Global Warming

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Well, I can’t see how I could have been more clear. Especiallywhen you posted the link again, and it went directly to the article I quoted from.
Ok, I think I must be going crazy…

here’s the exchange that started all this…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscarthecat forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
If that’s true, then “virtually no experts” should be able to explain why hydrocarbons are present on other planets.

The issue isn’t that biological hydrocarbons exist- the issue is that they exist alongside abiological hydrocarbons. To date, we simply haven’t taken the time to figure out which oil deposits are which.

Incidentally, you’re going to need to inform the scientists working on the following project that they are virtually not experts in their field…you can find them at the NASA Astrobiology Unit.

america.gov/st/washfile-e…0.7720453.html
To which you replied…
Look. A link was posted to a news story about a theory of unlimited hydrocarbons that the article itself acknowledged was not believed by any of the experts.
Follow that link from my post…
 
Okay, fair enough Oscarthecat, as I’m definitely not well-versed in the Constitution; however, you must understand my concern. I simply fear that the private sector, driven by the “get rich quick” mentality, will continue to embrace fossil fuels rather than developing renewable energies that we will inevitably rely on for continued prosperity.
 
Okay, fair enough Oscarthecat, as I’m definitely not well-versed in the Constitution; however, you must understand my concern. I simply fear that the private sector, driven by the “get rich quick” mentality, will continue to embrace fossil fuels rather than developing renewable energies that we will inevitably rely on for continued prosperity.
Obviously, that isn’t true, because there are numerous examples of the private market pursuing alternative energies long before the government encouraged the current favorites.

Allowing politics, rather than market forces, to determine our course of action is hardly the best way to discover what will be the objectively superior choice for our future energy needs. For example, think of how the pursuit of ethanol is so rapidly becoming an environmental nightmare. It is well documented not only that e85 and higher concentrations of ethanol produce particularly bad exhaust fumes and are significantly less efficient than traditional gas and diesel, but also that the crops necessary to produce an adequate amount of ethanol require so much fertilizer that the runoff would ruin all arable land it comes in contact with on its way to the gulf, where it would more than triple the size of the already very large dead zone where american rivers meet the gulf of mexico. Additionally, ethanol is ruining the market for our crops because the government subsidies are artificially inflating the value of these crops such that farmers are choosing to produce crops for ethanol instead of food, thus limiting the availability of and inflating the prices of the cost of food in our country.

Meanwhile, other alternative energies, like hydrogen fuel cell technology and near zero emission diesel engine technologies are being stifled in this country thanks to ethanol lobbyists who are fighting hard to keep their political advantage.

Oh, I should also mention that ethanol literally disintegrates critical parts in car engines that aren’t specifically designed for ethanol- a little fact that is curiously absent from the pro-ethanol commercials paid for by government grants.

So before you lose any sleep over the loss of viable energies for lack of government intervention, you should consider the loss of viable energies due to government intervention…and what’s more, you should consider how the promotion and market dominance of inferior technologies due to political gaming might actually hurt us much more in the long run.
 
Okay, fair enough Oscarthecat, as I’m definitely not well-versed in the Constitution; however, you must understand my concern. I simply fear that the private sector, driven by the “get rich quick” mentality, will continue to embrace fossil fuels rather than developing renewable energies that we will inevitably rely on for continued prosperity.
Furthermore, your fear that every market action is motivated by the desire to “get rich quick” is understandable…but keep in mind that whether people succeed or fail in the free market depends completely on whether people like you and me are satisfied with their products.

In other words, your fear of businesses in marketplace is unfounded so long as we, the consumers, are diligent in our efforts to buy the best products made available to us.

So, if someone claims to have developed a “green” car that runs on raw crude oil, spews out clouds of black gas, leaves a trail of asphyxiated wildlife in its wake, and gets 3 gallons to the mile…I’m here to tell you that you don’t need the government holding your hand while you politely tell that idiot you’re not interested in buying his product.

If you genuinely believe that we, the people, are not trustworthy enough to shape the market properly at the level of the individual, then it is illogical to conclude that we, the people, are able to elect a government of people from our own ranks who are trustworthy enough to do it for us. In that case, you should be fighting even harder than me to ensure that a government comprised of such untrustworthy people is allowed as little power as possible.
 
Despite years of study and analysis, the world is unprepared for climate change and needs to rethink basic assumptions that govern things as varied as choosing cars and building bridges, the National Research Council reports.

Current building, land use and planning practices assume a continuation of climate as it has been known in the past.

“That assumption, fundamental to the ways people and organizations make their choices, is no longer valid,” the Council, the working arm of the National Academy of Sciences, said in a report released Thursday.

technewsworld.com/rsstory/66493.html?wlc=1237035831
 
I simply fear that the private sector, driven by the “get rich quick” mentality, will continue to embrace fossil fuels rather than developing renewable energies that we will inevitably rely on for continued prosperity.
I fear that the private sector will not embrace the pursuit of abiotic oil. 😦
 
If virtually every expert says the theory of renewable oil being generated in the earth’s core is weak, at best, then I think it is relevant to any discussion on such a theory. There’s a difference, even in the article that was linked, between regenerating methane and regenerating hydrocarbons like oil
So how did hydrocarbons like methane end up on other planets?

I’m not saying it is a deep earth thing, but clearly there is a mechanism in place that does not require the involvement of living things.
 
So how did hydrocarbons like methane end up on other planets?

I’m not saying it is a deep earth thing, but clearly there is a mechanism in place that does not require the involvement of living things.
THere may very will be for things like methane gas.
 
Oscarthecat, many environmentalists do not support ethanol for reasons similar to those you described. Most now favor natural gas, which is a much better transition fuel because it burns cleaner and is relatively easy to extract and process.
 
Oscarthecat, many environmentalists do not support ethanol for reasons similar to those you described. Most now favor natural gas, which is a much better transition fuel because it burns cleaner and is relatively easy to extract and process.
That’s fine- but it doesn’t change the fact that the government’s support of that particular innovation allowed it to advance in ways would have not been possible if the free market had simply been allowed to operate.

Think about how far along other technologies might have come by now if the artificial promotion of ethanol hadn’t effectively stifled and slowed other, better, alternatives by drawing researchers away with the promise of government funding courtesy of washington lobbyists and politicians beholden to their special interest handlers.

Market forces make no pretense about goals and intentions- researchers, developers, suppliers, entrepreneurs…they’re all there to make a living, and they do that by creating a product consumers want. If consumers want a safe, clean, energy source and are willing to pay for it, then the market will find a way to provide it.

In the free market, when producers abuse that trust by peddling snake oil, then consumers will figure it out in time, and move on to the next producer until they find someone who can provide what they want the way they want it.

But when the government is involved, however, the majority of research goes in the direction that the people in government want it to go- which isn’t necessarily in the best interests of the people they’re supposed to represent. And when that line of research turns out to be faulty, it isn’t simply a matter of consumers moving on to the next producer- they have to wait for the government to approve another big influx of funding.
 
What haunts scientists most, many said, is the feeling that – despite an overwhelming consensus on the science – they are not able to convey to a wider public just how close Earth is to climate catastrophe.

That audience includes world leaders who have pledged to craft, by year’s end, a global climate treaty to slash the world’s output of dangerous greenhouse gases.

It’s as if scientists know a bomb will go off, but can’t find the right words to warn the people who might be able to defuse it.

news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090316/sc_afp/environmentclimatewarmingscientists_20090316080304
 
What haunts scientists most, many said, is the feeling that – despite an overwhelming consensus on the science – they are not able to convey to a wider public just how close Earth is to climate catastrophe.

That audience includes world leaders who have pledged to craft, by year’s end, a global climate treaty to slash the world’s output of dangerous greenhouse gases.

It’s as if scientists know a bomb will go off, but can’t find the right words to warn the people who might be able to defuse it.

news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090316/sc_afp/environmentclimatewarmingscientists_20090316080304
Language is a powerful tool…

“haunts…”
“overwhelming consensus…”
“climate catastrophe…”
“dangerous greenhouse gases…”
“bomb will go off…”
“defuse it…”

Stop pulling punches and say what you really mean…

“RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE IN A FIERY FLOOD!!!
DOOM!!!
DOOOOOOM!!!”

If things are really that bad, I might as well buy an RV and see the world before it catches on fire.

And I’m going to take off the catalytic converter to get better gas mileage.
 
So how did hydrocarbons like methane end up on other planets?

I’m not saying it is a deep earth thing, but clearly there is a mechanism in place that does not require the involvement of living things.
Millions of years ago, super intelligent beings were able to fly through space- they built great civilizations on other planets. The methane is all that is left of them now.

The records of their travels were unearthed by Jim Henson, who knew the world wasn’t ready for the truth- so instead, he created skits based on these using puppets, and inserted them into the Muppet Show.

and thus was born “Pigs in Space.”

Either that, or it is abiotic.
 
Maybe Valke should read the science reports rather than listen to the newspaper. They always llook for a heathen scientist who would sell his soul to the new world order to lie about global warming.

Consider this everyone. Let’s go to the bible and see what Jesus says. He says in the end days the signs will be earthquakes and famines. It seems Valke his writing out what Jesus says. Famines, for all you Al Gore followers, is caused by global cooling not global warming. The wisdom of men is foolishness to God.
 
It’s as if scientists know a bomb will go off, but can’t find the right words to warn the people who might be able to defuse it.
Perhaps because the words to best describe this ‘catastrophe’ are not difinitive.
Might…could…may…perhaps…possibly…should…etc.

The real gag on many of their mouths is the knowledge that as soon as they attempt to use more difinitive language, they lose credibility.
 
Millions of years ago, super intelligent beings were able to fly through space- they built great civilizations on other planets. The methane is all that is left of them now.

The records of their travels were unearthed by Jim Henson, who knew the world wasn’t ready for the truth- so instead, he created skits based on these using puppets, and inserted them into the Muppet Show.

and thus was born “Pigs in Space.”

Either that, or it is abiotic.
I’m certain that L Ron Hubbard had a hand in there as well.
 
What haunts scientists most, many said, is the feeling that – despite an overwhelming consensus on the science – they are not able to convey to a wider public just how close Earth is to climate catastrophe.

That audience includes world leaders who have pledged to craft, by year’s end, a global climate treaty to slash the world’s output of dangerous greenhouse gases.

It’s as if scientists know a bomb will go off, but can’t find the right words to warn the people who might be able to defuse it.

news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090316/sc_afp/environmentclimatewarmingscientists_20090316080304
Yeah from what I have heard scientists aren;t always the best at communicating to the public. A couple good links to look at as well. climateprogress.org/2008/09/30/why-scientists-arent-more-persuasive-part-1 climateprogress.org/2008/10/13/why-scientists-aren’t-more-persuasive-part-2-why-deniers-out-debate-smart-talkers/
 
Yeah from what I have heard scientists aren;t always the best at communicating to the public.
Actually, the problem is that the public has access to scientific information that casts doubt on what the politicians and media are selling. Things like these graphs, for example, showing the urban heat island effect on temperature monitoring stations. The top line are stations from California counties with a population over 1M, the middle graph from counties from 0.1-1.0M and the bottom graph is of counties with fewer than 0.1M. Apparently global warming is strongest in areas of high population. Perhaps it’s related to the number of people exhaling CO2.

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