Can anyone say LITURGICAL ABUSE? Why is it ok to eviscerate the Agnus Dei during Advent? How can we surrender the liturgy to some mediocre composer so that it fits his jingle?Ah, yes. “Missa Emmanuel”.
The final straw in me leaving one of my former parishes. The total gutting of the Agnus Dei was the reason.
I was talking about “Christ has died Christ is risen, Christ will come again” if that is not the memorial acclamation I apologize.I think what the OP meant was that all the acclamations they use during Advent are set to the tune of O Come, O Come…
My parish uses a call-and-response version that adds words. I just don’t sing the extra words.My solution:
Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis
Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis
Agnus Dei qui tollis peccata mundi, dona nobis pacem.
Yup… In another thread, I had a question about the text of this Agnus Dei and ended up asking the director nicely if I could only use “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world” instead of the myriad of other “options”. But I have now been given permission to leave that parish and become parishioner of our cathedral parish. So I no longer will have to cantor that music anyway.Ah, yes. “Missa Emmanuel”.
The final straw in me leaving one of my former parishes. The total gutting of the Agnus Dei was the reason.
I didn’t think that was necessary any more. I did have to get written permission to join my cathedral parish back in '83. That’s another very nasty story. Our cathedral parish has been “open” fro anyone in the diocese to join since the early 90s.Yup… In another thread, I had a question about the text of this Agnus Dei and ended up asking the director nicely if I could only use “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world” instead of the myriad of other “options”. But I have now been given permission to leave that parish and become parishioner of our cathedral parish. So I no longer will have to cantor that music anyway.
Though this thread won’t be applicable for another year, I thought I’d just respond and explain what I meant. No, the L’homme arme parody masses are not the same as the Veni etc… masses. But they are both “parody” masses nonetheless in that they operate on the same principle of taking a preexisting tunes and creating a new work with it. The L’homme arme masses differ in that the mass settings are created more around the original tune and you have a work that is entirely different from the original. The Veni etc…mass is more of a mass that showcases the original tune. That method has the potential to create really awkward word placements and accents. All I was saying was that the way the L’homme arme masses are more successful in how they treat the original melody and thus create an entirely new piece of music (sometimes with absolutely amazing results). I don’t feel that the “Veni, veni” mass is as successul since its trying to hard to showcase the melody in a way that is just (IMO) awkward.Are we talking about the same setting? Veni, veni, Emmanuel is not L’homme, l’homme, l’homme arme. L’homme, arme, l’homme arme, l’homarme condute. The first is early plainsong. The second is from the Hundred Years War. Not the same.
They made up for it with a wonderful Chrstmas Eve mass although ill have to admit that an entrance song of “we three kings” was a little strange.Oh man, I never heard this setting until sometime last week when the music director decided to start using it during daily Masses. The wording is just really awkward with the melody (which I don’t care for anyway).
You would like us to “return”??? Apparently you don’t understand what the whole hymn thing is.I think that there is far too much borrowing of tunes from one hymn for use in another. In many hymnals, for example, the tunes “Ode to Joy,” “Hyfrydol,” and “St. Anne” are used for several hymns. Even the “Heritage Mass” is borrowed from (Holy)³, and the Mass parts based on “Land of Rest” (Episcopal Hymnal) reduce this beautiful Scottish tune to a repetitious drudgery. I would like to return to the use of one tune for one set of words. Using the tune “Veni Emmanuel” for anything other than the original chant is taking it out of context, even if the Mass parts are intended for use in Advent. It is like drinking eggnog in July.
As I understood it (and I am quite open to correction by those who know better) the practice of using more than one word set for a tune or vice versa is the older of the two practices and that the idea of universal use of one set of words for one tune came later and didn’t set in till about the time “Hymns Ancient and Modern” was published. (There would be no point at all in all those metrical indexes in hymnals if tunes were never reused.I would like to return to the use of one tune for one set of words.