Gluten free hosts?

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Are you suggesting that the Eucharist always transforms into literal flesh and blood as we consume it? .
Literal flesh and blood, yes, it does. What it does not do is physically change into flesh and blood.

It really does become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.

What it does NOT do is look, taste, smell, weigh, feel (the physical properties) as flesh and blood.

But it, it literally (exactly, truly, in accordance with) IS flesh and blood.
 
Literal flesh and blood, yes, it does. What it does not do is physically change into flesh and blood.

It really does become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ.

What it does NOT do is look, taste, smell, weigh, feel (the physical properties) as flesh and blood.

But it, it literally (exactly, truly, in accordance with) IS flesh and blood.
Yup, in many cases the accidents (physicality) have changed to assure us of the real presence of Jesus flesh and blood in the eucharist.

Here is a link to some eucharistic miracles to assure us of Christ’s literal flesh and blood in the eucharist of his very real presence in the enourmous gift of the eucharist - therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

It was my fault that he said the things that he did, I was unaware of the difference between accidents and substance, the accidents have been known to change though, however when the accidents don’t change, it doesn’t mean that Christ’s literal flesh and blood are any less real in the Eucharist, the miracles assure us of this.

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
**I have celiac disease also. I have never reacted to the low-gluten host either, even though I am quite sensitive. **

I wouldn’t want to increase my risk for cancer, osteoporosis, etc., by taking in gluten on a regular basis, which would happen by receiving the regular host for communion.
Help me to understand Celiac’s, please; people’s sensitivity varies, yes? Thus, one person who limits the intake of whole gluten to one a week, the Lord’s Day, may be fine, but another doing the same, may be anything but fine, in fact, very ill. Yes?
 
Help me to understand Celiac’s, please; people’s sensitivity varies, yes? Thus, one person who limits the intake of whole gluten to one a week, the Lord’s Day, may be fine, but another doing the same, may be anything but fine, in fact, very ill. Yes?
Their outward reaction may vary. BUT inwardly, if you have Celiac, and not gluten intolerance, every time you consume gluten, you cause damage. So their outward reaction may be fine, but their inward reaction won’t be. They are anything BUT fine.

People that have little to no reaction have a hard time avoiding gluten. They don’t know right away if they have eaten. People like me, know right away and end up very very sick.

Doctors vary on how much gluten causes a problem. But they vary between 100 parts per million and 200 parts per million. (We are talking about very very small amounts.)
 
A transformation does take place, the Eucharist IS! the body and blood of Christ, surprisingly alot of Catholics don’t understand this or they refuse to believe due to a lack of faith, Im not sure if I have miss understood you or not but I can gauarntee you that a transformation of the bread and wine does take place during transubstanciation, once transubstanciation has taken place and it becomes the Eucharist, it is no longer bread or wine, therefore it would make sense that they were not affected by it, even if they are intolerent to gluten.

To think of the Eucharist as anything less than the flesh and blood of christ is a mistake, have you not heard of any of the miracles where the Eucharist literally turned into blood and flesh?

These are some of the Eucharistic miracles -

Eucharistic Miracle of Santarém; Santarém, Portugal
Eucharistic Miracle of Betania; Los Teques, Venezuela
Eucharistic Miracle of Sousa; Sousa, Paraíba, Brazil (1814)
Eucharistic Miracle of Ludbreg; Croatia, Ludbreg, Croatia

There is also another which is featured on the Documentary “Signs From God”

There is also another where a starved donkey prostrated itself before the presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

How many more miracles must occur before people will realise that during transubstanciation the bread truly becomes the literal flesh and blood of Christ?

The Eucharist is truly a miracle that occurs at every mass celebration, anyone who claims that the Eucharist is less than the blood and flesh of christ is making a huge mistake and the ministers who place Christ’s words in doubt do much harm when blessing the host.

Thank you for reading
Josh
The essence or substance is changed – the accidents of bread and wine remain. This is the teaching of the Church – it is not a misunderstanding.
 
The essence or substance is changed – the accidents of bread and wine remain. This is the teaching of the Church – it is not a misunderstanding.
please; what is meant by ‘accidents’? thank you
 
in terms of the Eucharist?
Looks like bread, tastes like bread, smells like bread and if it was analyzed in a lab would be found to be wheat flour and water. But the substance is the Body, Blood and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
 
What Phemie said – the host retains gluten, and the Precious Blood retains alcohol.
I don’t know that that’s an accurate thing to say. “Gluten” and “alcohol” are substances (in this case, component substances of “bread” and “wine”). Since “containing gluten” is of the essence of being bread, it would seem that the gluten is not an accident. I have not done any serious philosophical or theological study of the question, but I suspect that the correct view is that when the principal substance is changed all the subsidiary substances are changed as well.

Needless to say, even if that is correct, the consecrated species will continue to act on the world as though they contained gluten and alcohol, since those characteristics are, properly speaking, accidents.
 
What Phemie said – the host retains gluten, and the Precious Blood retains alcohol.
I offer the information that I do not understand the Catholic doctrine regarding the Eucharist. I get so many seemingly different definitions that I do not know which end is up. Partially understood, then not at all…😦
My last thought, which is probably wrong, from someone’s explanation, is that The Holy Spirit is invoked to become present within the bread and wine as the Body and Blood of Christ; that the bread and wine are bread and wine still and always, but with the Body and Blood of Christ as well, once these items are ‘consecrated.’

If this is so, then I’d better understand the dilemma that started this thread. I MAY have a problem with gluten, not Celiacs’, but once a week, for Him, I would give up all other forms.
Forgive me if this is ridiculously wrong or too simple; I need simple.
I am willing to feel :o for this post; to understand once and for all, because my spiritual journey may rest on this.
Thank you for your patience!
 
I offer the information that I do not understand the Catholic doctrine regarding the Eucharist. I get so many seemingly different definitions that I do not know which end is up. Partially understood, then not at all…😦
My last thought, which is probably wrong, from someone’s explanation, is that The Holy Spirit is invoked to become present within the bread and wine as the Body and Blood of Christ; that the bread and wine are bread and wine still and always, but with the Body and Blood of Christ as well, once these items are ‘consecrated.’

If this is so, then I’d better understand the dilemma that started this thread. I MAY have a problem with gluten, not Celiacs’, but once a week, for Him, I would give up all other forms.
Forgive me if this is ridiculously wrong or too simple; I need simple.
I am willing to feel :o for this post; to understand once and for all, because my spiritual journey may rest on this.
Thank you for your patience!
Nearly Cheezey, but I wouldn’t say its to simple or ridiculously wrong.

To take a step back to substance and accidents(I prefer the tern non-substances)
When we have a piece of bread, it can have various shapes, sizes, colours, locations, etc, but there is something there we always recognise as bread even when these other things change. Its not a different loaf when we move it from the shop to the house for example or when we slice it and put butter on it or even when we toast it.

Some essential quality, a ‘what it is to be bread’ remains, this is what we call the substance or "bread-ness’ for want of a better word.

Now when the host are consecrated the holy spirit is invoked to make this change happen, but it is not the holy spirit that remains, but the substance of Christ-“Christness” for want of a better word, is present as the substance after the consecration and so we can say that the host is(in its substance-its essential aspect) Christ.

Those non-substances of the bread mentioned earlier don’t change at all, it still looks like bread and will have the same effect on the body, but while the outward appearence doesn’t change but the inner reality does, it is no longer bread per se but only by outward appearence.

This is one the most beautiful aspect of our Faith in my opinion, and I never grow tired of sharing it.

I hope this is of some help,

God bless.
 
personally I believe that what happens when the Host is consecrated is beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend or human language to explain, so I’m content to accept this as an unexplainable mystery, perhaps the way our Orthodox friends believe.

that said, the celiac issue was a major roadblock to my return to the Church and even now my conscience is not in conformity with Church teachings.

when He instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist, Jesus surely knew that a small percentage of humans suffered from celiac disease, some to a severe degree – there are people who get very ill when they use a fork cross-contaminated by any food with gluten. I’m not talking about feeling bad, but devastatingly sick.

but the Church didn’t know about celiac until the 20th century, so it is not surprising that it would insist on only the purest wheat because, its the Eucharist, and it must be pure, even if the bread used at the Last Supper was ordinary bread, maybe not of the finest flour, maybe with some miller’s grit, or dust in the mix. Jesus took this bread and blessed it, and it became His body, regardless.

Bread can be made out of a variety of things that don’t put my daughter in the hospital if she accidentally ingests gluten. Her personal agony is, I believe, not pleasing to God. Let me put it another way, 20 centuries of that kind of suffering cannot be pleasing to God.

So knowing what we know now, I don’t understand why the Church can’t bend, just a little.

F.
 
the consecrated species will continue to act on the world as though they contained gluten and alcohol, since those characteristics are, properly speaking, accidents.
Agreed. 🙂
the celiac issue was a major roadblock to my return to the Church and even now my conscience is not in conformity with Church teachings.

when He instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist, Jesus surely knew that a small percentage of humans suffered from celiac disease, some to a severe degree – there are people who get very ill when they use a fork cross-contaminated by any food with gluten. I’m not talking about feeling bad, but devastatingly sick.

but the Church didn’t know about celiac until the 20th century, so it is not surprising that it would insist on only the purest wheat because…

Bread can be made out of a variety of things that don’t put my daughter in the hospital if she accidentally ingests gluten. Her personal agony is, I believe, not pleasing to God. Let me put it another way, 20 centuries of that kind of suffering cannot be pleasing to God.

So knowing what we know now, I don’t understand why the Church can’t bend, just a little.
I understand what you mean, where you’re coming from. And, of course, none of us should want your daughter to suffer the effects of consuming gluten-- she definitely should avoid it inasmuch as we are able to prevent it!

The reason we use wheat bread, and only wheat bread, for the Eucharist is that it’s the only kind of bread that scripture and sacred tradition guarantee is valid matter. We know we’re authorized to use it and that it’s valid. Yes, people can and do make bread from other ingredients, such as rye or rice, just as people can and do make wine from other ingredients, such as plums and peaches. But we do not have any guarantee from either scripture or sacred tradition that these other ingredients are valid matter for the Eucharist. We’ve not been authorized to use anything other than wheat bread and grape wine. Similarly, we have the guarantee of scripture and sacred tradition that water is valid matter for baptism; we do not have authorization from the Lord to use beer or pineapple juice instead.

If the Church had invented the sacraments herself, the Church would have the authority to change the matter. Not having invented the sacraments, the Church does not believe that she has the authority to change the matter. In a similar vein, Pope John Paul II wrote “the Church does not consider herself authorized to admit women to priestly ordination.” The Church isn’t withholding ordinations she is authorized to perform; rather, the authority has been withheld from the Church-- she isn’t authorized to perform do it.

Unfortunately for your daughter, this means that her condition will not allow her to receive the Eucharist under the species of bread. That is a very sad thing, and I will not try to deny the loss or any sorrow she may feel as a result. It makes me very sad, too.

If she is not allergic to grape wine, however, she may receive the Eucharist under the species of wine (as long as she receives from a chalice to which no particles of the Host have been added, and that can be arranged). This should be a cause of great joy, because in such a manner she would be receiving the whole Christ in the blessed Sacrament, just as every other communicant does.

Like I said, I am not trying to deny the loss or any sorrow your daughter may feel in having to bypass the Eucharist under the species of bread. Any sorrow she may feel is real, no one should deny it. But I do hope she will be able to receive the whole Christ in the blessed Sacrament under the species of wine. ❤️
 


If the Church had invented the sacraments herself, the Church would have the authority to change the matter. Not having invented the sacraments, the Church does not believe that she has the authority to change the matter. In a similar vein,t…
I admit I cannot conform my conscience to Church teaching on this issue. I do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth would interpret His own words in a way that physically harms the very people He died for especially in the matter of the Eucharist. yes, I’m aware that we have imperfect bodies, that death awaits all men and women, that we’re promised, in this life, pain, toil and persecution, but, this…
 
in terms of the Eucharist?
Looks like bread, tastes like bread, smells like bread and if it was analyzed in a lab would be found to be wheat flour and water. But the substance is the Body, Blood and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
I heard an alternative explanation on Catholic.com radio once. If Jesus were alive today, and you sent Him for a medical check-up, the test results would show up as a healthy, ordinary human male. That is because we believe He is fully human. But the results would not show His divinity as the second person of the Trinity, His Godhead. So likewise, you cannot tell any physical difference between an unconsecrated host and a consecrated host. The species however, is changed.
 
I admit I cannot conform my conscience to Church teaching on this issue. I do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth would interpret His own words in a way that physically harms the very people He died for especially in the matter of the Eucharist. yes, I’m aware that we have imperfect bodies, that death awaits all men and women, that we’re promised, in this life, pain, toil and persecution, but, this…
Can your daughter take alcohol? Struggling with allergies myself, I can sympathize where you’re coming from, but consuming the Precious Blood is the same as consuming the Body of Christ. Perhaps you can approach your pastor to explain your situation and arrange something.
 
I do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth would interpret His own words in a way that physically harms the very people He died for especially in the matter of the Eucharist.
Neither does the Church interpret his words in a way that physically harms people. Your daughter is by no means obligated to consume the Eucharist under the species of bread! Her condition prohibits this, as I recognized.

I also said:
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aspirant:
If she is not allergic to grape wine, however, she may receive the Eucharist under the species of wine (as long as she receives from a chalice to which no particles of the Host have been added, and that can be arranged). This should be a cause of great joy, because in such a manner she would be receiving the whole Christ in the blessed Sacrament, just as every other communicant does.

Like I said, I am not trying to deny the loss or any sorrow your daughter may feel in having to bypass the Eucharist under the species of bread. Any sorrow she may feel is real, no one should deny it. But I do hope she will be able to receive the whole Christ in the blessed Sacrament under the species of wine.
 
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