Giving up everything you own

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It greatly depends on your vocation in life. I for example have a wife and children to support. It would be irresponsible and uncharitable to give away all of my possessions and they be indigent as a result. However of course it would be also irresponsible as a Christian to live a extravagant lifestyle even with a family to support. Which is why a portion of our income should go to the Church and charitable causes to assist those truly in need.

If my family is starving to death because I gave it all away, I am messing up. If my family is living in a mansion I am also probably still messing up. (Of course there are examples of those people who are materially very wealthy such as St. Katherine Drexel’s family who despite living in a mansion had the homeless often come to free dinners and poured out a lot of their wealth for the poor, in such cases I am not going to be the one to judge them)
 
Cajunjoy, yesterday, spoke about having 300 books
Walls of books -
Then decided to “ clean house “ or “ Spring Cleaning “

Imagine pruning all that from off your tree !

There’s people on YouTube that help you with this process -
They call it - D E - C L U T T E R I N G 😩
 
No but Jesus did. Even if we infer hyperbole, he still said it - and on numerous occasions.

As the doctrine developed, it became less stringent than the earliest idealistic phase in the Jerusalem church, when the magisterium did seem to expect every believer to live like those in religious orders do today by sharing property in common.

Later on, this was designated a vocation for those committed to the “counsels of perfection”…and that’s a legitimate development of doctrine but Jesus would appear to have been far more hardline and uncompromising.

The admonition to renounce one’s possessions is about looking at one’s use of goods and land in a different way, from that which is conventionally the case. Jesus also referred to it in Matthew 5:3 as being “poor in spirit”. The question is this: do we view property - realty, chattel, whatever - beyond what we truly need to survive as an “absolute”, unconditioned personal right without any concomitant social obligations to others?

Jesus and the traditional doctrine of the Church gives an affirmative “no”. The fact that we have income, corporation and in some countries land value taxation also indicates that only the most extreme kind of libertarian capitalists today would see property in this absolute way. But even those of us who don’t, and who gladly pay our taxes to be used for the public good, can still fall victim to selfish use of our personal wealth.

One part of it, is about living without being inordinately attached to material objects. This is the “spiritual” or “mystical” dimension emphasized by the Gospel of Matthew.

The other element, is the one stressed by Luke 6:2 and in the verse we are discussing, which has to do with an actual social issue about the hoarding of goods and resources, as reflected in the communitarian church economics reflected in Acts 2:44-45.

Behind all of this lies a theological concept which regards the goods of the earth as destined for the succour humankind as a whole, rather than just for privileged individuals.

While the verse in question may not refer solely to physical possessions (you can possess, or cling, to outmoded ways of thought and intangible things as well), the early church understood this as an injunction to relinquish private ownership of property in favour of a communalized ecclesiastical ownership dependent upon need.

Church doctrine in later years, while adapting it pragmatically to fit changed circumstances and prevailing social structures, retained this fundamental idea in its natural law doctrine through preaching that in time of grave need, superabundant property becomes in principle, if not in secular law, common again; such that if the poor succour their needs from the superabundance of the rich, it isn’t considered to be the sin of theft because its owed to them by divine law.

The church has always, therefore, denied that private property is an absolute, unconditional right.

And we as laity, even if we don’t and can’t go the full-hog like monks and nuns, are nevertheless bound by a grave obligation and enormously high ethical standard owing to this.
 
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If the meaning is taken literally, there are a lot of us, including (or especially?) religious who take vows of poverty. But taken in the spiritual sense the anagogical meaning might be that giving up “everything you own” is not a call to dispose of all your property, but to eliminate your attachment to worldly things - giving up property does not guarantee giving up attachment to the world.

There is a lot of each of us, whether we are rich or poor, in the Rich Young Man who lamented he could not follow Jesus because he had so many possessions
Pax et bonum!
 
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My brother was voluntarily homeless for about 6 months. It didn’t make him any happier. I myself would be content to earn more and become richer 🤑
 
Volunteer homeless ? That’s pretty drastic.
You mean, no shelter, on the streets ?
What city ?
Did he beg for money - from working people.
Or doing research for a book ?
 
Thanks. It took about two years but he finally straightened out a bit. He doesn’t live in the city anymore.
 
Occasionally I bring up this point in various threads, but it’s definitely a tiny minority point of view here–which, frankly, is surprising. I agree with you.

A quick story to illustrate the issue: Once I participated in a parish program where we would go to each other’s houses and meet. So one time we went to the house of a guy who owned a plumbing business. This was a palacial house–it even had a fountain in the foyer! During the evening he mentioned that most of his workers were Latino, and that they suffered in the winter because they didn’t have proper coats. So…it was all I could do to ask him why he wasn’t paying his workers enough to buy coats when he was living in a palace bought with their labor. He, of course, didn’t see any disconnect.

I also see a problem with Catholics who largely have bought into the Protestant idea that if you somehow acquire wealth it’s a sign of God’s favor. So instead of a negative thing, it becomes a positive thing. Sad, as our Great Leader would say.
 
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It’s pretty common. People choose to follow and preach the teachings of Jesus that are convenient to them. Not only Jesus’s teachings, but also the church’s. Of course it’s easy to preach against homosexuality of it doesn’t affect you, etc.
 
Because I think it is rather self-evident, my friend. Would I be writing this post if I’d given up everything? Have I, in any way, suggested that I’ve done this? No.

I’m obviously using a computer.
you could be at the library

you’re preaching, but not walking the walk,
So…are you implying that because I haven’t done this, I am not at liberty to grapple with the verses in Scripture pertaining to it? Does one have to be a member of a religious order under an explicit vow of poverty to find these scriptural injunctions troubling to one’s conscience?
it is your text, it comes across accusatory

how can you give up everything and obey other requirements of the bible
1 Timothy 5:8 - But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Ephesians 4:28 ESV /
Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need.
if you were not allowed possessions, you definitely would not have slaves
1 Timothy 6:1-2 ESV /
Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful on the ground that they are brothers; rather they must serve all the better since those who benefit by their good service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these things.
peter indicates the act of giving was voluntarily done and not as a command. note he says
Acts5 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property. 2 However, he kept back part of the proceeds with his wife’s knowledge, and brought a portion of it and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the proceeds from the field? 4Wasn’t it yours while you possessed it? And after it was sold, wasn’t it at your disposal? Why is it that you planned this thing in your heart?
planned in your heart?

i think that is part of the answer
1 Timothy 6:9-10 ESV /
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
 
If voluntary poverty is what your conscience tells you to do, then do just that. No one is stopping you.

Just follow your heart.
 
You can’t have it both ways. You quoted this scripture:

Luke 14:33: So therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions.

That same Gospel says that some of Jesus’ followers provided for Him and the Twelve out of their resources.
 
Luke 14:33: So therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions.
Is it possible to “give up”. And still use? This was. Big deal to the early Franciscans: to live “sine proprio”. Without owning. Only Francis thought it was possible. The order and pope did not. “Sine proprio” come to be viewed as a state of mind rather than a literal state of economy.

Reminds me of the dispute in " The Name of The Rose". “Did Jesus own his own clothes”.
 
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