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CHRISTINE77
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I don’t see any atheists on this list.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Huh?
please elaborate.
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Vico
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Atheists are not on that list because the modern philosophy of pessimism is not identified as Gnosticism, but pessimism (which may or may not be athiest) is a common basis of both.
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Vico
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Note that I edited my post to:
Atheists are not on that list because the modern philosophy of pessimism is not identified as Gnosticism, but pessimism (which may or may not be athiest) is a common basis of both.
For Pessimism and Gnosticism see:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14691399&postcount=9
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Vico
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Yes, I think at least some modern schools are not like the earlier schools, based in pessimism, so I would not call those truly Gnosticism. The pessimism in original schools is simply that the universe is inherently evil, or alternatively, flawed or as simply limited to imperfection by nature – and hopefully one can be freed of this type of existence.
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Faithdancer
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And if he calls them, they will not be able to resist. Him being omnipotent and all.
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Faithdancer
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Atheism is denial, yes. And illogical.
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Vico
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Hermeticism sought freedom from the planetary sphere influence.
I don’t know much about Kabbalah, but I think the origin of evil in the Godhead (the power of judgement I think) is the idea similar to the Gnostic.
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Vico
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For Medieval Kabbalists, the Sefiroth are potencies constituting the Godhead, described in On the Mystical Shape of the Godhead: Basic Concepts in the Kabbalah By Gershom Scholem
And Aryeh Kaplan writes in The Bahir:
“The concept of Chesed-Love is that of freely giving, while that of Gevurah-Strength is that of restraint. When it is said that Strength is restraint, it is in the sense of the teaching “Who is strong, he who restrains his urge”. It is obvious that man can restrain his nature, but if man can do so, then God certainly can. God’s nature, however, is to do good and therefore, when He restrains His nature, the result is evil. The sephira of Gevurah-Strength is therefore seen as the source of evil.”
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Vico
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I did not know that. The idea I am referring to is stated in the first source I posted, p. 83:
"It is precisely the rigorously theistic tendency of Lurianic Kabbalah that requires evil as a factor necessarily inherent in Creation per se, without which Creation would instantly loose its separate existence and return to being absorbed in the Infinite. …The existence of evil in potentia,indeed of Satan himself, is rooted in God; whereas prior to tsimtsum it was included in the light of the Infinite, which contains the seeds of darkness, evil becomes progressively more independent during the course of a dialectic process … "
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Vico
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We see a great difference between Christianity where God is Creator of the world ex nihilo, vs any system with emanation, including Gnosticism such as those of Basilides and Valentinus, in which emanation played a prominent part.
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PRmerger
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This “all existence” must be a qualified “all”, I presume?
Clearly, not ALL existence is pure joy–
nytimes.com/2017/05/23/world/europe/uk-manchester-attack-survivors.html?_r=0
What is your religion’s explanation for the existence of evil?
How do you explain this?
dailywire.com/news/9927/muslim-father-rapes-own-daughter-becoming-too-amanda-prestigiacomo#
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reggieM
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As I see it, a Gnostic Atheism is very much like the exaltation and worship of a specialized kind of knowledge - just as ancient Religious Gnosticism is. Ultimately, it is putting Self in the place of God.
Religious gnostics were known to have secret knowledge - various mystery-rites only for the initiated and the elect. Freemasonry is a modern version of Gnostic Religion of ancient times.
So, there is talk about gods, but its not God who is accessed through faith, humility, virtue and worship – but a god accessed through knowing various secrets about nature or material things. It’s a religion of Pride - Self-Fulfillment with the human being who has this supposed higher knowledge being at the peak of all things.
Gnostics were like Magicians - who worked wonders through magic tricks. They saw themselves as set-apart from the rabble of society, the uneducated and uninitiated. They were the special-ones and everyone else was not. It’s like the 33rd Degree of Freemasonry, available only to the select few, with hidden knowledge.
Materialist atheism is a parallel to Freemasonry. It’s the same kind of worship of knowledge and ultimately worship of Self - but without the supposed gods of nature that have magic powers. Instead, it’s secret knowledge accessed through materialist philosophy and science – that arrive at no gods at all.
Each atheist, ultimately, puts him or herself in the position of the elect. There really is no one else who can count for much - only the lone self of the atheist who must believe he/she has an independence from God.
But the Gnosis is basically the same in any case. The elect (or elites) have a kind of secret understanding - and knowledge of the physical aspect of things is seen as the only truth.
Religious gnostics were known to have secret knowledge - various mystery-rites only for the initiated and the elect. Freemasonry is a modern version of Gnostic Religion of ancient times.
So, there is talk about gods, but its not God who is accessed through faith, humility, virtue and worship – but a god accessed through knowing various secrets about nature or material things. It’s a religion of Pride - Self-Fulfillment with the human being who has this supposed higher knowledge being at the peak of all things.
Gnostics were like Magicians - who worked wonders through magic tricks. They saw themselves as set-apart from the rabble of society, the uneducated and uninitiated. They were the special-ones and everyone else was not. It’s like the 33rd Degree of Freemasonry, available only to the select few, with hidden knowledge.
Materialist atheism is a parallel to Freemasonry. It’s the same kind of worship of knowledge and ultimately worship of Self - but without the supposed gods of nature that have magic powers. Instead, it’s secret knowledge accessed through materialist philosophy and science – that arrive at no gods at all.
Each atheist, ultimately, puts him or herself in the position of the elect. There really is no one else who can count for much - only the lone self of the atheist who must believe he/she has an independence from God.
But the Gnosis is basically the same in any case. The elect (or elites) have a kind of secret understanding - and knowledge of the physical aspect of things is seen as the only truth.
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reggieM
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If you think atheists give clear explanations on why they do not believe that God exists, I would like to see some of that.
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reggieM
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If you think that is sufficient then I wouldn’t think you’d have much to discuss with atheists, right?
Yes, I know many of them do.
Yes, but you just said all they’re saying is there is no convincing evidence. Apparently, that is enough for you.
I’ll have to guess that you don’t have any convincing evidence that God exists yourself, right? When shown evidence, would you simply say “it’s not convincing”?
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Vico
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It was not unqualified and the original are. See the original post I made referencing Catholic Encyclopedia. The recent groups the call themselves Gnostic are not like the original.
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reggieM
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Vico
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So you did not read the posts where I mentioned that diversity?
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Charlemagne_III
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The most curious fact is that atheists demand proof for God but are clueless as to proving there is no God. 
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Vico
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No, it is not a very good analysis and we have must more information today. For the post you are referring to I wrote that pessimism is a common basis of both philosophical pessimism and Gnosticism, and I mean origins of Gnosticism, most of the early groups died out.
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