Tobit 1:1-5) by ~80 years.

Judith 1:10 King Nabuchodonosor of Assyria compared to 2 Kings 24:1 King Nabuchodonosor of Babylon.

“And when you are come into Babylon, you shall be there many years, and for a long time, even to seven generations: and after that I will bring you away from thence with peace.” Baruch 6:2 compared to Jeremiah 25 ‘Seventy years’

Funny, I don’t see someone dying on either a Monday or a Thursday.

 

[Seraphim73]

Yes there was an earthquake.
There were 2 angels
Both Marys went.

The Gospels give perspective, like a witness in a trial. This an example of perspective.
It is their writing style, their showing of what is important. There is nothing wrong with that. What would be a problem is if one of the Gospels said Jesus was still in the tomb when they got there, they preformed the burial ritual, and the next day Jesus appeared to them.

For the Transfiguration Luke says that Jesus took the disciples up the mountain after 8 days and Mark and Matthew say after 6 days. That is certainly no more substantive than the examples you give.

 

[JonNC]

Yes there was an earthquake.
There were 2 angels
Both Marys went.

that’s not what John says. He says: * Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. 2So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him.*”
She, singular.

The Gospels give perspective, like a witness in a trial. This an example of perspective.
It is their writing style, their showing of what is important. There is nothing wrong with that. What would be a problem is if one of the Gospels said Jesus was still in the tomb when they got there, they preformed the burial ritual, and the next day Jesus appeared to them.

It seems to me that in Judith, and in Tobit, the importance is not what the history is, but the perspective. And wonderful perspective they are.

Jon

 

[House_Harkonnen]

Yep, the Apostles taught all those points.

No, they and the entire church was completely silent on many of those points for hundreds of years.

 

[Seraphim73]

The evidence IMO is simple. Did the apostles and the early church teach all 3000 or so points of teaching in the current RC Cathecism? If not then new teaching has been added. In a couple years there is going to be even more points that have been added on. I cannot assent to teaching that may be added on at some point in the future.

Well lets be honest Lutherans have added teachings as well.

 

[House_Harkonnen]

Well lets be honest Lutherans have added teachings as well.

No. All the teachings of Lutheranism were laid down finally in 1580, nothing new has been added since. And the teachings of Lutheranism as laid down in 1580 were consistent with the teachings of the early church.

 

[Seraphim73]

No. All the teachings of Lutheranism were laid down finally in 1580, nothing new has been added since. And the teachings of Lutheranism as laid down in 1580 were consistent with the teachings of the early church.

Well that’s demonstrably false. Maybe the subject for another thread.

 

[guanophore]

The same things that are controlling everybody else.

Past experience. Societal Obligations. Parental Influence. Education. Geography. Language. Past choices. Family of Origin.

Fear.

Shame.

Once I understood how much fear and shame drive decision making… Wow. The world becomes a different place.

This is so true, cheese. Jesus knew this about the human psyche, which is why He instituted the healing sacrament of reconciliation. It is the single most effective cure for this condition.

 

[guanophore]

I am a Protestant in RCIA this fall and my daughter is in RCIC.  I haven't posted here since the last time I was seriously considering RCIA, but didn't go through with it that time.  Now, a couple of years later, I am!  But I still have questions/doubts.  I suppose that is what RCIA is for- to wrestle with the issues alongside the teachers and other candidates.

Good to have you here Mom. Hope you will not hesitate to bring your “hesitations” here! CAF is a goldmine for people that have questions and doubts.

I will say that despite any hesitations, the Eucharist draws me.  I really don't have any other way to describe it.  Does that sound odd?

Not at all! the Holy Spirit is drawing you into the Real Presence.

Glad to hear you are responding to His grace.

I am also drawn to the Miraculous Medal/Mary.  I have my deceased Grandmother's medal and wonder if it is ok for a non Catholic to wear it?

Thank you for any opinions,
Stephanie

Mary is the mother of the Church, so as a disciple of Jesus, you are also her offspring. She is a resource for all the disciples of her son. Wear the medal, and ask for your grandmother’s prayers, as well as those of our Blessed Mother.

“Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus.”. Rev. 12:17

 

[truthseeker32]

Best argument against becoming Roman Catholic? Catholic Answers Forums of course

In all seriousness, though, I will tell you briefly why I became Orthodox rather than Roman Catholic.

I began searching for the true faith back in 2009. I went to RCIA classes regularly three times, but could never commit despite my love for the Roman Catholic tradition. I studied church history and theology extensively for a few years and I am now even getting my masters in church history. I met many brilliant scholars and clergy over the past few years who helped me along the way. Ultimately, I became convinced, in light of my prayer, studies, and conversations with scholars and apologists both Catholic and non-Catholic, that Orthodoxy is true.