Global flood?

[Mike_O]

patg:

the gospel infancy narratives, etc.

I take it by this that you are referring to Luke 1 & 2?

Might you point to the Church document where the story of Jesus’ infancy was declared “mythical”?

This thread has exposed some of the big dangers of people interpreting this stuff on their own. It’s high time a real apologist (Mr. Keating, Mr. Akin, et. al) stopped in and cleared this up. Global floods, local floods, allegorical floods…in what way has this speculation answered any of the original questions?

 

[Joe_Gloor]

Rustyxcv:

He only needed two horses, from which all our modern species of horses, zebra, etc., have descended; two cows, from which all our modern species of cattle, buffalo, oxen, etc., have descended; two butter-cups (how many THOUSANDS of plant species are direct descendants of the butter-cup!) and so forth. --Rusty

This is absurd to say the least.
You seem to have a problem with your time-line.
Does the fact that modern species of zebra existed before the time of Noah bother you at all?
How can you possibly square this assertion with the simple fact that the evolution of one species into another takes millions of years as evidenced by the fossil record?

 

[patg]

buffalo:

One must remember the document was not written in a vacuum. And that newer documents have been wrtten. They all must be viewed together.

Can you give me a list of these stories that were pure ficton?

I could (well I could if I wasn’t expected to work for a living). A much better approach would be for those here who question such things to read a book or two on scripture interpretation written for catholic adult education. Paulist Press publishes one I have used and have taught from that is really excellent. It is “*And God Said What?: An Introduction to Biblical Literary Forms”. *This book addresses determining the meaning based on the guidelines of Dei Verbum. It’s available from Amazon or I could lend you a copy.

 

[Orogeny]

TPJCatholic:

God did create the world.

Yes.

There was a literal Garden of Eden.

Maybe.

There was a literal flood that wiped out everyone, save eight.

Nope.

There was a literal n Ark.

Not that saved all life on the planet.

There was a literal Soddom and Gommorah and it was destroyed by God.

OK

The Bible is true both literally and allegorically.

Yes.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

Mike O:

This thread has exposed some of the big dangers of people interpreting this stuff on their own. It’s high time a real apologist (Mr. Keating, Mr. Akin, et. al) stopped in and cleared this up. Global floods, local floods, allegorical floods…in what way has this speculation answered any of the original questions?

A real apologist has no more authority to interpret scripture than I do. Unless the Church declares otherwise, I won’t accept the flood story as literal.

Peace

Tim

 

[buffalo]

patg:

I could (well I could if I wasn’t expected to work for a living). A much better approach would be for those here who question such things to read a book or two on scripture interpretation written for catholic adult education. Paulist Press publishes one I have used and have taught from that is really excellent. It is “*And God Said What?: An Introduction to Biblical Literary Forms”. *This book addresses determining the meaning based on the guidelines of Dei Verbum. It’s available from Amazon or I could lend you a copy.

I think I will stick to Magisterial writings for now.

 

[Orogeny]

Rustyxcv:

The large dinosaurs are like our modern alligators and crocodillians, the older they are, the bigger they get. They just keep growing larger and larger the longer they live. Two small juveniles from each of these would do just fine. What did these eat? They were on the ark for over a year . . . my guess is that there would have been PLENTY . . . of rabbits (lol!) to eat after that time.

Hmm. Can you please point out to me any horse fossils from the same strata as those of dinosaurs? Thanks in advance!

Peace

Tim

 

[javelin]

Rustyxcv:

Further observations–
– While I know that the first 11 chapters of Genisis are literally true, I do not believe that they are to be interpreted literalistically. We don’t have to sift them with a finer comb than we sift other historical passages in the O.T.
– I refer specifically to the poster farther up the string who objected that there were too many species to fit two of each on the ark. Well, Noah didn’t use our modern taxonomy. He preserved two of each KIND of animal, not two of each of our modern species. And, since he was preserving them from a FLOOD of water, he certainly didn’t have to bring on the ark all the creatures that live in the water (or down in the mud) and could survive the flood on their own.
– He only needed two horses, from which all our modern species of horses, zebra, etc., have descended; two cows, from which all our modern species of cattle, buffalo, oxen, etc., have descended; two butter-cups (how many THOUSANDS of plant species are direct descendants of the butter-cup!) and so forth.
– As for the terrible carnivores, the Bible does not specify that he brought voracious full-sized adults on board. Two lion cubs and two tiger kittens would have done quite nicely and been eminently manageable. The large dinosaurs are like our modern alligators and crocodillians, the older they are, the bigger they get. They just keep growing larger and larger the longer they live. Two small juveniles from each of these would do just fine. What did these eat? They were on the ark for over a year . . . my guess is that there would have been PLENTY . . . of rabbits (lol!) to eat after that time.
– The brevity and the terseness in the Biblical account should not mislead us. Noah was a very intelligent and skilled man. It took him many years to build and provision the ark. Rest assured that it was very well-equipped to serve the purpose it was designed for.
– Nor should we be deceived by the cutesy and incorrect drawings we see in children’s books (and cartoons, like the delightful one posted here!). Noah’s ark was NOT a boat. It did not have a keel or a prow. It was not designed to be navigable. It was a long, broad flat “chest” – very big, it was three storeys high; intended simply to float freely and level when lifted by the flood waters.
– Blessings to all! --Rusty

The argument that got me was how could certain species that were indigenous to certain continents or locals have traversed the globe to where Noah was, hung out for a short while, then made it all the way back? I certainly don’t see a kangaroo swimming that far…

As for the hypothesis that a very limited number of “father” species were there, after which they evolved into our many modern species, Joe Gloor was absolutely correct that this is nonsene. Everything I’ve heard about biblically dating Noah places him in the area of several thousand years before Christ. There is simply no evidence that would suggest that macroevolution of the scale you’re asserting must have happened could possibly occur within several thousand years.

BTW, I remember reading last summer that a group was going up to excavate and search the mountain site where the Ark was supposedly photographed sticking out of the ice and snow. I haven’t heard anything since. Do any of you know anything about it?

Peace,
javelin

 

[Rustyxcv]

More thoughts–
– The flood of Noah’s day was not a simple gentle rising of waters after a heavy natural rainstorm; it was an earth shattering and earth changing cataclysmic catastrophe. It killed all the living creatures on the surface of the earth.
– The Bible doesn’t give us a lot of geological details about the mechanisms of the event itself. The only witnesses who survived were shut up in the ark at the time. The Bible does say that rain fell from the sky and that the “fountains of the deep” burst forth.
– The best and most reasonable explanation that I have seen is that both a water vapor canopy high in the sky condensed and collapsed AND that large subterranean reservoirs of water jetted up out of the crust of the earth (the “fountains of the deep”).
– Before the flood, the ocean basins contained much less water and were much shallower. It is possible that the continental shelf (there may have been only one continent at that point–Gen. 10:24 says that “in the days of Peleg [Noah’s great-great-grandson] the earth was divided”) or shelves were flatter and lower toward the center of the earth. So it is eminently reasonable that all the “mountains” of the earth were covered to a height of 20 feet above their tops over the whole earth, in the early stages of this massive inundation, before there were any new major continental shifts or upheavals.
– The GREAT weight of the water now on the whole surface of the earth caused the ocean basins to collapse to greater depths with the lighter continental masses rising up in compensation. If continental drift began in earnest at the time of Peleg (4-6 generations after Noah, Gen. 10:24), then the ultra-high mountains that we see today did not begin to appear till then.
– An earth covering water canopy, diffusing the rays of the sun, would explain the remarkable novelty and “uniqueness” of the rainbow which appeared after the flood as God’s sign of his new covenant with the descendants of Noah. There had been no rainbows before.
– The canopy’s ability to filter out damaging cosmic rays and the positive health effects of the increased barometric pressure under such a canopy would explain (at least in part) why Noah’s predecessors lived several centuries each, whereas after Noah lifespans begin to shorten so that now we live only several decades each.
–Blessings to all! --Rusty

 

[rossum]

-- It was common accepted FACT in scientific historical circles that the ancient city of Troy was mytholiogical and that the story of the Trojan Horse was pure confabulation. Then, lo and behold, the ruins of the ancient city of Troy were found on the coast of western Turkey right where they were supposed to be (was it by the German Schleiermann???).

His name was Schliemann. That is a very dangerous argument that you are using. As well as talking about Troy, Homer also talks about the Greek Gods - Zeus, Hera, Aphrodite, Apollo and so on. Are you saying that the existence of Troy proves that the Greek Gods also exist? Where events are historical we would expect to find archaeological evidence of those events, like the remains of Troy. The problem with a global flood is that there is no scientific or archaeological evidence for it. Since there is no physical evidence of a global flood I consider it to be one of the mythological parts of the Bible. Real history produces physical evidence, myths do not. Homer is a mixture of the two - Troy was real, Zeus was not. Similarly the Bible is a mixture including myths and history. The Hittites were history, so there is physical evidence for them. The global flood was myth, there is no physical evidence for it. When you can produce some physical evidence for a global flood then I will consider changing my mind.
Rustyxcv (Post #178):

And, since he was preserving them from a FLOOD of water, he certainly didn’t have to bring on the ark all the creatures that live in the water (or down in the mud) and could survive the flood on their own.

I suspect that you have never kept fish. Is you put salt-water fish into fresh water they die. Similarly if you put fresh-water fish into salt water. Were the flood waters salt or fresh? Even if they were brackish then a lot of species would die out.

For a lot more problems with the Biblical flood story, see here.

rossum

 

[Orogeny]

Rustyxcv:

More thoughts–
– The flood of Noah’s day was not a simple gentle rising of waters after a heavy natural rainstorm; it was an earth shattering and earth changing cataclysmic catastrophe. It killed all the living creatures on the surface of the earth.
– The Bible doesn’t give us a lot of geological details about the mechanisms of the event itself. The only witnesses who survived were shut up in the ark at the time. The Bible does say that rain fell from the sky and that the “fountains of the deep” burst forth.
– The best and most reasonable explanation that I have seen is that both a water vapor canopy high in the sky condensed and collapsed AND that large subterranean reservoirs of water jetted up out of the crust of the earth (the “fountains of the deep”).
– Before the flood, the ocean basins contained much less water and were much shallower. It is possible that the continental shelf (there may have been only one continent at that point–Gen. 10:24 says that “in the days of Peleg [Noah’s great-great-grandson] the earth was divided”) or shelves were flatter and lower toward the center of the earth. So it is eminently reasonable that all the “mountains” of the earth were covered to a height of 20 feet above their tops over the whole earth, in the early stages of this massive inundation, before there were any new major continental shifts or upheavals.
– The GREAT weight of the water now on the whole surface of the earth caused the ocean basins to collapse to greater depths with the lighter continental masses rising up in compensation. If continental drift began in earnest at the time of Peleg (4-6 generations after Noah, Gen. 10:24), then the ultra-high mountains that we see today did not begin to appear till then.
– An earth covering water canopy, diffusing the rays of the sun, would explain the remarkable novelty and “uniqueness” of the rainbow which appeared after the flood as God’s sign of his new covenant with the descendants of Noah. There had been no rainbows before.
– The canopy’s ability to filter out damaging cosmic rays and the positive health effects of the increased barometric pressure under such a canopy would explain (at least in part) why Noah’s predecessors lived several centuries each, whereas after Noah lifespans begin to shorten so that now we live only several decades each.
–Blessings to all! --Rusty

You know, why not just believe it because that is what scripture says? Call it a miracle, both that it happened and that there is not evidence for it. You don’t need to come up with these, um, ideas to support your faith, do you?

Peace

Tim

 

[Joe_Gloor]

Rustyxcv:

More thoughts–
– The flood of Noah’s day was not a simple gentle rising of waters after a heavy natural rainstorm; it was an earth shattering and earth changing cataclysmic catastrophe. It killed all the living creatures on the surface of the earth.
– The Bible doesn’t give us a lot of geological details about the mechanisms of the event itself. The only witnesses who survived were shut up in the ark at the time. The Bible does say that rain fell from the sky and that the “fountains of the deep” burst forth.
– The best and most reasonable explanation that I have seen is that both a water vapor canopy high in the sky condensed and collapsed AND that large subterranean reservoirs of water jetted up out of the crust of the earth (the “fountains of the deep”).
– Before the flood, the ocean basins contained much less water and were much shallower. It is possible that the continental shelf (there may have been only one continent at that point–Gen. 10:24 says that “in the days of Peleg [Noah’s great-great-grandson] the earth was divided”) or shelves were flatter and lower toward the center of the earth. So it is eminently reasonable that all the “mountains” of the earth were covered to a height of 20 feet above their tops over the whole earth, in the early stages of this massive inundation, before there were any new major continental shifts or upheavals.
– The GREAT weight of the water now on the whole surface of the earth caused the ocean basins to collapse to greater depths with the lighter continental masses rising up in compensation. If continental drift began in earnest at the time of Peleg (4-6 generations after Noah, Gen. 10:24), then the ultra-high mountains that we see today did not begin to appear till then.
– An earth covering water canopy, diffusing the rays of the sun, would explain the remarkable novelty and “uniqueness” of the rainbow which appeared after the flood as God’s sign of his new covenant with the descendants of Noah. There had been no rainbows before.
– The canopy’s ability to filter out damaging cosmic rays and the positive health effects of the increased barometric pressure under such a canopy would explain (at least in part) why Noah’s predecessors lived several centuries each, whereas after Noah lifespans begin to shorten so that now we live only several decades each.
–Blessings to all! --Rusty

Yes indeed. Very imaginative. But Tim (Orogeny) is correct. You shouldn’t try to justify this with any kind of scientific explanation since there is no scientific basis for what you are saying. It is simply laughable to try.

 

[Rustyxcv]

Just a few more points–
– One poster, way up the string, said that he didn’t want to say that he “believed in” evolution, because evolution was based on scientific evidence and was a matter of fact, or some such thing (please forgive me if I have the particulars wrong). Au contraire, evolution requires a Herculean belief indeed. It’s first premise is that random mutations can produce beneficial superior improvements, that is, that CHAOS in and of itself produces ORDER.
– This requires a much bigger LEAP of faith than anything believed by a devout Catholic (or any other Creationist). The evolutionist also believes (contrary to ALL scientific evidence) in the inevitability of progress in purely naturalistic processes. The laws of thermodynamics MANDATE that absent a higher organizing power (an (name removed by moderator)ut of intelligence, a superior directing force) ALL systems decline, suffer an increase in disorder and malfunctioning, and lose available useful energy.
– The evolutionist tries to compensate for these impossibilties by positing HUGE VAST quantities of time in which evolution can work ever so incrementally toward its inevitable goals. Give a room full of Las Vegas tourists each a pair of dice and let them roll them for ALL ETERNITY and they are still not going to come up with one sonnet (let alone the complete works) of Shakespeare! To paraphrase the mathematical wit – Evolution is NOT EVEN impossible.
– What has this to do with Noah’s flood? We have to be very careful of the fact that, because Evolutionism and Inevitable-Progress-Thinking have been the true religion and philosophical ground of our modern culture, we have become used to certain habits of thought and certain given expectations that have no real basis in fact.
– Adam was created by God in His own image a VERY GOOD human being. Likewise Eve. God put Adam in charge of all the creatures on earth. God brought all the creatures on earth before Adam and he named them ALL. Adam & Eve walked and talked WITH GOD, himself, every day “in the cool of the evening.” God told Adam how he had created the heavens and the earth. Adam told his children, and they told theirs (which how we know what we know today about the Creation). These were NOT Neanderthal cretins scratching the earth with sticks; they were HIGHLY intelligent and capable people, perhaps more intelligent than any who are alive today!
– Granted, at the time of the flood, except for Noah and his kin, they had all become perfectly EVIL as well! My guess is that while their technology might have been very different from ours, it may well have been every bit as advanced. While the Bible only speaks of God’s action in the sending of the Great Flood, it would not surprise me in the least if it turned out that the great vapor canopy was precipitated by some massive evil chemical project misguidedly developed by Noah’s contemporaries, and that the “fountains of the deep” were set loose by some ill-advised mining project.
– After Noah, the builders of the Babel Tower were tehnological whizzes. We see repeats and echoes of their work scattered across Asia and throughout the Americas whence they had been scattered. Our own towers and “pyramids” may be bigger, taller, but are they more beautiful, more awe-inspiring?
– Blessings to all! --Rusty

 

[Joe_Gloor]

Rustyxcv:

Just a few more points–
– One poster, way up the string, said that he didn’t want to say that he “believed in” evolution, because evolution was based on scientific evidence and was a matter of fact, or some such thing (please forgive me if I have the particulars wrong). Au contraire, evolution requires a Herculean belief indeed. It’s first premise is that random mutations can produce beneficial superior improvements, that is, that CHAOS in and of itself produces ORDER.
– This requires a much bigger LEAP of faith than anything believed by a devout Catholic (or any other Creationist). The evolutionist also believes (contrary to ALL scientific evidence) in the inevitability of progress in purely naturalistic processes. The laws of thermodynamics MANDATE that absent a higher organizing power (an (name removed by moderator)ut of intelligence, a superior directing force) ALL systems decline, suffer an increase in disorder and malfunctioning, and lose available useful energy.
– The evolutionist tries to compensate for these impossibilties by positing HUGE VAST quantities of time in which evolution can work ever so incrementally toward its inevitable goals. Give a room full of Las Vegas tourists each a pair of dice and let them roll them for ALL ETERNITY and they are still not going to come up with one sonnet (let alone the complete works) of Shakespeare! To paraphrase the mathematical wit – Evolution is NOT EVEN impossible.
– What has this to do with Noah’s flood? We have to be very careful of the fact that, because Evolutionism and Inevitable-Progress-Thinking have been the true religion and philosophical ground of our modern culture, we have become used to certain habits of thought and certain given expectations that have no real basis in fact.
– Adam was created by God in His own image a VERY GOOD human being. Likewise Eve. God put Adam in charge of all the creatures on earth. God brought all the creatures on earth before Adam and he named them ALL. Adam & Eve walked and talked WITH GOD, himself, every day “in the cool of the evening.” God told Adam how he had created the heavens and the earth. Adam told his children, and they told theirs (which how we know what we know today about the Creation). These were NOT Neanderthal cretins scratching the earth with sticks; they were HIGHLY intelligent and capable people, perhaps more intelligent than any who are alive today!
– Granted, at the time of the flood, except for Noah and his kin, they had all become perfectly EVIL as well! My guess is that while their technology might have been very different from ours, it may well have been every bit as advanced. While the Bible only speaks of God’s action in the sending of the Great Flood, it would not surprise me in the least if it turned out that the great vapor canopy was precipitated by some massive evil chemical project misguidedly developed by Noah’s contemporaries, and that the “fountains of the deep” were set loose by some ill-advised mining project.
– After Noah, the builders of the Babel Tower were tehnological whizzes. We see repeats and echoes of their work scattered across Asia and throughout the Americas whence they had been scattered. Our own towers and “pyramids” may be bigger, taller, but are they more beautiful, more awe-inspiring?
– Blessings to all! --Rusty

Sorry, Rusty. I just can’t take you seriously. You’re just kidding right?

 

[PhilVaz]

I don’t want to attack the faith of Rusty, he certainly has more faith than me!

HOWEVER, if the earth is young (I assume he accepts that also since that normally goes hand-in-hand with a Global Flood and “Flood Geology”), then the point I made about extinct species still stands as well. It is a fact that scientists have catalogued 1.5 million to 2 million species today, with estimates conservatively of 10 million species alive but not yet discovered.

So the first problem is trying to pair down and fit 10 million+ species to “several thousand kinds” on an Ark 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, etc. How do you make such distinctions? As I read the text literally, Genesis seems to equate the “kinds” of animals with “every living creature” on earth (especially Genesis 6:19-20).

The next problem is that 99% of all species have gone extinct in the history of life. Presumably these also were killed by the Global Flood a few thousand years ago, and not (as science says) by several mass and minor exinctions over long periods of time (several billion years) – 99% times 10 million equals ONE BILLION SPECIES that have to be accounted for also.

So you have the further problem of pairing down not just 10 million+ species, but ONE BILLION SPECIES into however many “kinds” that would be on an Ark 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, etc. If the Flood killed all terrestrial life, and the earth is young (several thousand years young), that’s what you’re stuck with defending. To be fair, maybe the ONE BILLION figure is a little high since that includes fish and insects, so I guess you can trim off a little.

There are many other problems not addressed yet: how did the animals travel to the Ark from where they lived, and how did the animals travel from the Ark back to their present locations? There is no fossil evidence of such travels i.e. present day Kangaroos and marsupials, and their ancient fossils, are found in Australia and only Australia, the same with other “indigenous species.” That is because Australia has been separated as a continent for hundreds of millions of years (i.e. see the biogeography argument for evolution explained here).

Also there is the incredible problem (do I hear miracle again?) of the super-fast and super-efficient evolution that young-earthers and Global Flood creationists must accept – from thousands of “kinds” to 10 million+ known species (not to mention hundreds of millions of extinctions) in just a few thousand years since the Global Flood destroyed everything.

The vast numbers of existing species, and the incredible number of extinctions, and the incredible diversity of animals and their biogeographical locations, etc are much easier to explain with the standard age of the earth (4.5 billion years), evolution, and many extinction events, not so with a young earth and one giant catastrophe.

Phil P

 

[PhilVaz]

Rusty, you were doing just fine defending typical creationist misunderstandings until this point…

Rusty << it would not surprise me in the least if it turned out that the great vapor canopy was precipitated by some massive evil chemical project misguidedly developed by Noah’s contemporaries, and that the “fountains of the deep” were set loose by some ill-advised mining project. >>

Hee hee. You should read Glenn Morton’s expose on the real origin and history of the great Water Vapor Canopy idea. Its been criticized by mainstream creationists for over 20 years. Even AnswersInGenesis mentions this as “arguments we think creationists should NOT use.” I mentioned this earlier in the thread.

We always need at least one creationist defending typical creationist arguments to keep these threads alive. That’s ok. As long as you don’t become belligerant like rheins2000 or “abcdefg” in previous threads. You just need to read a little bit from the "other side", or see the International Theological Commission statement endorsed by the present Pope.

Phil P

 

[Rustyxcv]

One last thought–
– I promise. Then I’ll shut up.
– Since I have come late to this string, I have had the joy and privilege (and burden, at times) of reading the whole thing over at one sitting from the beginning. Doing that you can see certain patterns that might not be immediately obvious, close up, in the one-on-one exchanges.
– In addition to the problems of the coloration of our thought caused by endemic cultural Evolutionism and Inevitability-of-Progress thinking; I notice another theme running on and off again throughout the length of this string. For lack of a better name, I would call it Renaissance-ism or Enlightenment-ism. It is the notion that true thought, true wisdom, true insight into the real nature of the world and of history is only possible with (or after) the rediscovery of the ancient Roman and Greek authors, and only possible when we affect to use scientific methods and thought processes which we presume to have their lineage from the ancient Romans and Greeks.
– An unfortunate outcome of this condition is that we have to waste time on the blog refuting silly propagandistic jibes of this school (and political party, I might add) such as the canard that intelligent people of the Middle Ages thought that the world was flat. Let’s see if we can come up with some more . . . hmm . . . the chief scientific and philosophical preoccupation of the Medieval scholars was to determine how many angels could stand on the head of a pin.
– Does anyone really believe that the builders of Chartres Cathedral, the developers of the hospital, and the inventors of the pipe organ, the clock, and the modern book, were principally concerned with counting angels on pin-heads?
– It seems to me that the chief impediment to intelligent discourse that this tendency (Renaissance-ism, Enlightenment-ism, Post-French-Revolution-ism, Academic-Marxism) presents is the universal discounting of received wisdom, received knowledge, and tradition. Everything must be new! Everything must be the latest! I have to prove everything for myself, today, NOW! Only the latest scholars employing the most vogue-ish methods and theories are to be trusted. If Augustine thought that Noah built an ark to save eight souls and two (or seven) of each of God’s creatures, well, what does he know!
– I know the histories in the first chapters of Genesis to be true because ALL the rest of the book in which they are contained is true. ALL of the whole book in all its many particular historical truths gives witness and testifies to That One Truth who is Christ Our Lord. He is modest (His Glory does not at present fill the skies, except for those who are ready to see it) and He is gentle, but He does not associate Himself with fool’s projects. So, because it is HIS book, I believe what it says to be true . . . in the ordinary sense of true . . . in the ordinary sense of what the book says.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Peace and blessings to all! --Rusty

 

[David_Zampino]

buffalo:

As you know teaching authority stops with the Bishops. Biblical scholars can claim anything they want. Until the Bishops make it doctirne it’s only speculative.

But what do you do with Biblical Scholars who ARE Bishops?

There are some, you know!

Blessings,

 

[David_Zampino]

TPJCatholic:

Phil,

Your case makes sense from our current world perspective. However, God said He covered the entire face of the earth…that is essence of my case. Yeah, I know, not very scientifically sound.

I do not think there were millions of species going onto the Ark. I do not think the animals had to travel from large distances and I do not think the world was configured the same way then, as it is now. I think the world we live in today looks as it does because of what God did during the flood and I think that the vast majority of species in the world came after the flood, through God’s providential actions.

I respect that this is what you believe . . . but you are confusing what God did or what God said with YOUR INTERPRETATION of what you THINK God said and did.

Can you provide anything but “This is what I THINK God says?”

Blessings,

 

[patg]

buffalo:

I think I will stick to Magisterial writings for now.

What magisterial writings do you think there are there that address actual biblical interpretation based on Dei Verbum? I would like to read definitive magisterial writings on the infancy narratives, the appearance stories, the flood, the talking serpent in the garden, the tower of babel, etc… And by definitive I don’t mean sweeping generalizations that only say something about the bible being true and inspired without really addressing the meaning and just what that truth is.

How do you know that the book I mentioned isn’t Magisterial? It is a scriptural study based directly on pontifical biblical commision understandings and on the concepts of papal documents, such as Dei Verbum. How much more Magisterial do you want? Somebody has to write the books…and I haven’t seen the magiterium’s name on a cathoilic adult education textbook yet.