Global Warming

  • Thread starter Thread starter Psychotheosophy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The last time we saw “authorities” question and deny something that the scientific evidence was overwhelmingly in support of was–

TOBACCO.

Tobacco companies denied and stalled on the overwhelmingly positive support of cigarettes causing cancer. This looks just ike that. There are folks out there who have to deny because they are afraid of lawsuits and want to continue to rake in the bucks before it is too late. Irresponsible, and morally questionable if you ask me.
 
Valke2 said:
prominent British economist and author of a major report on the cost global warming said that if climate change isn’t dealt with decisively, it could cause “extended world war.” Lord Nicholas Stern said as weather patterns change, it could create mass migrations which would, in turn, set off mass conflict.
news.aol.com/article/could-climate-change-lead-to-wars/353950?flv=1&icid=rbox_news.M
Click to expand...
There is an excellent book on this Called Water Wars…(. it is here on google books. ) by Vandana Shiva.

Anyone who questions whether we should respond to Climate Change as a social justice issue has to read the book. Especially chapter 2: it deals directly with climate change (or “global warming”).
 
LeonBloy said:
There is an excellent book on this Called Water Wars…(. it is here on google books. ) by Vandana Shiva.

Anyone who questions whether we should respond to Climate Change as a social justice issue has to read the book.
Click to expand...
Why not just tell us what evidence is there that is so compelling?
I do not like to pay money to support something I do not believe in.
LeonBloy said:
Especially chapter 2: it deals directly with climate change (or “global warming”).
Click to expand...
I think this has been covered ad naseum in this thread.
Are you talking about Global Warming, or are you talking about climate change.
It does not matter what others may tell you, they are two different things.
 
LeonBloy said:
The last time we saw “authorities” question and deny something that the scientific evidence was overwhelmingly in support of was–
Click to expand...
Another ‘scientific truth is dictated by popular opinion’ argument.

This is getting old.
Why not argue the case on its own merits rather then those of popular opinion?
Show us this ‘overwhelming’ evidence.
Answer the pointed questions posed to the manmade global warming side of the argument:
So where is it rising?
By how much?
Why there and not everywhere?
Isn’t the temperature cooling anywhere as well?
Why don’t we talk about the cooling as well?

And perhaps most important…How can this trend (real or imagined) be differentiated from normal trends of tempertaure rise and fall throughout history?
Click to expand...
 
Again, there is a difference between the weather and climate.

So you are looking for a direct impact on weather. But climate is not the same thing as weather.

nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/climate/climate_weather.html

arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/02/climate-data-ugliness-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder.ars

From the above link:
"So, it might come as a surprise to learn that, now that the year’s numbers have been crunched, NASA’s Goddard Institute and the UK’s Climactic Research Unit rank 2008 as the 9th and 10th warmest year (respectively) in the 150 years or so humanity has been keeping careful track of these things.

The facts are that 2008 was cooler than the last few years, but warmer than most in recent history, which lends itself to spin based on the predilections of the person talking about it. But some of that spin specifically plays upon the widespread innumeracy of the public, which isn’t well prepared to separate trends from short-term variability, or recognize when certain figures are selectively chosen. We’ll try to separate out some of these in a way that will hopefully help readers make a bit of sense out of the conflicting noise. "

**If you have a glass of water with ice in it that is sitting in a warm room, as the ice melts the overall temperature of the water in the glass decreases, but once the ice is melted completely, the water will heat up rapidly. **

More, look at Mt. Kilimanjaro

and if you don’t want to read credible source that conflict with the belief you hold about something that is well within the realm of reason and not faith, then I can’t help you.

Here is Vandana Shiva for free: youtube.com/watch?v=b5mnmq2PkDs
she describes how climate change will effect (of course) the poorest people on the planet.
 
vz71 said:
Another ‘scientific truth is dictated by popular opinion’ argument.

This is getting old.
Why not argue the case on its own merits rather then those of popular opinion?
Show us this ‘overwhelming’ evidence.
Answer the pointed questions posed to the manmade global warming side of the argument:
Click to expand...
No, the example of how the tobacco industry distorted the reaity that smoking tobacco causes cancer is NOT a scientific truth dictated by popular opinion argument, unless you are asserting that it is merely popular opinion that smoking causes cancer?

It is an example of how another big industry twisted and stalled and distorted reality so that people would continue to behave as they always have, smoking away.
It isn’t the scientists who dispute whether climate change as a direct result of human activity is a reality–it is the lawyers.
 
LeonBloy said:
Again, there is a difference between the weather and climate.

So you are looking for a direct impact on weather. But climate is not the same thing as weather.
Click to expand...
Apparently there is a misunderstanding somewhere along the way.
The only references I made to weather had to do with the fact that we do not understand the mechanisms behind it well enough to make a reliable forecast.
I do not recall equating weather with climate.

In fact, I have pointed this out in more then one post in this thread. Was I not clear enough in the previous posts?
 
LeonBloy said:
and if you don’t want to read credible source that conflict with the belief you hold about something that is well within the realm of reason and not faith, then I can’t help you.
Click to expand...
Sure you can.
Buy the book for me.

I have no qualms with reading evidence one way or the other.
I have serious issue with paying for it.

This was also pointed out in a previous post that apparently was missed.
Here it is again,
I do not like to pay money to support something I do not believe in.
Click to expand...
 
vz71 said:
Sure you can.
Buy the book for me.

I have no qualms with reading evidence one way or the other.
I have serious issue with paying for it.

This was also pointed out in a previous post that apparently was missed.
Here it is again,
Click to expand...
You won’t be paying for it.

Hundreds of thousands of poor people, largely in extremely poor counties, will pay for it.

You are asking for evidence of where the earth is warming–and I stated that it isn’t that simple, i.e. climate doesn’t equal weather.
 
LeonBloy said:
No, the example of how the tobacco industry distorted the reaity that smoking tobacco causes cancer is NOT a scientific truth dictated by popular opinion argument, unless you are asserting that it is merely popular opinion that smoking causes cancer?
Click to expand...
On the contrary, I know well that smoking can cause cancer.
But that is not what I was arguing. Again, it would appear that my post was mmissed or not read completely.

Throughout this thread, Global Warming supporters have been atrtempting to lay claim that their side of this argument must be right because of the ‘overwhelming’ number of scientists that agree with it.
There is at least one within the past day that is attempting to pass off GW as truth based upon concensus.

Within the proper context, the context of this thread, my comments in the post in question can only mean one thing.
That I am calling to task those that support a ‘scientific truth is dictated by popular opinion’ argument.

The key words to look at here I will point out,
*
The last time we saw “authorities” question and deny something that the scientific evidence was overwhelmingly in support of
Click to expand...
was–*

Overwhelming support?
Really? Put it up. Show us.
Answer the questions…
So where is it rising?
By how much?
Why there and not everywhere?
Isn’t the temperature cooling anywhere as well?
Why don’t we talk about the cooling as well?
Click to expand...
 
LeonBloy said:
No, the example of how the tobacco industry distorted the reaity that smoking tobacco causes cancer is NOT a scientific truth dictated by popular opinion argument, unless you are asserting that it is merely popular opinion that smoking causes cancer?
Click to expand...
On the contrary, I know well that smoking can cause cancer.
But that is not what I was arguing. Again, it would appear that my post was mmissed or not read completely.

Throughout this thread, Global Warming supporters have been atrtempting to lay claim that their side of this argument must be right because of the ‘overwhelming’ number of scientists that agree with it.
There is at least one within the past day that is attempting to pass off GW as truth based upon concensus.

Within the proper context, the context of this thread, my comments in the post in question can only mean one thing.
That I am calling to task those that support a ‘scientific truth is dictated by popular opinion’ argument.

The key words to look at here I will point out,
*
The last time we saw “authorities” question and deny something that the scientific evidence was overwhelmingly in support of
Click to expand...
was–*

Overwhelming support?
Really? Put it up. Show us.
Answer the questions…
So where is it rising?
By how much?
Why there and not everywhere?
Isn’t the temperature cooling anywhere as well?
Why don’t we talk about the cooling as well?
Click to expand...
 
LeonBloy said:
You won’t be paying for it.
Click to expand...
Of that we can all be certain.
I will not purchase your book.
LeonBloy said:
Hundreds of thousands of poor people, largely in extremely poor counties, will pay for it.
Click to expand...
Amortized over that many, I am sure the book will be cheap.
When should I expect delivery?
LeonBloy said:
You are asking for evidence of where the earth is warming–and I stated that it isn’t that simple, i.e. climate doesn’t equal weather.
Click to expand...
No, I am asking for proof that there is man made global warming.
At present, I see none. And given the problems you appear to be having posting it, it would seem you do not have the proof either.
 
ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/wg1-report.html

science works by consensus. Whether you like this or not, that is how it functions. Consensus in this context means something specific. Consensus does not mean popular opinion.

cce.890m.com/scientific-consensus/

this link should answer your question. Please note this excerpt:
*
The SPMs are consensus documents and therefore conservative, the exact opposite of what the skeptics often portray. Negotiators from each UN nation must agree to the precise wording of the summary, but the politicians cannot override the scientists. The conclusions must encompass the views of the most skeptical party, which includes the governments of the United States, China, and Saudi Arabia to name a few.

The WGI SPM concludes that “Warming of the climate system is unequivocal.” That is, it is a fact that the world has warmed. Significantly, “Most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely * due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations.”*

(the bolding is my addition).*
 
LeonBloy said:
temperatures are rising:

cce.890m.com/temperature-record/
Click to expand...
First, show me the thermometer they used that had an accuracy of the purported .1 of a degree.
Second, show me the global observations from that same time period.

Remember, if they want to use the average as they show in the article, then the sample temperatures must represent the entirety of the globe. Without a large number of locations reporting tempreature, this is a problem.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top