Global Warming and increasing desert

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sundiver
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sundiver

Guest
I have been studying global climate change to better understand what ideas are being submitted as evidence. I discovered a theory from a scientist, Allen Savory, that I had never seen before. In this TED talk Savory describes his research. Here is a brief description, however, it would be better if you watched the TED Talk.

“Desertification is a fancy word for land that is turning to desert,” begins Allan Savory in this quietly powerful talk. And terrifyingly, it’s happening to about two-thirds of the world’s grasslands, accelerating climate change and causing traditional grazing societies to descend into social chaos. Savory has devoted his life to stopping it. He now believes – and his work so far shows – that a surprising factor can protect grasslands and even reclaim degraded land that was once desert.

Savory has done experiments using cattle herds to restore desert to grasslands. He calls this method Holistic Management. This is the website: https://www.savory.global/

Two thirds (2/3) of the world’s landmass is desert and it is increasing. Savory says this may be causing most of the global climate change.

Thousands of gallons of rain water fall on damaged bare soil and the evaporation occurs within days. Carbon is lost from the soil. The carbon is expelled into the atmosphere. Because of the amount of carbon lost from the soil, Savory says, it would not matter if we discontinued the use of carbon producing fossil fuels.
There have been several posts on CAF about global warming and or climate change. This research of Savory might be a big piece of the model that most reports ignore.
The Global Climate Change advocates often say that we need to become vegetarians and eliminate the cattle herds. This theory says we may need to increase the herds. What about the methane produced by the animals?
I don’t know the full implications of this theory, however, it is an intriguing revelation.
What do you think?
Have you heard about this theory?
 
I’ve seen other posters here mention this topic. Obviously reclaiming land would be a good thing by increasing CO2 sequestration in the soil and facilitate cooling.

We aren’t going to stop eating meat and the land would likely need to be productive in order to justify restoration.
 
Sounds like an interesting idea. I wonder if he could replicate the results he got in Africa on the American Southwest.
 
Makes sense…
Thank you for the video.It was interesting.
And so is his website.
 
Last edited:
Sorry about that. You are right. Correction. I meant to say the world’s landmass is two thirds vegetation and one third desert. Excluding the ice caps.
 
Last edited:
Uh… another one bites the dust ☹️
I sent it to an agronomist engineer out of curiosity . Not for us, but because desertification and improving that may be a good arena for soon to be agronomists.
And I am always attentive for any job niche for the youth around.
But as you provide, he seems to have presented fake evidence as well so…
So it isn t so much about rotation as is overcrowding it seems…
Well…it is always good to learn.
Thank you, Theo!
We will keep participating!
 
Last edited:
graciew said:
So it isn t so much about rotation as is overcrowding it seems…
Well…it is always good to learn.
Thank you, Theo!
We will keep participating!
Click to expand...
He’s not completely wrong though (in principle), proper management of the cattle can coexist with avoiding desertification. He’s just overstating his technique as the only answer I suspect.

Maybe his strategy works well in the 3rd world, where they do need the land to be productive and can’t just let it sit and recover for 20 yrs.
 
The desert dry areas are increasing. Sounds like we live in desperate times.

All of this reminds me of the Dust Bowl during the 1930’s.
Some of these arid zones may be the result of solar cycles. How long have they existed?

The amount of rainfall in the area would determine results of the science data.

Israel has been farming with drip irrigation methods. It works for farming but maybe, for wild grasslands it would be costly. I was thinking robotic drone drip method. It could happen.
 
Last edited:
Well , yes. Cattle is permanently rotating and it is carefully planned.
Overcrowding, no…But as you say, this is a different proposal probably for very extended periods of time to recover.
But I am not the expert at home. My husband and his family are.
And agronomists intervene as well.
They have owned this place for a few generations. Crops and cattle and good land, thanks God.No big problems.
Our issue are the floods. Their frequency and increased intensity, But land recovers, not without much effort…we have had to help keeping our neighbors’ cattle being their fields completely under water.Some provinces aren’t that lucky though as well.It is an issue.
But this is about desertification. Another topic.
 
Last edited:
There is some research into algae farms for the purpose of carbon capture, food source, and energy. Seems like this would be a more manageable method if the goal is carbon capture.
Spirulina and chlorella farms could feed the hungry. I don’t know how it would work in the desert?

I am interested in hydroponic farming after visiting some here in Florida.
 
Last edited:
Would you like to expand on that type of farming? Is it something you would be interested in working with?
If you want to share.
 
Sundiver said:
Israel has been farming with drip irrigation methods. It works for farming but maybe, for wild grasslands it would be costly. I was thinking robotic drone drip method. It could happen.
Click to expand...
Yea, drip irrigation only works for high value produce, not for grasslands. It comes down to reduced levels of grazing which is in conflict with economic desires of people running cattle on more limited areas.

Found this paper on reversing desertification in China

 
You still see them ploughing by hand…elderly ploughing with the old plough transformed with a little ”tractor” like engine at the front.But they walk behind the plough. Those were very small dry parcels. And some simply by hand.
China…China…land of contrasts…
 
Last edited:
Someone has. Years ago I traveled to San Antonio, Texas. Anyone familiar with that area knows it’s very desert-like, but not complete desert. Mile upon mile of mesquite/prickly pear “forest” with nothing on the ground itself. I decided to drive to Corpus Christi to take a swim, and on the way I saw on one side of the highway a lush pasture of grass that appeared to be about a foot and a half high and covered maybe a couple of miles on one side only. Obviously, someone had reclaimed a good-sized segment of land. Probably had to root-plow it and blast it with herbicide suited to cactus and woody plants, and re-seed the whole thing. Now, that’s not the Alan Savory approach, but it was AN approach to undoing desertification.

I had to believe that’s what that whole area looked like before farming and over-grazing destroyed the land. I remembered the “Comanche moon”; the time during which Comanche would go through that country into Mexico to raid. Their horses had to eat something on the way, and sure couldn’t eat the prickly pear and mesquite.

I don’t know what became of that land. I haven’t been back.

I have adopted some of Savory’s practices which, by the way, are basically the same as what the U of Mo Extension Division recommends for pasture. They do work. My area is not dryland in the usual sense. But most all the rain is in the spring and fall with little rain in between and during the winter. Still, “mob grazing” really is an effective tool in restoring soil.
 
Theo520 said:
let it sit and recover for 20 yrs
Click to expand...
It won’t, though.

Hoofed animals are essential to grassland health. If the land sits and rests for 20 years, it will end up worse than at the beginning.
 
There are critics. Also critics of the critics. With all due respect, the article you cited is by a “true believer” in the usual MMGW theories, as he took the opportunity not only to critique Savory, but to go on about cattle belching methane, favorably comparing hogs, of all things, which take a lot more fossil fuel to maintain.

Again, the Universities of Missouri (and Oklahoma. I have read some of their publications) do promote Savory’s methods. One thing that has to be understood about Savory is that his dialogue does “trail off” into “good management”. That’s inevitable because something that works one year might not work next year. Hilly pasture doesn’t act like prairie pasture. You have to know a lot and pay close attention to conditions.

So, for example. I have a field right next to a neighbor’s field. My grass is about 18 inches tall, and his is practically down to the ground. I have more cattle on mine, but that’s not the reason. Early in the spring, I kept my cattle on hay two and a half weeks longer than he did. Why? Because grass needs about four inches of “blade” for adequate photosynthesis (and root growth). I was not going to put cattle on the pasture until it had more than four inches of blade, You have to pay attention to things like that. Unless this really is an El Nino year (and NOAA thinks it will be a mild one) my neighbor’s pasture will be nothing soon and he’ll have to rotate them, But he’ll get very little growth because of no blade. When mine reaches four inches, I’ll move them off to another pasture, and can rotate back when the grass has grown sufficiently to pasture again.
 
Last edited:
This is the aquaponics and hydroponics research facility at University of Central Florida.


We have tried some of the local hydroponic organic vegetables. They are fresh and great to eat. There is something different about them.
Some of the hydroponic vegetables are sold in the grocery stores from the local farms near Orlando and Tampa.

I have been studying the technology and I think I could grow hydroponic organics for less. I have ideas for some inventions that would make it easier and less expensive. I am interested in combining hydroponic and organic. Developing the ideas takes time. So far my ideas are in the form of drawings and schematics.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top