Gnostic Atheism

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Samwise21

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We’ve all run across this crowd on the internet in one form or another. The section of atheists who claim to know for a fact that there is no God. Among this crowd are people such as:

Penn Jillette

Adam Carolla

Stephen Hawking

P.Z. Myers

Daniel Finke (blogger on Patheos: patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2014/09/i-know-there-is-no-god/)

I’m already of the opinion that the stance is at best illogical, but I was wondering what some of you guys make of this.
 
Sometimes it is more a particular image or understanding of God that they reject.
 
They lack a philosophical background which would enable them to distinguish logical from physical necessity
 
God still has mercy enough for them. They will either come around, or they won’t.
 
tonyrey said:
They lack a philosophical background which would enable them to distinguish logical from physical necessity
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Dan Fincke got his PhD in philosophy from Fordham (and his masters, iirc). You think he lacks a philosophical background?
 
Samwise21 said:
the stance is at best illogical, but I was wondering what some of you guys make of this.
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Nothing!
Here is a chap who calls himself a “Philosopher” and offers to help people with his disbelief - influenced by Nietzsche. Remember, Nietzsche as many atheists ended up in insanity. All of this guy’s prologues are as lengthy and as full of self-adulation as boring. He’s a blind, leading blinds (Matthew 15:14) and even being proud of leading them into the pit.
Atheists offer to change all unmeasurable values of belief - the treasures we are offered to collect in heaven, for a handful of sand. When it run through your fingers, you got nothing.

God however achieved for you and all the huge deed of salvation. Can anyone think of a greater sin than to simply reject this?!

He who does, will condemn himself when he sees God, which all will after their death.
In his as lengthy as hollow essays he as all atheists asks for “scientific evidence for the existence of gods”.
If God had given us suchlike proves, belief would be redundant - for whatever is proven, needs no belief. But as Jesus Christ, who is God in God, Light from Light and true God from true God repeatedly said; it takes belief to enter the small door to God’s kingdom. Many will not. Then it’s a fearful thing to fall into the hands of God! Hebrews 10:31. It’s the atheist’s biz to risk that - not mine!
 
Samwise21 said:
We’ve all run across this crowd on the internet in one form or another. The section of atheists who claim to know for a fact that there is no God. Among this crowd are people such as:

Penn Jillette

Adam Carolla

Stephen Hawking

P.Z. Myers

Daniel Finke (blogger on Patheos: patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2014/09/i-know-there-is-no-god/)

I’m already of the opinion that the stance is at best illogical, but I was wondering what some of you guys make of this.
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Gnosticism

Although the origins of Gnosticism are still largely enveloped in obscurity … it has in reality one deep root-principle, which assimilated in every soil what is needed for its life and growth; this principle is philosophical and religious pessimism.

The Gnostics, it is true, borrowed their terminology almost entirely from existing religions, but they only used it to illustrate their great idea of the essential evil of this present existence and the duty to escape it by the help of magic spells and a superhuman Saviour.

This utter pessimism, bemoaning the existence of the whole universe as a corruption and a calamity, with a feverish craving to be freed from the body of this death and a mad hope that, if we only knew, we could by some mystic words undo the cursed spell of this existence — this is the foundation of all Gnostic thought.

Arendzen, J. (1909). Gnosticism. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm

Modern

German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) is the originator of systematic Pessimism with a merely implied atheism.
 
Vico said:
Gnosticism

Although the origins of Gnosticism are still largely enveloped in obscurity … it has in reality one deep root-principle, which assimilated in every soil what is needed for its life and growth; this principle is philosophical and religious pessimism.

The Gnostics, it is true, borrowed their terminology almost entirely from existing religions, but they only used it to illustrate their great idea of the essential evil of this present existence and the duty to escape it by the help of magic spells and a superhuman Saviour.

This utter pessimism, bemoaning the existence of the whole universe as a corruption and a calamity, with a feverish craving to be freed from the body of this death and a mad hope that, if we only knew, we could by some mystic words undo the cursed spell of this existence — this is the foundation of all Gnostic thought.

Arendzen, J. (1909). Gnosticism. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm

Modern

German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860) is the originator of systematic Pessimism with a merely implied atheism.
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Gnostics believed in God. Atheists do not.
 
KnowtheSilence said:
Dan Fincke got his PhD in philosophy from Fordham (and his masters, iirc). You think he lacks a philosophical background?
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Educated himself out of intelligence…

No atheists in a foxhole. I say put them all in the Marine Corps and throw them on the front lines, see what they say then.
 
Some think Gnostics believe in God. That’s wrong. They believe in the POSSIBILITY THAT THERE MIGHT BE A GOD OR GODS. That’s an unbridgable gap between belive and speculation. Yes atheists say there is nothing. Gnostics say there might be something. Both denies the one and only God in the most Holy Trinity, which is an absolute denying of Jesus Christ’s doctrine. Heresy pure. They don’t know God as He Himself and Jesus Christ revealed Himself to us. Such; Jesus will not recognize them before The Father.
 
Samwise21 said:
We’ve all run across this crowd on the internet in one form or another. The section of atheists who claim to know for a fact that there is no God. Among this crowd are people such as:

Penn Jillette

Adam Carolla

Stephen Hawking

P.Z. Myers

Daniel Finke (blogger on Patheos: patheos.com/blogs/camelswithhammers/2014/09/i-know-there-is-no-god/)

I’m already of the opinion that the stance is at best illogical, but I was wondering what some of you guys make of this.
Click to expand...
For the record, in his book Penn Jillette explicitly says he doesn’t know for a fact there is no God.

Personally, I don’t think it is possible to claim it as a fact. I can demonstrate that certain beliefs about God are irrational, and I have never seen proof or even compelling evidence of a God, but that doesn’t prove there isn’t one.
 
Vico said:
Yes. The quote is about the foundations not the actual sects.
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What is your definition of a gnostic? I have only heard of the early Christian gnostics. What am I missing? Is there a new movement of people who call themselves gnostics?

Gnosticism (from Ancient*Greek: γνωστικός gnostikos, “having knowledge”, from γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) is a modern name for a variety of ancient religious ideas and systems, originating in Jewish milieus in the first and second century AD. Based on their readings of the Torah and other Biblical writings, these systems induced that the material world is created by an ignorant emanation of the highest God, trapping the Divine spark within the human body. This Divine spark could be liberated by gnosis of this Divine spark.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
What is your definition of a gnostic? I have only heard of the early Christian gnostics. What am I missing? Is there a new movement of people who call themselves gnostics?
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There has been a trend among some nonbelievers over the past decade or so to broaden the definition of “atheist” to include all people who simply don’t believe in God, including people who would normally be called agnostics instead of atheists. They use “theism” and “atheism” to talk about belief in God, and “gnosticism” and “agnosticism” to talk about knowledge claims about God. So someone who doesn’t believe in God but who wouldn’t claim to know that God did exist would be an “agnostic atheist;” one who didn’t believe and did claim to know would be a “gnostic atheist.”
 
KnowtheSilence said:
There has been a trend among some nonbelievers over the past decade or so to broaden the definition of “atheist” to include all people who simply don’t believe in God, including people who would normally be called agnostics instead of atheists. They use “theism” and “atheism” to talk about belief in God, and “gnosticism” and “agnosticism” to talk about knowledge claims about God. So someone who doesn’t believe in God but who wouldn’t claim to know that God did exist would be an “agnostic atheist;” one who didn’t believe and did claim to know would be a “gnostic atheist.”
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So a gnostic atheist is a someone who thinks he knows everything and can prove there is no God? Why not just say a know-it-all atheist as opposed to a know-nothing atheist?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
So a gnostic atheist is a someone who thinks he knows everything and can prove there is no God? Why not just say a know-it-all atheist as opposed to a know-nothing atheist?
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No, it’s not about “know everything,” but knowing enough to draw a conclusion. And it not about “proof,” it’s about the balance of evidence.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
What is your definition of a gnostic? I have only heard of the early Christian gnostics. What am I missing? Is there a new movement of people who call themselves gnostics?

Gnosticism (from Ancient*Greek: γνωστικός gnostikos, “having knowledge”, from γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) is a modern name for a variety of ancient religious ideas and systems, originating in Jewish milieus in the first and second century AD. Based on their readings of the Torah and other Biblical writings, these systems induced that the material world is created by an ignorant emanation of the highest God, trapping the Divine spark within the human body. This Divine spark could be liberated by gnosis of this Divine spark.
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Here are some of the “variety of ancient religious ideas and systems”: There are modern forms to (some tiny).

I. Syrian-Egyptian Gnosticism
  • Sethite-Barbeloite
  • Samaritan Baptist sects
  • Valentinianism
  • Thomasine traditions
  • Marcion
  • Hermeticism
  • Naassenes
  • Ophites
  • Serpentarians
  • Carpocratians
  • Borborites
  • Cerinthus
  • Cainites
II. Persian Gnosticism
  • Manichaeism
  • Mandaeanism
III. Middle Age Gnosticism
  • Catharism
  • Kabbalah (influence)
IV. Modern Gnosticism
  • Mandaens (Iraq)
  • Ecclesia Gnostica
  • Apostolic Johannite Church
  • Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica / Ordo Templi Orientis
  • Thomasine Church
  • Alexandrian Gnostic Church
  • North American College of Gnostic Bishops
 
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