Giving Priests the Benefit of the Doubt

Status
Not open for further replies.
Actually, there are really not that many places in the rubrics of the Mass that call for "these or similar words’. Especially since 2011, there have been eliminations of places (for example, this is no longer found at the start of the Lords Prayer, though it existed in the ‘old’ translation), but many places that allowed ‘these or similar words’ were specifically limited to "Masses with Children’ which somehow ‘spread over’ into Masses with adults but were never actually written into the rubrics as such.
 
ONE - Holy - Catholic - Apostolic.

There is no room or allowance for the radical deviation that is so often perpetrated upon poorly catechized congregants.

The holy sacrifice of the mass should be replicable and identifiable in every church at every service that is is ever offered.

The fact that it is not is a pity.
 
Until people experience a Mass which is really, really ‘off’, they usually do give priests the benefit of the doubt. After all, many of us grew up in the 70s and 80s so we heard and saw some crazy stuff, and as it appeared to quiet down we were just thankful to have priests “Mostly” say the red and do the black, even if we know one priest would always manage to substitute “God” for "His’, or another would change one or two things, such as, “Happy are we who gather round the table” instead of “Happy are those called to the supper of the Lamb”.

But if you only hear the baptismal promises (no other ‘Creed’ of any kind) during the Easter season, if the Eucharistic prayer has words from prayer 2, 3, Reconciliation, plus ad libs from nowhere, “He took the cup and thanked You for Your Faithfulness. He gave it to His family, His Friends and said, Take and drink this in memory of Me, because you are loved so much”, etc., well, then, it’s awfully hard to say, “It doesn’t matter” because yes, it does matter.

It matters because the priest (who does know better, as he after all has the GIRM, in many cases is over 50 or 60 and is not ‘unfamiliar’ with the words of Mass) is being disobedient. It matters because all over the diocese, and other dioceses, other people are able to have full and active participation in the Mass, along with millions, even billions, of Catholics who are praying the same prayers, in unison, in UNITY, while because an individual priest is so certain he needs to make the Mass reflect his own desires, deprives his flock of that participation with others. We aren’t saying the same words, and because of the omissions or the emphases in many cases, we aren’t even having the same focus that is called for throughout the Catholic world. So it isn’t fair, and it isn’t right.

And while I understand an older priest who might slip up (we’re only human after all), or a priest who has one or two little personal quirks which overall don’t really change the Mass, the real danger comes from people taking it as, "because it doesn’t ‘really’ invalidate, it isn’t just something that can be ‘tolerated’, it becomes something that has to be accepted, nay, celebrated.

You get people (seriously, you do) who go on and on to others about how Father X’s Mass is ‘so much better than over at other parishes’. You get them feeling that because Father ‘ditches the rubrics’ that they can 'ditch what THEY don’t like." After all, isn’t it about one’s personal conscience etc?

Does this happen to everybody? Of course it doesn’t. But it happens to some, and it leads to chaos, and quite often to children who have grown up with such leaving. After all, if the PRIEST doesn’t listen to HIS superiors and does what he wants, why shouldn’t they do what they want? If Catholicism was really what it was claimed to be, people would be trying to be as obedient as they could be, but if priests and lay people ignore the rules, laugh about disobeying them because ‘they know better’, no wonder that as the children grow they ignore rules and laugh about disobedience because they, too, ‘know better’. The huge group of ‘nones’ we are seeing didn’t come from a vacuum.
 
In the 1970s, Let it Be by The Beatles was played in Church. I knew the words and I sang along. It should never have been done. The mass is about prayer and worship in the House of God. And everything in the mass has to be about that. Anything that distracts the congregation should be eliminated. Anything that does not inspire and elevate the minds of all present should be eliminated.
 
That is 100% factual. According to published reports, the Nones see the Church as too restrictive and some say that science has convinced them to make the decision to become Nones. This is good for atheism and pagan living.
 
I really only care if the priest says this is my body and this is my blood. To me the rest is just the personal preference of the priest and I am fine with that.
 
Until people experience a Mass which is really, really ‘off’, they usually do give priests the benefit of the doubt. After all, many of us grew up in the 70s and 80s so we heard and saw some crazy stuff, and as it appeared to quiet down we were just thankful to have priests “Mostly” say the red and do the black, even if we know one priest would always manage to substitute “God” for "His’, or another would change one or two things, such as, “Happy are we who gather round the table” instead of “Happy are those called to the supper of the Lamb”.
It is also worth noting that priests take an oath which states they will “celebrate faithfully and reverently the mysteries of Christ handed down by the Church, especially the sacrifice of the Eucharist and the sacrament of Reconciliation”.

This is a solemn oath before God. Priests who mess with the mass and other sacraments are risking their eternal soul for violating this oath. As are bishops who knowingly fail to correct their priests when they take such liberties. Is it worth risking your soul to avoid referring to God as “him” or riding your hoverboard down the aisle?
 
Follow protocol. First talk with the priest. Then pastor if needed and if that priest wasn’t the pastor. Then if still needed, the diocese.
 
I really only care if the priest says this is my body and this is my blood. To me the rest is just the personal preference of the priest and I am fine with that.
But the Church says otherwise. The Church has rubrics and priests should follow them to the best of their ability. I find it very distracting when a priest decides to change the words to suit him. I’m not talking about accidentally misspeaking, but where the priest deliberately changes the wording. We have one retired priest who always says “sisters and brothers.” It mat be a small thing but it is significant enough to him that he says it this way at every Mass he celebrates.
 
40.png
Pitcairn17:
The cited edwest advice makes no provision for the person to make sure their “complaint” is in fact a founded one.
Fortunately, most pews don’t have “flag” buttons . . . 😱🤯🤣
Could you imagine?! 😁😰
 
I try to! Though yes, I can’t help when I see things that I know are wrong, judging the action. E.g. a Mass I attended recently, not my parish, had I think 6 what appeared to be clear glass vessels used for the Precious Blood, but they were as far as I could see from 7 or so meters away, in the shape of secular use wine goblets - and all were identical to each other.

So some years ago, due to seeing various things which I knew were not right or didn’t seem right, but still caused my unease and searching for Church documents about the same etc., I just found it easier to not attend Mass outside my own parish., even if I have to drive across town to go to Mass. I don’t intend to list all the things I’ve seen over the years either.

But recently in another thread, I did relate the time when a priest wasn’t aware he was leaving out the words “like the dewfall” in E.PII, and only after it was brought to his attention did he realize, explain, and amend his larger print typewritten notes.

So I think it is always good to give them the benefit of the doubt - they may not have been properly trained, thought what/how they were doing things was right/ok etc., or a habit formed from back in the 70/80’s, or simply human error, or ignorance.
 
I think that, yes, it’s partly the power trip that people get from picking things apart.

I also think that too many of us (“us” as in members of this society) approach Mass as consumerists in a consumeristic culture. How many times have you heard someone refer to whether or not they “got something” out of church, as though it’s the church’s (or Church’s) job to fulfill their every need and expectation? Or how often do people approach the Mass like they’ve been to a movie and can discuss how the lead actor performed?

One of my favorite priests uses the analogy of a symphony. Parishioners are not in the audience viewing a performance. We are the performers, with the priest conducting.

I think it helps and humbles us to recognize that we’re as responsible for the Mass as the priest is. Gulp . . . . 😳
 
Last edited:
I guess you missed my other comment where I said I prefer that the priest says the black and does the red.
That is my preference and I have complained about masses in the car on the way home.
My point is as long as the mass is valid I am grateful to recieve the Eucharist.
 
Last edited:
Our Pastor was just talking about the need to reintroduce practices of Catholicism as some parishioners don’t seem to be as knowledgeable as they should be. Not sure if this is because of decrease of Catholic schools or not. In school, our nuns ensured we were well educated in our faith. There are not that many nuns anymore, even in Catholic schools. Overall, perhaps people have become more lax as society overall has become more lax. It’s a balancing act for priests, I’m sure, as they want to include and encourage younger generations.
 
Last edited:
It seems that at one time or another, we all have some frivolous complaint about something.
Memo to all: We go to Mass to worship and give glory to God. It is all about God. Not us. Not the priest. Not the music minister. Or whatever.
I offer some prayers for us, all, today as we move forward in this life.
Let us praise God and give glory to God in all that we say and do.
Let us love and serve one another as brothers and sisters in this world.
Thank God for priests! 🙏❤️🙏
 
Mike, you are making a big deal out of nothing. What you have described is something too significant to concern yourself with. Why is it such a big issue to you?
 
The Church is not fine with that. The priest should not be allowed any personal preference. The mass as constructed by the Church, has a proper form.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top