Gnostic Christianity?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 4givemeasinner
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
4

4givemeasinner

Guest
Not sure if this is the right place for this thread. But what is gnostic Christianity? Does it still exist? Are they recognized? What rites to they have/use?

Sorry for all the questions.
 
Gnosticism is not Christian. It is an early (1st/2nd century) group of heresies. Gnosticism as a whole may have pre-Chrisitan roots in the East.

While the early heresies died out, there are those who have tried to revive or create their own version of it.

See here:

newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm
 
4givemeasinner said:
Not sure if this is the right place for this thread. But what is gnostic Christianity? Does it still exist? Are they recognized? What rites to they have/use?

Sorry for all the questions.
Click to expand...
Gnosticism is the theory of salvation by knowledge. Already in the 1st century of the Christian era there were Gnostics who claimed to know the mysteries of the universe. They were disciples of the various pantheistic sects that existed before Christ. The Gnostics borrowed what suited their purpose from the Gospels, wrote new gospels of their own, and in general proposed a dualistic system of belief. Matter was said to be hostile to spirit, and the universe was held to be a depravation of the Deity. Although extinct as an organized religion, Gnosticism is the invariable element in every major Christian heresy, by its denial of an objective revelation that was completed in the apostolic age and its disclaimer that Christ established in the Church a teaching authority to interpret decisively the meaning of the revealed word of God.
 
1ke said:
Gnosticism is not Christian. It is an early (1st/2nd century) group of heresies. Gnosticism as a whole may have pre-Chrisitan roots in the East.

While the early heresies died out, there are those who have tried to revive or create their own version of it.

See here:

newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm
Click to expand...
There seems to be Gnostic’s around today. The Choose Parts of Scripture out the bible and reject many others as Incorrect nor Authoritative. According to Irenaeus: They can not extract plain truth from scripture. They allege the truth is not delivered by means of written documents. They Go by Via a Voice for special knowledge ‘‘gnosis’’.
 
If you’d rather ask this question to people who hold Gnostic viewpoints, you can go to Spiral Inward and ask there.

People make the mistake of thinking there was some monolithic Gnosticism vs Orthodoxy in the early life of Christianity. What you really had was a wide spectrum of different teachings and teachers, some that were similar and some that were in opposition to each other.

Gnosticism most likely grew out of pre-Christian Hellenized Judaism in Alexandria and possibly Syria. They drew heavily from middle Platonism. Some were dualists, some were monists. Some thought that the proto-Catholic church was to be stayed away from, some were perfectly content with members attending regular services in addition to holding Gnostic points of view. Some believed the Old Testament god was a malevolent creator (Sethians) and some believed that the Old Testament god was necessary for the salvation of mankind (Valentinians). Some believed that flesh and matter was evil and that sex and childbirth was to be avoided (Sethians), some believed that the only way to transcend matter was to dive headfirst into decadent behavior (Carpocratians), and some believed that flesh and sex and childbirth were good and were necessary for salvation (Valentinians).

There are no churches that derive from ancient Gnosticism though there are churches that claim a revival of these practices such as the Ecclesia Gnostica, the Apostolic Johannite Church, and the Alexandrian Gnostic Church. The Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, while sounding like a Gnostic church, isn’t actually Gnostic. It derives from the teachings of Thelema promulgated by one Aleister Crowley.

There is only one group today that is derived from ancient Gnosticism, the Mandaeans of Iraq. However, the Mandaeans aren’t Christian. They consider Christ to be a false messiah and instead hold John the Baptist to be the true messiah.

Not only did early proto-orthodox teachers such as Irenaeus write treatises against their theology, they also received criticism from Neoplatonists such as Plotinus for saying that the Demiurge was an evil being.
 
I don’t know a whole lot about Gnostic Christianity. And to NoWings point if the question would rather be asked of people who hold Gnostic viewpoints, I believe I’ve seen a Gnostic Christian post here on this subforum.
 
Gnosticism is very much alive and they were the true Christians, the psychic Christians who are ignorant of the truth have always tried to suppress the Gnostic religion, in other words the pneumatic Christians who assert that Paul was actually a Gnostic and derive their Christology, Sacramentology and eschatology from the same Bible as read by millions of Christians worldwide.

I still think that Valentinian Christians will be a biggest threat to the Catholic religion.

“By attempting to bridge this gap, however, Valentinus and his followers became the proverbial wolves in sheep’s clothing. “The apparent similarity with orthodox teaching only made this heresy more dangerous – like poison disguised as milk.” Valentinian Gnosticism was “the most influential and sophisticated form of Gnostic teaching, and by far the most threatening to the church.”
  • Pagels
What is their Christology?

“In Christ dwells all the pleroma of deity in bodily form.” Col 2:9

According to the Gnostics pleroma doesn’t just mean fullness as the psychic Christians interpret it instead pleroma has a local existence and actually forms the body of Christ. i.e. All other Aeons reside in Christ and form his mystical body. This is the esoteric message of St. Paul.

“Christ has each within him, whether human being or angel or mystery.” - (Gospel of Philip 56:14-15)

“People cannot see anything in the real realm unless they become it…if you have seen the spirit, you have become the spirit; if you have seen Christ, you have become Christ; if you have seen the Father, you will become the Father.” - (Gospel of Philip 61:20-32 cf. 67:26-27)

“It was quite amazing that Aeons were in the Father without being acquainted with him and that they alone were able to emanate, inasmuch as they were not able to perceive and recognize the one in whom they were” - (Gospel of Truth 22:27-32)

“All the emanations from the Father, therefore, are Pleromas, and all his emanations have their roots in the one who caused them all to grow from himself.” - (Gospel of Truth)

What is their Eschatology?

Its known as realized eschatology, i.e. you don’t have to wait for the second coming instead you can embrace your angel here and now and be one with him.

“Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing.” - Gospel of Philip.

The empirical world is an illusion and it doesn’t exist independent of us.

“Do not suppose that the resurrection is an illusion. It is not an illusion; rather it is something real. Instead, one ought to maintain that the world is an illusion, rather than resurrection” - (Treatise on Resurrection 48: 12-17)

Humans do not have free will.

“For just as the Demiurge, secretly moved by Sophia (Wisdom), believes that he acts alone, so also with human beings.” - (Excerpts of Theodotus 53:4)

To sum it up we came from the Pleroma, we are going back to the Pleroma and this returning to fullness is inevitable.
 
“Gnostic” is usually a classification of a group of syncretic religions that tended to meld the old paganism with the new Monotheism. Although they had varying beliefs, and did not necessarily involve a Christian element, they all had the concept of salvation coming through the reception of some sort of secret knowledge (hence the name “gnostic” - one who knows). They tended to have other common points of theology, such as reincarnation, the idea of procreation as sin, and the idea that the Abrahamic God is a lesser being, and evil, although not all necessarily had these beliefs.

There are two forms of Gnosticism which survive from ancient times (they also happen to be the only two I’m aware of that didn’t see procreation as sin), the Yazidi, a syncretic blend of Sufi Islam and Zoroastrianism, and the Mandaens, a syncretic blend of Judaism and Zoroastrianism. Manichianism, a blend of Christianity, and pretty much everything it ever came in contact with, and which St. Augustine was once a follower of, survived until the 15th century, when its last enclave was wiped out in China.

There are also Neo-gnostics around today, and they’ve proliferated particularly in the wake of the discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library, an until-then lost library of Gnostic texts. They claim an unbroken chain from the original gnostic movements, however there is absolutely no evidence of this. At best they were “revived” in the 19th century.
 
Publisher said:
True, ancient Gnostics of all traditions as well as modern Gnostics consider themselves Christian…it’s no big surprise Catholics don’t.🙂
Click to expand...
They do there best to try and get you away from the bible any bible catholic or protestant. They seem to take this scripture out of context where Jesus was addressing the Jews who could not see christ in the OT scriptures saying> You search the scriptures because in them you think you have eternal life. These are the very scritures that testify of me. yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
They interpret this verse Christ is saying here to Christians STOP reading scripture and Just hear from Jesus only.
When it comes to Tradition. Jesus had a go at Jews because they follow traditions of men. Man made traditions.
They Interpret this verse Christ is saying to Christians STOP following the Tradition of the Church because they are man made traditions.
When you point out Paul saying Continue in the Tradition that has been handed whether Oral or written. They argue I follow the red letters of Jesus in the 4 Gospels because Jesus said we will be Judged by his words. They think the rest of Scripture you can forget because they was written by falible men.

If you point out Philp showed christ from the OT to the Ethiopian they ingnore that. When you Point out Paul through his spiritual insight got the new testament Gospel from the OT and that is why the bereans Jews studied the scripture to see if Paul is teaching the Truth. They argue from Galatians that Paul did not consult the other Apostles and no man taught paul but only God. They seem to think Paul got the Gospel he taught out of thin Air with God [Now they are loseing the Argument] because the last stated paul was falible. [They seem to hate people with bible Knowledge believing they are decieved]. When you point out yes in Acts 22 God directly told Paul he would preach to the Gentiles. But Paul later backed it up with OT scripture that the Gentiles are included. Hosea 1:9-10. Romans 9:25. And there is also over 300 verses in the NT writtings of Paul were he used the OT scripture in teaching the NT Gospel of Christ.

I waited for their reply. No reply came in the Inbox. When i check on the website. My comment is removed and i am blocked.🤷
 
Gnostics were groups of professing christians that believed that one is saved through what is, quite frankly, a bizarre, secret kind of knowledge (or ‘gnosis’). There was a lot of diversity; it’s not like there was one gnostic clan and every gnostic followed it-- their were many gnostic groups, often with their own scriptures. As far as I know, they published their scriptures in the second, third and fourth centuries, respectively. These include the Gospel of Thomas, The Second Treatise of The Great Seth, The Secret Book of John, The Gospel of Judas, etc.

They believed that Jesus didn’t actually have a physical body, but that he transmitted the Gospel message via the secret knowledge [or ‘gnosis’] of gnostic sages. Since the Nag Hammadi scrolls were recently translated from Coptic into English, many gnostic texts are now available to the public (I have a book that contains a collection of various gnostic texts).

In short, the gnostic scriptures are some of the most bizarre texts I’ve ever encountered. The Gospel of Judas presents Judas Iscariot as some kind of hero and the most loyal follower of Jesus. The Secret Book of John has all kinds of strange verses, details of which are too disgusting to post here (some involving rape, masturbation, androgyny, etc).
 
drac16 said:
Gnostics were groups of professing christians that believed that one is saved through what is, quite frankly, a bizarre, secret kind of knowledge (or ‘gnosis’). There was a lot of diversity; it’s not like there was one gnostic clan and every gnostic followed it-- their were many gnostic groups, often with their own scriptures. As far as I know, they published their scriptures in the second, third and fourth centuries, respectively. These include the Gospel of Thomas, The Second Treatise of The Great Seth, The Secret Book of John, The Gospel of Judas, etc.

They believed that Jesus didn’t actually have a physical body, but that he transmitted the Gospel message via the secret knowledge [or ‘gnosis’] of gnostic sages. Since the Nag Hammadi scrolls were recently translated from Coptic into English, many gnostic texts are now available to the public (I have a book that contains a collection of various gnostic texts).

In short, the gnostic scriptures are some of the most bizarre texts I’ve ever encountered. The Gospel of Judas presents Judas Iscariot as some kind of hero and the most loyal follower of Jesus. The Secret Book of John has all kinds of strange verses, details of which are too disgusting to post here (some involving rape, masturbation, androgyny, etc).
Click to expand...
I read in one Gnostic Cospel a woman had to become a man before she can enter the kingdom of God.The Gospel of Thomas shows Jesus at 5 years of age having knowledge that was way above the Jewish religous teachers. Besides raising some people from the dead. Jesus also killed People and even other Children…I just read the secret book of John and it does have some stange verses that are in opposition to what Moses wrote. I read the Part where Adam Raped Eve. But i did not read anything about mastubation. What veres was that ?
 
drac16 said:
Gnostics were groups of professing christians
Click to expand...
Some, not all. Gnosticism originated out of Hellenized Judaism.
They believed that Jesus didn’t actually have a physical body, but that he transmitted the Gospel message via the secret knowledge [or ‘gnosis’] of gnostic sages.
Click to expand...
Some Gnostics did take to Docetism but not all. If I remember correctly, the Valentinians taught that the Logos descended upon Christ at the baptism in the Jordan and that the Logos left Jesus’ body just before his physical death on the cross.

Other Gnostic sects taught that, instead of Jesus, Simon of Cyrene was crucified in his place.
 
shaky said:
I read in one Gnostic Cospel a woman had to become a man before she can enter the kingdom of God.
Click to expand...
Most likely a Sethian text. Women were associated with matter along with sex and childbirth. Many Sethians were ascetics in the extreme. Men were considered more spiritual, so the male was considered superior in allegorical terms.

Remember, you can’t read a Gnostic text literally. Big mistake. One interpretation of that bit of text is that Mary will gain gnosis and become like a man (spiritual). Another is that Jesus, knowing that Peter must be talked to like a child who doesn’t understand, was using language that he would understand.
The Gospel of Thomas shows Jesus at 5 years of age having knowledge that was way above the Jewish religous teachers. Besides raising some people from the dead. Jesus also killed People and even other Children…I just read the secret book of John and it does have some stange verses that are in opposition to what Moses wrote. I read the Part where Adam Raped Eve. But i did not read anything about mastubation. What veres was that ?
Click to expand...
That’s not the Gospel of Thomas. That’s the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. The two are different texts and neither are considered Gnostic, though they are both non-canonical.
 
shaky said:
I read in one Gnostic Cospel a woman had to become a man before she can enter the kingdom of God.The Gospel of Thomas shows Jesus at 5 years of age having knowledge that was way above the Jewish religous teachers. Besides raising some people from the dead. Jesus also killed People and even other Children…I just read the secret book of John and it does have some stange verses that are in opposition to what Moses wrote. I read the Part where Adam Raped Eve. But i did not read anything about mastubation. What veres was that ?
Click to expand...
The highlighted reference was from the Gospel of Thomas…which is not necessarily a Gnostic text. The quote you reference reflected a belief of the time that women were incomplete men and not necessarily fully human.

The the other reference in blue was not a Gnostic text at all, but a proto-orthodox text called the “Infancy Gospel of Thomas”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top