Go directly to hell, do not pass go!

[trogiah]

Particular acts, mortal sin, can lead us to damnation.

“With every freely committed mortal sin, he offends God as the giver of the law and as a result becomes guilty with regard to the entire law (cf. Jas 2:8-11); even if he perseveres in faith, he loses “sanctifying grace”, “charity” and “eternal happiness”.114 As the Council of Trent teaches, “the grace of justification once received is lost not only by apostasy, by which faith itself is lost, but also by any other mortal sin”.115…”

Trangressions of the law only warrant condemnation under the law if one judges others based on the law.

If one practices forgiveness of others who break the law, one can count on forgiveness from God for breaking the law.

This doesn’t mean one should feel free to break the law without consequence because God’s law, properly understood and followed, leads to fullness of life. The failure to follow God’s law does lead to all kinds of real and substantial consequences, no matter how forgiving we may be. But eternal damnation is not an automatic consequence of breaking any law… unless it is a consequence we impose on others - then it is a consequence God will hold us to as well.

Jim

 

[setter]

Trangressions of the law only warrant condemnation under the law if one judges others based on the law.

But eternal damnation is not an automatic consequence of breaking any law… unless it is a consequence we impose on others - then it is a consequence God will hold us to as well.
Jim

Can you provide authoritative Church documentation to support this?

 

[trogiah]

Can you provide authoritative Church documentation to support this?

The documentation that convinces me this is true comes from the gospels which I think do count as authoritative Church documentation.

From chapter 5 of Matthews gospel:

“Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.”
From chapter 6

“If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.
But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions.”
From chapter 7

"Stop judging, that you may not be judged.
For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. "

From chapter 18 (towards the end of the parable of the unforgiving servant)

“His master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to. Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?’ Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart.”

These statements indicate clearly to me that condemnation does not come directly from any particular act of law-breaking. Rather it comes from the failure to practice forgiveness.

Again, this understanding does not mean it is OK to break any law because if I am forgiving than God will forgive me. There are other consequences to avoid besides eternal damnation that make it a good idea to follow God’s laws.

Jim

 

[fix]

Trangressions of the law only warrant condemnation under the law if one judges others based on the law.

If one practices forgiveness of others who break the law, one can count on forgiveness from God for breaking the law.

This doesn’t mean one should feel free to break the law without consequence because God’s law, properly understood and followed, leads to fullness of life. The failure to follow God’s law does lead to all kinds of real and substantial consequences, no matter how forgiving we may be. But eternal damnation is not an automatic consequence of breaking any law… unless it is a consequence we impose on others - then it is a consequence God will hold us to as well.

Jim

This seems to contradict Church teaching. Whose authority do you use to prove your assertion?

Mortal sin destroys sanctifying grace. We know what constitutes mortal sin.

 

[VociMike]

I was raised by nuns and Xaverian Brothers in grammar and Prep school respectively.

We were taught that masturbation, referred to as “self-abuse,” was a mortal sin. This meant that the individual would be sent to hell to be punished for all eternity.

I am now 60. It seems to me that the loving Christ as seen in scripture could not sanction such a punishment for an act which is today thought of by most professionals and thoughtful people as perfectly natural.

I have been away from the church for years after an adolescence full of guilt and endless confessions for this transgression.

Does the church still teach this? If it does not, I have another reason to return to the practice of my faith.

I agree with the church on abortion. But I do not understand why birth control, which might prevent the unwanted pregnancy, is regarded as such a serious transgression. To allow the latter would help reduce the former.

I hope I don’t get chewed out for asking these questions but I do so in good faith in an attempt to return to my faith.

Thanks for reading this.

Peter 3120

I will attempt to offer the position of the Church in good faith as well. In the first place, millions of Catholics have been taught quite wrongly that “doing X is a mortal sin”, when in fact what they should have been taught is that “doing X is grave matter”. That is to say, while e.g. murder (unlawful taking of human life) is objectively a grave act, it is not automatically a mortal sin. For a sin to be mortal, it must involve (a) grave matter, (b) full knowledge of the grave nature of the act, and (c) full consent to the act. B and C must also be present for a sin to be mortal, and an outsider cannot possibly know for certain that they are present each and every time any person does X. So no, masturbation is not automatically a mortal sin. In fact, it is probably not a mortal sin very often (based on remembering back to my own youth), but it is grave matter and is something to be avoided for our own spiritual health, just like we should avoid drinking bleach for our own physical health.

But why is masturbation grave matter? I do see this much more clearly now that I’m older. The problem is that it separates sex from the two objects of sex, which are as an expression of love in marriage, and as the path to bringing new human beings (that is, new immortal souls) into the world. Again, judging by my own past, masturbation certainly does make sexual pleasure a goal in and of itself, and it leads quite “naturally” to using women for sexual pleasure, and I am ashamed to say that in the past I have feigned affection for women when what I was really interested in was using them as sexual objects. As I said, this is a natural next step after first “using” imagined women in the act of masturbation (and let’s not forget how pornography feeds all of this as well). Using people (including ourselves) for our own ends and pleasures, that is the real grave matter. It was only later in life that I realized how “modern” sexual attitudes (of which I was all in favor) truly make all of us, but women in particular, into nothing more than useful warm pieces of meat. What a far, far cry is this view of people from the beloved children of God that they all are! Thank God my eyes were finally opened.

Artificial birth control is another aspect of the same tendency. It is about God-designed sex without the God-designed consequences. When one uses ABC, it is only natural to consider a “failure” of ABC (that is, a conception) as a problem, a mistake, something to be corrected. It is certainly no coincidence that abortion became a “right” and exploded in numbers within a few years of the availability of easy and convenient ABC, because they are both about sex without consequences.

 

[setter]

The documentation that convinces me this is true comes from the gospels which I think do count as authoritative Church documentation.

From chapter 5 of Matthews gospel:

“Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.”
From chapter 6

“If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you.
But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions.”
From chapter 7

"Stop judging, that you may not be judged.
For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. "

From chapter 18 (towards the end of the parable of the unforgiving servant)

“His master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to. Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?’ Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart.”

These statements indicate clearly to me that condemnation does not come directly from any particular act of law-breaking. Rather it comes from the failure to practice forgiveness.

Again, this understanding does not mean it is OK to break any law because if I am forgiving than God will forgive me. There are other consequences to avoid besides eternal damnation that make it a good idea to follow God’s laws.

Jim

But the wording of your prior post made God’s judgment of such offenses [of the law] solely contigent on one levying such an offense against another; implying that if one does not extend judgment against another, then we are free from judgment for our own transgresions against the law.

Originally Posted by **trogiah **
Trangressions of the law **only warrant condemnation **under the law if one judges others based on the law.

 

[wcknight]

So IF I am a serial axe murderer, and I never judge others, I get a free pass ???

 

[trogiah]

So IF I am a serial axe murderer, and I never judge others, I get a free pass ???

A free pass to what?

I think it is in a sense a free pass from eternal condemnation - for any crime. But consider that people don’t just become serial axe murderers on a whim. I don’t know any serial murderers personally but it seems like they are either filled with hatred and contempt for the people they kill - in which case they are standing in judgement of others and so they will experience God’s judgement.

Or they are mentally unstable, perhaps serverely abused as children, or in some other way not fully culpable for their actions in which case, even though their actions have carried enormous material consequences, it is not so unthinkable that they might obtain forgiveness. I believe this is in line with Church teaching although I can’t quote the CC.

Even if we don’t have the threat of eternal condemnation hanging over our heads for committing murder. The fact that we would either spend the rest of our life running from the law or in jail still seems like a good enough reason to not become a serial killer.

But consider the scripture from Matthew chapter 5

15 16 "You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ 22 17 But I say to you, whoever is angry 18 with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.

It seems that Jesus is stating that it is not only the act of murder that can lead to God’s judgement, but the feelings of anger and contempt (basically feelings of negative judgement against another person) that lead a person down that same road.

Jim

 

[trogiah]

But the wording of your prior post made God’s judgment of such offenses [of the law] solely contigent on one levying such an offense against another; implying that if one does not extend judgment against another, then we are free from judgment for our own transgresions against the law.

Looking back at my second post I do feel like I muddled my words some. But the main point is as you summarize here. I don’t want to leave the impression that it is my wording that makes God’s judgement what it is. It seems that the wording of the gospel is what indicates it.

Again- There are many reasons to keep the Law other than the avoidance of condemnation. To give a simple example/analogy: Many people where seatbelts because if they don’t they might get “caught” and have to pay a fine. For some that is really the only reason they where seatbelts. The fact is that wearing a seatbelt can save a life and/or prevent serious injury. That is not a bad reason to follow the law.

Refraining from killing will keep us out of prison and from having deadly enemies. Refraining from lying will make us trustworthy in other peoples eyes. Refraining from adultery will keep our lives much more peaceful and less divided than they would be otherwise. God’s laws are meant to give us life in this life, not just to avoid condemnation in the afterlife.

Jim