Glad for Hell?

[francisca]

Here is my opinion about the passage “Catherine of Siena” posted by Shin.

'Sinners, such as those of whom I have just spoken, are placed in this life in order to augment virtues in My servants, as the devils are in Hell as My justiciars and augmenters of My Glory; that is, My instruments of justice towards the damned, and the augmenters of My Glory in My creatures, who are wayfarers and pilgrims on their journey to reach Me, their End.

The “Me, their End” shows that whoever speaking, he is not God. The devil cannot be “God’s instrument of justice”.

They augment in them the virtues in diverse ways, exercising them with many temptations and vexations, causing them to injure one another and take one another’s property, and not for the motive of making them receive injury or be deprived of their property, but only to deprive them of charity.

The sentence “not for the motive of making them receive injury…” deny the previous sentence “causing them to injure one another”. This shows the untruthful nature of the sentences.

But in thinking to deprive My servants, they fortify them, proving in them the virtues of patience, fortitude, and perseverance. Thus they render praise and glory to My Name, and My Truth is fulfilled in them, which Truth created them for the praise and glory of Me, Eternal Father, and that they might participate in My beauty.

God’s truth is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

But, rebelling against Me in their pride, they fell and lost their vision of Me, wherefore they rendered not to Me glory through the affection of love, and I, Eternal Truth, have placed them as instruments to exercise My servants in virtue in this life and as justiciars to those who go, for their sins, to the pains of Purgatory.

“them” refer to whom? Who excercise “My servants virtue”? It doesn’t make sense. Obscurity is another sign of devils lies.

So you see that My Truth is fulfilled in them, that is, that they render Me glory, not as citizens of life eternal, of which they are deprived by their sins, but as My justiciars, manifesting justice upon the damned, and upon those in Purgatory.

The bible say only the living praise The Lord.

Thus in all things created, in all rational creatures, and in the devils is seen the glory and praise of My Name.’

God to St. Catherine of Siena

This last one is blunt lie.

 

[francisca]

I really think that the critical thing here is that St. Thomas is discussing the way things are after death, and not during life.

This in no way constitutes a statement that rejoicing at anyone’s suffering is acceptable during life.

We should remember that there is no way for us to fully understand life after death until we get there.

Your last sentence also imply that there is no way Thomas Aquinas knew what he had been teaching.

 

[Shin]

Here is my opinion about the passage “Catherine of Siena” posted by Shin.

The “Me, their End” shows that whoever speaking, he is not God. The devil cannot be “God’s instrument of justice”.

See Job.

The sentence “not for the motive of making them receive injury…” deny the previous sentence “causing them to injure one another”. This shows the untruthful nature of the sentences.

The devils do not care about material things ultimately, they care about spiritual things.

God’s truth is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

And in all that God does, is, and creates in one way or another.

“them” refer to whom? Who excercise “My servants virtue”? It doesn’t make sense. Obscurity is another sign of devils lies.

It’s not obscure in the context of the sentence. These things must not be read with a motivations to find fault, rather than understand. Just like the parables – or the Pharisees… Eating and drinking they condemn, fasting, they condemn… but they could have seen the good in each with proper motivation.

The bible say only the living praise The Lord.

All Creation praises the Lord, and serves Him one way or another. This is because God is omnipotent, and necessarily concluded because of that.

This last one is blunt lie.

No, it’s a deep truth. Otherwise they would not be maintained in existence by God. Which He does do, you know, if their existence was without any good whatsoever, He would not allow it. So there must be some good to their existence, even despite themselves.

In other words, all the thorns and pains and trials… can be turned to good in this life. And that is what they are truly meant to do. Even when people injure us, God means for us to find good from it, rather than evil.

And that is truly the message of Our Lord.

 

[RosaryFan]

On occasion I have heard fellow Christian and Catholics mention Hell with a sort of gladness. In an almost appreciative tone of the idea that their ‘sacrifices’ of not attending wild parties and having abundant sex is going to spare them the fate of all those sinners. Now this on its own bothers me a little, I find it more or less impossible to properly love and cherish my neighbor while finding contentment in the idea that they will be punished for their lifestyle. However it seems even St. Thomas Aquinas held a view similar to this saying that those in heaven would rejoice at the suffering of the souls in Hell. Now when the ideas are coming out of the mouths of fundamentalist evangelicals I can at least understand where they are coming from, but when they come from Catholics, especially such a well known Saint, I have issue with that?

Is it really moral to find comfort in the idea of Hell?

Maybe you’ve misinterpreted the “rejoicing”. Maybe it was rejoicing over God’s exercise of justice.

 

[francisca]

See Job.

There is nowhere in the book of Job God say “You are my justiciar”, instead :

Job 2:3
Yahweh asked again, "Have you noticed my servant Job? No one on earth is as blameless and upright as he, a man who fears God and avoids evil. He still holds fast to his integrity even if ** you provoked me without cause**

The book of Job is trying to teach “spiritual realm” in our language. “Catherine of Siena revelation” is after Jesus came, yet inside her revelation you quoted, there is none mentioning Jesus.

In the book of Job, the afflicted Job say “For I know that my Redeemer lives…” (Job 9:25).

The devils do not care about material things ultimately, they care about spiritual things.

The sentence “not for the motive to make them receive injury” is a lie.
John 8:44 say that the devil whishes to murder physically.

John 8:44 Jesus said
The father you spring from is the devil, you will carry out the evil wishes of your father, who has been ** a murderer from the beginning of time**

But Catherine of Siena text say otherwise. This is insertion of falsehood, an attempt to relate the devil with goodness, which is obscurity. The true teaching is very clear : all good things of God alone. This is the separation of Light from darkness, Life from Death in Genesis 1 and John 1. There is no obscurity about the devils character, especially after Jesus died. Jesus died and rose again mark the new begining of new heaven and new earth. He separate Light from darkness just like in Genesis 1.

And in all that God does, is, and creates in one way or another.

No. After Jesus cross, there is no obscurity about God’s character. Read John 8:30-59

It’s not obscure in the context of the sentence. These things must not be read with a motivations to find fault, rather than understand. Just like the parables – or the Pharisees… Eating and drinking they condemn, fasting, they condemn… but they could have seen the good in each with proper motivation.

The devil spoke to Catherine of Siena producing non-holy text (heresy). Satan spoke to Jesus too, but Jesus rebuke him with the word of God to correct his attempt of heresy. Please read Luke 4:1-13, all satan’s claims in the passage were lies. For example

Luke 4:6 Satan claimed :
And he said to Jesus, “I can give you power over all the nations and their wealth will be yours, for power and wealth have beendeliverd to me and I give them to whom I wish”.

This claim is not true because all power and glory belong to God alone, so Jesus said “Scripture says: You shall worship the Lord your God and serve him alone” (Luke 4:8)

All Creation praises the Lord, and serves Him one way or another. This is because God is omnipotent, and necessarily concluded because of that.

The devil is not God’s creation.

No, it’s a deep truth. Otherwise they would not be maintained in existence by God. Which He does do, you know, if their existence was without any good whatsoever, He would not allow it. So there must be some good to their existence, even despite themselves.

You are teaching obscurity. God has separate light from darkness since the beginning of time. God did not created darkness (Genesis 1:3).

In other words, all the thorns and pains and trials… can be turned to good in this life. And that is what they are truly meant to do. Even when people injure us, God means for us to find good from it, rather than evil.

And that is truly the message of Our Lord.

Thors, pains, and trials are of the devil, Jesus deliver us from those.

God bless you Shin.

 

[slywakka250]

We need to remember that we will not only be judged by how little we sinned, but we also will be judged by how much we love, and that includes loving fellow sinners with all their imperfections. I often find that the latter aspect is missing on this forum.

Yes I completely agree. Love is an important thing. I am so bogged down in thinking about sin, that I have almost zero concept of what it means for God to “love” me, and that makes it much harder to want to love God.

 

[Shin]

God bless you Shin.

Thank you Francisca.

I want to ask you, are you open to perhaps trying to see a way to read those passages above in a good way? To see whether there is such an interpretation?

I see we’re in the apologetics forum, but normally I don’t do apologetics. I like to talk to people with a presumption that we’re both open towards seeking goodness and truth rather than a conflict of opposing positions or debate.

God’s omnipotence demands that -everything- that occurs, is under His dominion. Both good and evil, ultimately entirely -are-.

His Providence guides all that takes place on earth, both the acts of good men and evil men, the good angels and the evil angels. And all these actions fit together in his Divine Providence, His Divine Justice, a Divine economy.

Providence determines and guides all.

And that is one of the most important doctrines in Christianity. And most life changing. That trustful surrender to Divine Providence.

“I am the Lord, He tells us Himself by the mouth of the prophet Isaias, and there is none else. I form light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things. (Is. 45:6-7) * It is I who bring both death and life, I who inflict wounds and heal them,* He said to Moses. (Deut. 32:39) 'The Lord killeth and maketh alive, it is written in the Canticle of Anna, the mother of Samuel, He bringeth down to the tomb and He bringeth back again; the Lord maketh poor and maketh rich, he humbleth and he exalteth. (1 Kings 2:6-7) Shall there be evil (disaster, affliction) in a city which the Lord hath not done? (Amos 3:6) asks the prophet Amos: Good things and evil, life and death, poverty and riches are from God* Solomon proclaims. *(Ecclus. 11:14) And so on in numerous other passages of Scripture.”

In Hell, don’t you know that the demons are punishing sins because of God’s justice? Even though they do not desire to -do- God’s justice, they nevertheless unwillingly all fit into and serve His will.

A person should show more prudence and reserve before attributing words of God to the devil. You should hesitate and not leap forwards about these things, because to do so…

Prudence.

God created the devil too. He did not create Satan fallen. But he created the devil, knowing in advance what would occur, and what use God would then make of him.

All the pains we suffer in this life… Are part of the Divine plan… And -this- is what makes them bearable. Rather than some atheistic, hands off view of the world, where God does not interact with His children.

God is omnipotent, and God’s Providence works throughout all things.

 

[AHapka]

Luke 4:6 Satan claimed :
And he said to Jesus, “I can give you power over all the nations and their wealth will be yours, for power and wealth have beendeliverd to me and I give them to whom I wish”.

This claim is not true because all power and glory belong to God alone,

What’s really interesting is that Jesus did not directly deny that claim. I almost wonder if the devil has been given some power over the kingdoms of this world (by God)? That would explain how some people have come into power over the years.

 

[francisca]

What’s really interesting is that Jesus did not directly deny that claim. I almost wonder if the devil has been given some power over the kingdoms of this world (by God)? That would explain how some people have come into power over the years.

Hi AHapka,

God gave authority over all of God’s creation to man (Adam)

Genesis 1:26
God said, “Let Us make man in our image, to our likeness. Let them rule…”

But when man sin, man give up his power to the devil.

In this fallen world sometimes it is hard to see that all authority comes from God. Yet in that conversation with Jesus, we can see clearly that it is impossible for satan to give power to Jesus, isn’t it? I mean Jesus, he healed people, fed 5000 people: how can satan give greater power than those? If we still questioning these things then we do not undestand how good God is, and how bad satan is.

 

[AHapka]

Hi AHapka,

God gave authority over all of God’s creation to man (Adam)

Genesis 1:26
God said, “Let Us make man in our image, to our likeness. Let them rule…”

But then what of the following scripture?

John 16:11
“and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.” Why would Jesus call Satan the “prince of this world” if for the fact that he had not been given that power by God?

 

[francisca]

But then what of the following scripture?

John 16:11
“and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.” Why would Jesus call Satan the “prince of this world” if for the fact that he had not been given that power by God?

The above scripture because all men has fallen into the power of darkness (because of sin), not by God’s will though. In a way that power still comes from God, eventhough the placement to the devils own is not of God’s will.

By the way, the above is not the heresy the document (Catherine of Siena) tried to convey. The heresy said that the devil is God’s justiciar which is a lie. God’s justiciar is Jesus Christ.

The document also said that “in the devil is seen the Glory of God’s name” (last sentence). This is bluntly oppose what Jesus said in

John 17
4 I {Jesus} have glorified you on earth…
5 Now Father, give me {Jesus} in your pressence the same Glory I had with you before the world began.

The document also make several other claims that is so obvious heresy (the ones I underlined/ bolded) in my previous post.

 

[francisca]

Thank you Francisca.

I want to ask you, are you open to perhaps trying to see a way to read those passages above in a good way?*

How can I say something bad “good” ?

To see whether there is such an interpretation?

To interpret a work of heresy is heresy too *

I see we’re in the apologetics forum, but normally I don’t do apologetics. I like to talk to people with a presumption that we’re both open towards seeking goodness and truth rather than a conflict of opposing positions or debate.*

Ok.

God’s omnipotence demands that -everything- that occurs, is under His dominion. Both good and evil, ultimately entirely -are-.*

His Providence guides all that takes place on earth, both the acts of good men and evil men, the good angels and the evil angels. And all these actions fit together in his Divine Providence, His Divine Justice, a Divine economy.

Providence determines and guides all.

And that is one of the most important doctrines in Christianity. And most life changing. That trustful surrender to Divine Providence.

“I am the Lord, He tells us Himself by the mouth of the prophet Isaias, and there is none else. I form light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things. (Is. 45:6-7) * It is I who bring both death and life, I who inflict wounds and heal them,* He said to Moses. (Deut. 32:39) *'The Lord killeth and maketh alive, it is written in the Canticle of Anna, the mother of Samuel, He bringeth down to the tomb and He bringeth back again; the Lord maketh poor and maketh rich, he humbleth and he exalteth. (1 Kings *2:6-7) *Shall there be evil (disaster, affliction) in a city which the Lord hath not done? (Amos *3:6) asks the prophet Amos: Good things and evil, life and death, poverty and riches are from God Solomon proclaims. *(Ecclus. 11:14) *And so on in numerous other passages of Scripture.”

In Hell, don’t you know that the demons are punishing sins because of God’s justice? Even though they do not desire to -do- God’s justice, they nevertheless unwillingly all fit into and serve His will.

A person should show more prudence and reserve before attributing words of God to the devil. You should hesitate and not leap forwards about these things, because to do so…*

Prudence.*

God created the devil too. He did not create Satan fallen. But he created the devil, knowing in advance what would occur, and what use God would then make of him.*

All the pains we suffer in this life… Are part of the Divine plan… And -this- is what makes them bearable. Rather than some atheistic, hands off view of the world, where God does not interact with His children.

God is omnipotent, and God’s Providence works throughout all things.

Explanation about Isiah 45:6-7

In our human language:
“Light” is a name given of “bright condition”. Before the light was created, there was no brightness and there was no darkness. The moment God created light, then there was brightness. And because of the brightness, only then there also darkness (the separation of Light from darkness in Genesis 1:3).

So when Isiah said “I (God) form the light, and create the dark”, Isiah chose the words “form” and “create” (in English translation). I’m sure there is linguistic explanation about the english translation for using two words “form the light” and “create the dark” that explain Isiah expression that to form the light causes the creation of the dark in the ancient hebrew language.

But without having to go too far with linguistic, we can clearly know from Genesis that *God only said “Let there be light” and never “Let there be darkness”. God did not create anything bad, because everytime God saw that all he created was good (Genesis 1).

After the fall, however, things become more complicated. The devil made his claim to his position because of mans sin. Thus after Genesis 1 all the way to Jesus time, God goes by the law (punishments). Yet those punishments were from God’s authority, not the devil. There is nowhere in the bible the statement that “the devil is God’s Justiciar”. The devil cannot be just. He can try to create perversion, and then make his claim based on mans idolatry. God declared enmity with the devil (the serpent) right after the fall (Genesis).

The “clear cut” of Gods goodness is shown when Jesus said that “Jesus Father” and the pharisees “father” were two distict personalities :

John 8
37 …, yet you want to kill me…
38 …you do what you have learned from your father
39 … if you were Abraham’s children, you would do as Abraham did.*
40 But now you want to kill me…
44 The father you spring from is the devil and you will carry out the evil wishes of your father who has been a murderer since the beginning. He didn’t uphold the truth for, in him, there is no truth; and now, when he speaks for himself he lies. He is a liar and the father of lies.
46 Which of you can find anything false in me? If I speak the truth, why do you not *believe me?
47 He who is of God hears the words of God; you don’t hear because you are not of God."
49 You try to shame me when I give honor to my Father.
54 … He who gives glory to me is The Father, the very one you claim as your God

Now that we have such revelation, we are not allowed to make obscure what has been cleared by Jesus Christ.*

In our baptism, our first promise is to “reject satan and all his lies”

God bless you Shin.

 

[Shin]

Let me ask you a simple question then.

Tomorrow, in court, a judge sentences a man to be punished for a crime.

The prison guard comes and hauls him away, and puts him in a prison cell, where the man suffers for his crime.

If the prison guard does this for motivations of hatred of the criminal… is he serving justice or not?

If the prison guard does this for motivations of love of the judge… is he serving justice or not?

 

[francisca]

Let me ask you a simple question then.

Tomorrow, in court, a judge sentences a man to be punished for a crime.

The prison guard comes and hauls him away, and puts him in a prison cell, where the man suffers for his crime.

If the prison guard does this for motivations of hatred of the criminal… is he serving justice or not?

If the prison guard does this for motivations of love of the judge… is he serving justice or not?

The prison guards do serve justice. But the devil does not. So if the prison guard follow the devil, they-- for example do something bad to the inmates-- then they do not serve justice anymore. Thus whoever follow the devil doesn’t serve justice.

 

[Shin]

Hmm, not the answer I was expecting.

Are you maintaining that the devil never does anything that God also wills?

That for example, God cannot as judge condemn someone, and the devil carry out this just sentence? Despite the fact that the devil’s motivations are wrong?

 

[francisca]

Are you maintaining that the devil never does anything that God also wills?

Never

That for example, God cannot as judge condemn someone, and the devil carry out this just sentence? Despite the fact that the devil’s motivations are wrong?

God can condemn someone according to the law. The devil cannot carry out anything just. He (the devil) depend on God’s law to claim somebody’s soul. The devil will even try to pervert justice if he can.

When God condemn somebody, then he (the sinner) receive bad things from the devil for he (the sinner) has departed from God’s light which is also God’s presence, according to the law. But after Jesus, if that person declare that Jesus is the Son of God, then he will be redeemed from the law and sin, thus that person can abide in God’s light (God’s presence).

 

[Shin]

Now on a certain day when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them. And the Lord said to him:* Whence comest thou? And he answered and said: I have gone round about the earth, and walked through it.* And the Lord said to him: *Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil? *

And Satan answering, said: Doth Job fear God in vain? Hast not thou made a fence for him, and his house, and all his substance round about, blessed the works of his hands, and his possession hath increased on the earth? But stretch forth thy hand a little, and touch all that he hath, and see if he blesseth thee not to thy face. Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand: only put not forth thy hand upon his person. And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Job 1:6-12

Then Job rose up, and rent his garments, and having shaven his head fell down upon the ground and worshipped,

And said: Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away: as* it hath pleased the Lord so is it done:** blessed be the name of the Lord.
*
Job 1:20-21

And the Lord said to Satan:* Behold be is in thy hand, but yet save his life*. So **Satan **went forth from the presence Of the Lord, and struck Job with a very grievous ulcer, from the sole of the foot even to the top of his head:

Job 2:6-7

And he said to her: *Thou hast; spoken like one of the foolish women: if we have received good things at the hand of God, why should we not receive evil? In all these things Job did not sin with his lips. *

Job 2:10

So… how do you explain the above? In what way is Satan -not- doing God’s will?

Job knows who is ultimately responsible.

 

[francisca]

Now on a certain day when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them. And the Lord said to him:* Whence comest thou? And he answered and said: I have gone round about the earth, and walked through it.* And the Lord said to him: *Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil? *

And Satan answering, said: Doth Job fear God in vain? Hast not thou made a fence for him, and his house, and all his substance round about, blessed the works of his hands, and his possession hath increased on the earth? But stretch forth thy hand a little, and touch all that he hath, and see if he blesseth thee not to thy face. Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand: only put not forth thy hand upon his person. And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Job 1:6-12

Then Job rose up, and rent his garments, and having shaven his head fell down upon the ground and worshipped,

And said: Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away: as** it hath pleased the Lord so is it done:** blessed be the name of the Lord.

Job 1:20-21

And the Lord said to Satan:* Behold be is in thy hand, but yet save his life*. So **Satan **went forth from the presence Of the Lord, and struck Job with a very grievous ulcer, from the sole of the foot even to the top of his head:

Job 2:6-7

And he said to her: *Thou hast; spoken like one of the foolish women: if we have received good things at the hand of God, why should we not receive evil? In all these things Job did not sin with his lips. *

Job 2:10

So… how do you explain the above? In what way is Satan -not- doing God’s will?

Job knows who is ultimately responsible.

The book of Job will take the whole new thread. But let me make it simple: The book of Job try to teach us that our salvation is of a Redeemer (Jesus Christ) and NOT because of Job’s work.

The above verses you quote, Satan try to make a claim based on God’s law. Satan debate God on the ground of Job’s own righteousness.

But later, in the long poem of Job, after Job debated with all of his friends, God himself talk to him and prove that God is the only one who own all righteousness, and He gave it to Job based on Job’s confession of faith in God.

Job prove to his friends that he is afflicted eventhough he (Job) has many many good deeds
Pleasse read from Job 29:12 all the way to Job 31:32

God proves He is the owner of all righteousness :
Please read Job 38 and Job 39

Job repented and confess God’s righteousness
Job 42
1 This was the answer Job gave to Yahweh:
2. I know that you are all powerful; no plan of yours can be thwarted.
3 I spoke of things I did not understand, too wonderful to me to know
5 My ears have heard of you
6 Therefore I retract all I have said, and in dust and ashes I repent

God counted Job as righteous and restored him and his family and belongings:
Job 42:7-16

 

[Joseph_Kemp]

The person who posted this forum wrote: “Is it really moral to find comfort in the idea of Hell?”

No. It is not. People who believe that it is have something deeply wrong in their moral reasoning. They are ill in a way I may never understand.

You are quite right to wonder at the morality of such an odd belief. It is the only rational, moral thing to do.

You wrote: “Now this on its own bothers me a little, I find it more or less impossible to properly love and cherish my neighbor while finding contentment in the idea that they will be punished for their lifestyle.”

This should bother you. Believing that your neighbor is definitely going to Hell is a very unhealthy position.

There is absolutely nothing in all official Roman Catholic teaching requiring us to look on our neighbors as inherently damned for their lifestyle. Forgiveness is always possible. There is no doctrinal basis for being certain that your neighbor is going to Hell. God can extend His mercy to others in ways that are not understood at all. To look on one’s neighbor as inherently damned for their lifestyle is evil beyond belief.

Simply continue living as you are. Your ordinary life is only the example other people really need of the Catholic faith. People see how you go to Church and how you simply ARE, even when you think they don’t. This is nothing to stress over. Forget about it.

You wrote: “However it seems even St. Thomas Aquinas held a view similar to this saying that those in heaven would rejoice at the suffering of the souls in Hell. Now when the ideas are coming out of the mouths of fundamentalist evangelicals I can at least understand where they are coming from, but when they come from Catholics, especially such a well known Saint, I have issue with that.”

The writings of the saints are not part of the Deposit of Faith. No Roman Catholic is obligated to believe them. They are total extras. Anyone who says otherwise is flatly wrong. Even the philosophy of Saint Thomas Aquinas is a total extra. He is merely stating his opinion. Not a doctrine. And no Roman Catholic is obligated to believe such a thing in any way whatsoever.

To get really technical, the papal encyclical Fides et Ratio says: “the Church has no philosophy (such as that of Aquinas) of her own nor does she canonize any one particular philosophy in preference to others.” This includes the philosophy and the writings of Saint Thomas, in all dimensions. If it is written by a saint, it is not part of the Deposit of Faith. You are free to forget about it entirely. THAT is official Catholic teaching. If anyone disagrees with this, they are wrong.

As for bad ideas spoken by other “Catholics:” be very careful who you listen to.

Catholic philosopher G. K. Chesterton once wrote that a Catholic can reach a point in his/her spiritual life, when nothing a Protestant or a non-believer says can shake their faith. But a single bad word from another Catholic can be absolutely devastating.

Stop reading anything that is causing you difficulty. If what you are reading sounds too harsh to be true, then it probably is. There is plenty of bad reasoning floating around in the Catholic world. And there is nothing against rejecting something you know to be morally wrong.

 

[Anthony_V]

I think St. Thomas Aquinas may have touched a little on what Bishop Fulton Sheen touched on in latter years.
Hell is not a punishment, it is a mercy. It is God’s mercy.

How painful would that be for someone to stand in the presence of God’s radiance and glory while immersed in mortal sin for all eternity? In metaphysical terms, light consumes “darkness” (AKA lack of light). So then the radiance and grace of God overflows upon that person in an eternal and unproductive state of “purification”; As if God took Purgatory and placed it directly in his presence. Except you never finish. That would be so painful that God completely disallows it. He let’s you escape away from Him should you choose. If we stood face to face with God right now, we would cease to exist physically and soulfully because he is the ultimatum of light. Our spirit would have to endure not only his aura, but his BEING. Oh jeez!

How less painful would that be for someone to stand eternally farther away from the presence of God in mortal sin for eternity? Painful, still? Yes. They will never experience love or joy or happiness, but at least they might experience slight relief every once in a thousand years or something for realizing they could have it worse than Hell itself.