Give up everything and do a St Francis?

[DarinHamel]

Wolseley:

And do you really want to go door to door and beg for your food like Francis did? This isn’t the 12th century any more, and people don’t have the same idea about Christian charity as they did then…you go begging door to door now, and they’re going to consider you a dangerous nuisance; at best they’ll call the cops, at worst they might even try to poison you with something put into the table scraps.

I think people today need and want to be far more charitable than they did it the 12th Century. Can you imagine a Catholic getting a visit from a begger in robes with the rosary clearly visible. I bet most would find it the most inspiring thing they might have seen in years. Even ex-Catholic and even protestants would pause thinking somebody was taking all that Catholic stuff seriously. St Francis used to just go to town a beg because of the power of witness and called it the best preaching.

 

[Edwin1961]

kevb:

How is renouncing the distractions of consumer society in favor of a life of poverty and consecration selfish? (Read Luke 18:22-30.) If one has the potential to become holy through God’s grace, and he feels like isolating himself to do so is the way in which he is called to achieve this…he achieves much indeed for obeying God. I wouldn’t call St. Anthony of Egypt, St. Benedict, or any of the other desert fathers or consecrated hermits selfish by any means. They were great men who left their comfort zones to serve Christ in a radical way.
-Kevin

And besides, the people sought out the desert fathers for spiritual advice and guidance BECASUE they were away from the society of that time.

It applies then and could apply again now.

 

[Edwin1961]

Who are the saints of this era
First of all John Paul II the Great, and maybe even someone who is STILL doing the Lord’s work: Fr. Benedict Groschel.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

DarinHamel:

Does anybody else ever get the impulse to give away all thier possessions, put on a robe, not join an Order and do a St Francis in this modern world?

Similar, but in the way of St. Francis. Although a great admirer of the saint, my persuits would be more towards the monastic style of St. Benedict. In fact, I think I was born about 500-1000 years too late.

PF

 

[JCPhoenix]

DarinHamel:

I think what were are seeing in the postings here are the classic differences in opinions between actives and contemplatives. Active think that contemplatives are wasting their time being monks. The Martha and Mary story.

I think in every age that is dangerous like ours saints arise like Benedict and Francis. (I am still waiting for the saint to come in this age.)

The reason for homelessness determines how helpful it is. The homeless guy going from shelter to shelter because he doesn’t want to work or the heroin addicts are different than the mendicant who is trying to set an example of holiness by serving the poor by living among them.

First of all, I need to take issue with the non-issue between Actives and Contemplatives. I am currently discerning a call to religious life and I have not seen that attitude from any orthodox consecrated religious. I have found many orders that blend the Contemplative lifestyle with active apostolates.

Saints of this age? Hello? Mother Therese? The children from Fatima? Pope John Paul II? I know there are others, but Mother Theresa stands out the most in relation to St. Francis and St. Clare.

Thirdly, giving away everything and becoming homeles…hmm…let’s see. OK< fine, live among the poor. There’s no problem with that. But then who supports you? Who pays for your own meals and in what way will you contribute to society? There aren’t enough beds as it is for the homeless…and so you’re going to take a good life and give it up?

God has provided for all of us here on this thread, I imagine. If we have access to computers, then we are in the top percentage, financially, in the world. How sad that is.

Yes, we can do away with a lot, but it would be better for us to maintain our homes and spend our free time with the poor and work to start programs and provide shelters and food for the destitute. We can do this without putting additional burden on the taxpayers.

I actually had a customer who decided to give everything away. He literally opened his home to the street people, and was free with his possessions. Do you know what happened? He called himself a “street corner preacher”, gave his car to a drug dealer who never returned it and instead put it in a river, and had his home invaded by the same riffraff. Now, these were not the destitute…they were drug dealers and they were making money out of his house. As soon as they had his roof they focused on cleaning him out while making drug money. They threatened his life.

He was not a part of an order or a church…he did this on his own.

So the Chruch calls us to be a community. Fine to give away your things and take a vow of poverty…but do so intelligently. Don’t add to society’s burdens. Different orders are supported by the Church, by parishoners, and through their apostolates, and they do not live “well” by our standards. In exchange for organization, they provide for themselves AND others and live out the lives of the saints who went before them.

There is a reason we are first called to discernment before we are called to the radical leap to give it all away. Even God needs time to set us up to follow his call.

 

[kevb]

DarinHamel:

I think what were are seeing in the postings here are the classic differences in opinions between actives and contemplatives. Active think that contemplatives are wasting their time being monks. The Martha and Mary story.

I think in every age that is dangerous like ours saints arise like Benedict and Francis. (I am still waiting for the saint to come in this age.) How much more dangerous is it to be a mendicant today than a Jewish one in Roman occupied Israel. Jesus set the example I want to completely follow. Others weren’t condemned for not giving away eveything in Christs and the Apostles times, but they never discouraged those who did either.

The reason for homelessness determines how helpful it is. The homeless guy going from shelter to shelter because he doesn’t want to work or the heroin addicts are different than the mendicant who is trying to set an example of holiness by serving the poor by living among them.

I’d say if this is something you feel strongly called to…pray about it a lot, trust in Christ and see where it takes you. If it doesn’t work out or you have a bad experience and you end up coming back, that doesn’t mean you’re weak or that you failed.

I feel like doing something drastic with my own life as well, but I might end up needing the structured discipline of a monastery. I’m 31 and single. I lived a dreary, prideful existance of alcohol, drug abuse and women for the better part of a decade. Then I had a strong conversion experience about 3 years ago and completely changed my life. I’ve been living and working on a farm now for the past two years and practice total chastity, but still need a lot of work on charity and humility. I’ve lost touch with most of my former friends and have no real family obligations. My next step is trying to figure out where God wants me. I owe Him big time. I plan to seek out a spiritual director. Have you done this yet? I think it could be helpful.
-Kevin

 

[DarinHamel]

kevb,
Yep I have a spiritual advisor and the support of a bishop if I choose this lifestyle.

JCPhoenix,
How would I be a burden to society? Was St Francis a burden? Would he be nowadays if he were here? There are many reason not to embrace total poverty and they all make perfect sense to the worldly. There is only one reason to do it and that is to imitate Jesus as closely as possible.

I see a public witness and you see a burden. Why would I stay at a shelter? Francis wouldn’t. JCPhoenix dont take this wrong but you sound frightened. I pray that I am willing to die for my beliefs without being so stupid as aiding drug dealers. I pray to have the strength to die before I do that.
Darin

 

[cecelia]

I’ve had that urge to chuck it all, and join a contemplative order. But contemplative orders are really not running away from the world, so to speak. Actually,they have a truer sense of what life is all about and about the illusory nature of the world that we live in.The contemplative orders are really on the front lines now. They are the prayer warriors.

The world is now so materialistic that it’s becoming deadening. And I don’t know about you all but have you ever noticed the dress of people in the malls? All the women and girls are trying to be sexy, and the men and boys look as though they’re readying for some kind of pagan service. It seems as though the rush to get more, the desire to attain more status is just turning humans into something definitely not human.

For this reason, I’ve thought about just chucking it all, but I won’t, but I’m definitely noticing that material things are losing their grip with me as I am becoming more detached from the materialism of this world.

 

[DarinHamel]

As it stands now next Easter I will vow the following with a couple other guys maybe. I wrote these and they are not for total renouncement and my bishop approved them. I’d still keep my job and house at first, unless something else presented itself

I take these vows because I desire to live a holy life of penance and prayer. Jesus says, “Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on a rock. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been built solidly on rock.” (Matt 7:24-25) Jesus is my hope, and to believe in Him is to obey Him and I pray through the grace of God to live my life in conformity with the house that is the Catholic Church and on the rock that is Jesus Christ.

Jesus says, “If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matt 19:21) To live without possessions is to live unattached to this world and its seductions, and to center our hopes in heaven. I take the vow of poverty and I pray that poverty through Gods grace will purify my intellect to think of God only.

Jesus says, “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.” (Matt 5:8) To be chaste is to open oneself to love all equally without respect to personal differences, and to realize that God is in all, through all and embracing all by His love. I take the vow of chastity because and pray that chastity through Gods grace may purify my feelings to love God only.

Jesus says, “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.” (Matt 16:18) Again He says, “Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.” (Luke 10:16) To be obedient is to surrender our willful natures and achieve a type of that freedom which was enjoyed in the Garden before the fall. I take the vow of obedience to the Catholic Church and pray that obedience through Gods grace may purify my will to obey God only.

Jesus says, “But I say unto you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.” (Matt 5:39) Non-violence is the key to all the power in the universe united under Christ’s banner of peace. The blood of the martyrs testifies to this truth. I take the added vow of non-violence and I pray that non-violence through Gods grace may bring me and the world the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I will do this by the grace and for the glory of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

 

[nobody]

God bless you for what you are considering with these vows. I will be praying for you.

One concern: After you take your vows, I hope you can go into a church office or library sometimes to use the internet, and log into this forum to upate us with your reflections. I think you came here for a reason - to be a witness to us as well.

 

[DarinHamel]

Nobody,
If others join me then I would keep my place and job. I am starting a website for my church so I would keep my computer too.

 

[Egg4christ]

I’d love to, but then again, i’m seventeen

 

[DarinHamel]

Egg4christ:

I’d love to, but then again, i’m seventeen

Do you graduate next year? I was in the Army when I was 17. Don’t sell your youth short.
Darin

 

[Santa_Cruz]

I’ve got a great book for you to read.

Stand on Your Own Feet, Natalie Smith

Finding a Contemplative Spitit in Everyday Life.

Natalie Smith is cofounder of the Lay Cistercians of South Florida under the spirituel guidance of Father Basik Pennington, O.C.S.O.
She is also involved in vocation work for Gethsemani Abbey in Kentucky and other Trappist and Benedictine houses in the United States

 

[DarinHamel]

Thanks I’ll check that book out.

 

[Edwin1961]

Darin,
I just read over the vows that you would be taking. Is there anything to suggest a devotion to the Blessed Mother? And being an Byzantine Catholic, we tend to be called to a monastic lifestyle throughout our daily life regardless of vocation. You may want to look into the Desert Fathers and other Byzantine Monastics that may give you insight, since monasticism started in the Catholic East.
This is why I may be heavily drawn to a possible life like the one you are describing.
My pastor seem me for of a monastic dispite other issues I am fighting and suffering with.

 

[DarinHamel]

Edwin,
What do you mean devotion to Mary? I am Roman Catholic and take that for granted maybe. I pray the rosary daily and have a big Mary statue the colar of antiqed bronze in my front yard. How would devotion to Mary be in an order?
Darin

 

[delorean_boy]

hey Darin,
I think what your doing is great.
I think you may be interested in a new group of Franciscans.
the are called the Franciscans of the primitive observance.
I know two of the friars and they are excellent. They follow the rule of St Francis to a T, begging for food, hitching rides, all that.
They are the real deal thats for sure.

 

[ncjohn]

DarinHamel:

I have joined the Secualar Franciscans. The group I joined has an average age of 70. They meet once a month and do nothing. I have heard of more active and younger groups but they are not close to me. I also checked out the Franciscan Monastery here in Detroit, the Fr Casey one and it was too ritzy for me. If I give up my job and house then I want to be totally like St Francis and Jesus. No place to call home and penniless.

I feel called to contemplation and poverty. I want to stay in Detroit too. I was born here and maybe for a reason.

Our local SFO fraternity is also small and mostly elderly. We have a group of us in our late forties to early fifties in candidacy, but still no “youthful idealism” to provide the kind of drive to get good action going.

I agree with your posts that there has to be a good mixture of contemplation, to find what you’re supposed to be doing, and action to make a difference. There are those who are primarily called to one or the other, but the overwhelming majority of us require both.

Have you considered becoming a Franciscan Brother? It is another beautiful way to serve without becoming an actual priest. If something was to happen to my wife, that is something that I would be considering.

As far as the idea that someone following in Francis’ actual footsteps today becoming a burden on society, I have to agree with you that Francis’ life was one of service with no demands on anyone. It is quite possible that a single person with a rational witness to that lifestyle could reignite a devotion comparable to what Francis did. God knows, without denigrating any of the holy saints we have seen, that a new call to simplicity and conversion, especially in this “watch out for number 1” society we live in, is desperately needed.

Don’t give up your dreams Darin. You sound like a saint in the making, and my prayers are with you.

Peace,

 

[DarinHamel]

delorean_boy:

hey Darin,
I think what your doing is great.
I think you may be interested in a new group of Franciscans.
the are called the Franciscans of the primitive observance.
I know two of the friars and they are excellent. They follow the rule of St Francis to a T, begging for food, hitching rides, all that.
They are the real deal thats for sure.

Wow, what a group! I am going to research them more! Thats exactly what I want to do! They are my new example to the naysayers!
Thank you, thank you,
God Bless
Darin