God’s Foreknowledge and Predestination–And More! [Akin]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholic_Opinion
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Catholic_Opinion

Guest
http://jimmyakin.com/wp-content/uploads/free-will-and-divine-foreknowledge.jpgIn this episode of Catholic Answers Live (March 2, 2017), Jimmy answers the following questions:
  • What’s the difference between God’s foreknowledge of our salvation and being predestined for salvation? Is it possible to desire and seek salvation, but not earn it because you are not predestined?
  • Why is it that the Rite of Blessing of holy water is not done at every Mass before the penitential rite? Would it be allowed for a U.S. priest to celebrate the Ambrosian or the Mozarabic rite in order to give Italian and Spanish Catholics a taste of home?
  • Why aren’t there women priests?
  • My friends asked me to explain what Lent is. I wasn’t sure what to say. How should I have answered them?
  • Is it correct to say we are not only declared righteous, as in a courtroom, but also made righteous by God’s grace?
  • My friends have been praying to have a child for a couple of years. They are beginning to despair. Do you have any advice as far saints to pray for intercessions or ways I can pray with them?
  • How can I explain the Trinity to someone who says it is not biblical and that the verse in Matthew 28 was added by the Catholic Church?
  • I am Evangelical and have been considering converting. As I listen to all these talks on the radio and evaluate, I’m surprised that many on Catholic radio are not priests. Can I really rely on the answers I hear and to*know they are representing the true Catholic position? I want to be sure I have the correct information to base my decision to convert.
  • Do we know how Mary’s name was pronounced in her native tongue?
Resources Mentioned:
Click the link to watch the video on YouTube.

feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/jimmyakin/HPRf?d=yIl2AUoC8zA
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/jimmyakin/HPRf/~4/34aLNfHx60c

More…
 
Hello,
So I recognize God is “outside of time” as part of Catholic thought (is it dogma that God is “outside of time?” I looked through Dave Armstrong’s post and he is quite certain that God “outside of time” is “de fide dogma,” but upon quick review I saw God’s eternality, immutability, unchangingness, and … contain in Conciliar documents, but His existence “outside of time” didn’t seem as well document in Conciliar documents. patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2017/01/god-immutable-outside-time-de-fide-dogma.html ).
Anyway, Jimmy Akin points out that to have foreknowledge implies “knowledge before” and within Catholic thought, God does not experience his knowledge as “knowledge before.” I think the question of “foreknowledge and predestination” concerns the time before our temporal salvation or damnation, not the temporal progression or lack of temporal progression of God (though I see a relation that might be important in the answering of the question).
I am very comfortable with “foreknowledge” being a form of intense knowledge/connection with God. A “knowing” of God (and reciprocal “knowing” of us).
I am not only very comfortable, but actively embrace the idea that predestination is best understood as a corporate determined destiny. The true disciples are the corporate body of folks predestined to God’s salvific embrace (or whatever term you wish to describe those who are saved). The predestination in this sense is not of an individual to heaven, but of a corporate body to heaven. The free will of the individual will determine if one is in this corporate group of “true disciples” or outside this group.

I think Jimmy Akin answered quite well. It is simply impossible to plumb the depths of “the mechanics beyond” his answer in a radio show. I can even agree that it is not of vital importance. That being said, I find aspect of the Dave Armstrong position to be wrong enough to cause me problems (though I really only went to him when searching for God’s relation to time per defined dogma, and that was what he addressed).

I do not see how ABSOLUTE foreknowledge is compatible with “libertarian free will.”
If I inquire of God on 3/4/2017 if I will or will not exceed the speed limit on the freeway on 3/5/2017 and God knows eternally (and on 3/4/2017) that I will not exceed the speed limit on 3/5/2017, do I have the power to do other than what God knows I will do. I say nobody has the power to make something God knows to be false (to make God to be in error / wrong). And yet if we have libertarian free will we must have the power to do other than we actually did (else we did not have libertarian free will). I do not see a way around this. We can throw our hands in the air and say, “God’s ways are higher than our ways,” and we do not understand or we can choose one side or the other.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. It is appropriate for Jimmy Akin to answer as he did. I am not sure if he would or would not pursue more clear positions like Dave Armstrong did were he pushed by inquisitive fellows with volumes of time for answers.
Charity, TOm
 
God bless every readers of the CAF,

QUEESTION
Is it possible to desire and seek salvation, but not earn it because you are not predestined?

A SHORT ANSWER: It is not possible. God’s children/elect desire and seek salvation because they are predestined.

**A LONGER ANSWER

ST. AUGUSTINE ON GRACE AND PREDESTINATION**

De gratia Christi 25, 26:
“For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it.”

De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32:
“It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good. . . . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, PROVIDING MOST EFFECTIVE POWERS TO THE WILL.”

Ep. 154, 5, 16: "What then is the merit of man before grace by which merit he should receive grace? Since only grace makes every good merit of ours, and when God crowns our merits, He crowns nothing else but His own gifts.

Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.

But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.

Similarly, the Council of Orange says that “in every good work, we do not begin.” (#329.2)

In other words, when God commands, He capacitates the hearer to respond.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.

Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

The salvation of God’s children/elect always based on God’s initiative.

The above teachings of the Catholic Church more then enough proof: God’s children/elect desire and seek salvation AFTER they are predestined.

Predestination ALWAYS PRECEDES the desire to seek salvation.

With other words: An elect desire to seek salvation because he/she is an elect.

God bless.

LatinRight
 
God bless every readers of the CAF,

QUESTION
What’s the difference between God’s foreknowledge of our salvation and being predestined for salvation?

**ANSWER **
Without our predestination to heaven and without God’s special grace “The Gift of Final Perseverance,” God would see: We all going to hell.

**Probably Fr Most’s answer better than I can give.

Tuesday, April 2, 2013 Fr William Most
What does the Catholic Church teach on Predestination?**

Fr. Most himself leans toward a school of thought known as Thomism, which he develops in summary as follows:

Predestination is gratuitous: … for even before God considers human merits, He predestines, and because the sole and total cause of predestination is the goodness and love of the Father which moves spontaneously WITHOUT stimulus, merit, or condition. End quote.

Fr. Most’s teachings is in perfect harmony with St. Augustine on Grace and predestination, Council of Orange (#329.2), CCC 2022; etc.

Christ also states in John 15:5 “… Apart from Me you can do nothing.”

We can make our first supernatural decision or we can do supernatural work AFTER we have been predestined/being in Christ!!!

“He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, …having been predestined us to adoption.” (Eph.1:4-5).

With our predestination to heaven, from the point of our baptism, we have irrevocable salvation, protected by God’s special grace “The Gift of Final Perseverance.”

But the two predestinations in Catholic theology make this situation a bit complicated.

One predestination is to Glory for God’s Children/elect.
Every predestined to Glory end up in heaven, they cannot lose their salvation.

The other predestination is: **
Predestination to grace for some of the reprobates **whose names taken out from the Book of Life before the foundation of the world for their vehement rejection of God and His grace.

Because **every reprobate predestined to hell **before the foundation of the world.

So every reprobates who are predestined to grace too and some period of their life become Christians they must lose their salvation and they all must end up in hell.

The “Elect Christians” and the “Reprobate Christians” are two TOTALLY different groups of people.

**One of the most significant differences is: **
The contents of the memory and the will of the “Elect Christians” and the “Reprobate Christians” are FUNDAMENTALLY and TOTALLY different.

THE CONTENTS OF THE MEMORY AND THE WILL OF THE “ELECT CHRISTIANS”
  1. God predestined the elect to heaven.
    God also put into the memory and the will of the elect the desire to go to heaven.
  2. God has given His elect the gift of everlasting life.
    God also put into the memory and the will of the elect the desire to have everlasting life.
  3. God has given His elect His gift of final perseverance.
    God also put into the memory and the will of the elect the desire to persevere to the end of life.
THE CONTENTS OF THE MEMORY AND THE WILL OF THE “REPROBATE-CHRISTIANS”

(Pease keep in mind, the reprobates are reprobates because of their vehement rejection of God and His grace and their names taken out from the Book of Life and they all predestined to hell before the foundation of the world.)

Matt.7:6 “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.”

Jesus addresses the above insulting labels to anyone inhospitable to the Gospel. – Believe me, for their vehement rejection of God and His grace, – seems to me the reprobates are inhospitable to the Gospel.
  1. God did not predestine the “Reprobate-Christians” to heaven.
    God did not put into the memory and the will of the “Reprobate-Christians” the desire to go to heaven.
  2. God did not give the “Reprobate- Christians” the gift of everlasting life.
    God did not put into the memory and the will of the “Reprobate-Christians” the desire to have everlasting life. – How could God give the “Reprobate-Christians” His gift of everlasting life when God predestined all of them to hell before the foundation of the world?
  3. God did not give the “Reprobate-Christians” His gift of final perseverance.
    God did not put into the memory and the will of the “Reprobate-Christians” the desire to persevere to the end of life.
Continue
 
Continuation

SUMMARY OF THE CONTENTS OF THE MEMORY AND THE WILL OF THE ELECT AND THE “REPROBATE-CHRISTIANS”

The memory and the will of the Elect:
  1. The memory and the will contain the desire to go to heaven.
  2. The memory and the will contain the desire to have everlasting life.
  3. The memory and the will contain the desire to persevere to the end of life.
The memory and the will of the “Reprobate-Christians:”
  1. The memory and the will is not contains the desire to go to heaven.
  2. The memory and the will is not contains the desire to have everlasting life.
  3. The memory and the will is not contains the desire to persevere to the end of life.
SUMMARY

a. The memory and the will of the elect contain the desire to go to heaven, to have everlasting life and to persevere to the end of life.

b. The memory and the will of the “Reprobate-Christians” not contain the desire to go to heaven, or to have everlasting life, or to persevere to the end of life.

As we see above, the contents of the memory and the will of the “Elect Christians” and the “Reprobate Christians” are FUNDAMENTALLY and ABSOLUTELY different.

**In 2 Cor.13:5-6 God has given us a COMMAND and we MUST obey it! **

2 Cor.13:5-6; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

Quote: “Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith.

TEST YOURSELVES.

Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? – unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

I hope YOU WILL FIND OUT that we have not failed. End quote.

To know the test result, we only need to know the contents of our memory and will and the test is done, we obeyed God’s command.

Seems to me God really cares for us, including our faith, our peace and our emotional health.

Feeling uncertainty or worry about our destiny (heaven or hell) can paralyze a person and the great commission of Matt.28:19-20 become the great omission.

**CATHOLIC ANSWERS MAGAZINE - September/October 2014

IN THIS ISSUE:

WHY CATHOLICS DON’T EVANGELIZE by Hector Molina – Catholics have been given the gift of the truth—so why are we reluctant to share it with others? Here’s why, and how to overcome it.**

CAM has an excellent article Why Catholics Don’t Evangelize.

The magazine had **a joke on the cover **which said,

Q: “What do you get if you cross a Catholic with a Jehovah’s Witness?”

A: “Someone who knocks on your door and says nothing.”

Catholics have been given the gift of the truth—so why are we reluctant to share it with others? Here’s why, and how to overcome it.

Quote: **It’s no secret that Catholics aren’t renowned for their evangelistic prowess or missionary zeal. **

This is despite the fact that the last several pontiffs, including Pope Francis, have written and spoken extensively on the subject, which has become a renewed priority for the Church.

In Matthew 28:19, our Lord enjoined the apostles, “[G]o therefore and make disciples of all nations.”

In Mark 16:15, Jesus commands them, “[G]o into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation.”

This is what is referred to as the Great Commission.

Sadly, for many Catholics, the Great Commission has become the Great Omission.

**Why is this so? Why don’t Catholics as a whole evangelize? **

FEAR

If you were to survey a group of Catholics about what holds them back from sharing the Faith, the No. 1 response you would get is “Fear.”

FEAR PARALYZES many believers from living out their faith and sharing it with others.

There is a fundamental principle at work here, one summarized by the old Latin axiom Nemo dat quod non habet (“No one gives WHAT HE DOES NOT HAVE”).

One cannot share Christ if one has not FIRST ENCOUNTERED CHRIST, or effectively share the gospel without experiencing its power in his own life. End quote.

God bless.

LatinRight
 
LatinRight said:
Continuation

SUMMARY OF THE CONTENTS OF THE MEMORY AND THE WILL OF THE ELECT AND THE “REPROBATE-CHRISTIANS”

The memory and the will of the Elect:
  1. The memory and the will contain the desire to go to heaven.
  2. The memory and the will contain the desire to have everlasting life.
  3. The memory and the will contain the desire to persevere to the end of life.
The memory and the will of the “Reprobate-Christians:”
  1. The memory and the will is not contains the desire to go to heaven.
  2. The memory and the will is not contains the desire to have everlasting life.
  3. The memory and the will is not contains the desire to persevere to the end of life.
SUMMARY

a. The memory and the will of the elect contain the desire to go to heaven, to have everlasting life and to persevere to the end of life.

b. The memory and the will of the “Reprobate-Christians” not contain the desire to go to heaven, or to have everlasting life, or to persevere to the end of life.

As we see above, the contents of the memory and the will of the “Elect Christians” and the “Reprobate Christians” are FUNDAMENTALLY and ABSOLUTELY different.

**In 2 Cor.13:5-6 God has given us a COMMAND and we MUST obey it! **

2 Cor.13:5-6; (Ignatius Catholic Study Bible)

Quote: “Examine yourselves, to see whether you are holding to your faith.

TEST YOURSELVES.

Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? – unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

I hope YOU WILL FIND OUT that we have not failed. End quote.

To know the test result, we only need to know the contents of our memory and will and the test is done, we obeyed God’s command.

Seems to me God really cares for us, including our faith, our peace and our emotional health.

Feeling uncertainty or worry about our destiny (heaven or hell) can paralyze a person and the great commission of Matt.28:19-20 become the great omission.

**CATHOLIC ANSWERS MAGAZINE - September/October 2014

IN THIS ISSUE:

WHY CATHOLICS DON’T EVANGELIZE by Hector Molina – Catholics have been given the gift of the truth—so why are we reluctant to share it with others? Here’s why, and how to overcome it.**

CAM has an excellent article Why Catholics Don’t Evangelize.

The magazine had **a joke on the cover **which said,

Q: “What do you get if you cross a Catholic with a Jehovah’s Witness?”

A: “Someone who knocks on your door and says nothing.”

Catholics have been given the gift of the truth—so why are we reluctant to share it with others? Here’s why, and how to overcome it.

Quote: **It’s no secret that Catholics aren’t renowned for their evangelistic prowess or missionary zeal. **

This is despite the fact that the last several pontiffs, including Pope Francis, have written and spoken extensively on the subject, which has become a renewed priority for the Church.

In Matthew 28:19, our Lord enjoined the apostles, “[G]o therefore and make disciples of all nations.”

In Mark 16:15, Jesus commands them, “[G]o into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation.”

This is what is referred to as the Great Commission.

Sadly, for Catholics, the Great Commission has become the Great Omission.

**Why is this so? Why don’t Catholics as a whole evangelize? **

FEAR

If you were to survey a group of Catholics about what holds them back from sharing the Faith, the No. 1 response you would get is “Fear.”

FEAR PARALYZES many believers from living out their faith and sharing it with others.

There is a fundamental principle at work here, one summarized by the old Latin axiom Nemo dat quod non habet (“No one gives WHAT HE DOES NOT HAVE”).

One cannot share Christ if one has not FIRST ENCOUNTERED CHRIST, or effectively share the gospel without experiencing its power in his own life. End quote.

God bless.

LatinRight
Click to expand...
 
God bless every readers of the CAF,

QUESTION
Is it correct to say we are not only declared righteous, as in a courtroom,
but also made righteous by God’s grace?

A SHORT ANSWER: Yes it is correct to say.

**A LONGER ANSWER

BAPTISM OF GOD’S ELECT**

**To understand baptism first we have to understand our fallen spiritual position.

OUR FALLEN SPIRITUAL POSITION**

a. We are under God’s CONDEMNATION. – Rom.5:18a; John 3:18b.

b. We are in the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION. – Rom.8:19-21.

c. We are residents of the KINGDOM OF SATAN. – Luke 4:5-7.

d. We are SPIRITUALLY DEAD in sins. – Eph.2:1b; Col.2:13a.

e. We “do NOT accept anything from the Spirit of God: we see it all as nonsense; it is BEYOND our UNDERSTANDING because it CAN ONLY be understood by the Spirit of God.” – 1 Cor.2:14 Emphasize mine.

To be able to receive anything from the Spirit of God, FIRST we need new spiritual life.
This is sometimes called “Born Again.”

Col.2:13; Explains:
“And you, BEING DEAD in your trespasses … He has made you alive, … having forgiven you all trespasses.” – This spiritual resurrection from spiritual death/born again and forgiveness of sins/justification, takes place at baptism.

In our baptism, there is God’s part to do and our part to do.

God’s part to do in our baptism ALWAYS PRECEDES our water baptism.

This is the point, sometimes confusion comes in to understand baptism.

**GOD’S PART TO DO IN OUR BAPTISM / IN REALITY THIS IS OUR INITIAL JUSTIFICATION

GOD’S WORK IN OUR BAPTISM IN FINE DETAILS**

The **sequence of events **of our baptism.
  1. GOD SANCTIFIED us. – At our sanctification God has completely washed us clean, made us holy (our spirit + soul). – 1 Cor.6:11; 1 Pet.2:9; etc.
We may call it our first purgatory as God has completely washed us clean.

It was an instant event, God washed us clean by OUR RECREATION [old man died + all his sins forgiven, both past away/neither of them exists any longer, (Christ paid the price on the cross for the sins of the whole world)]. = God RECREATED us, we are new creations (born again). – Rom.6:3-9; 2 Cor.5:17; etc.
  1. God delivered us from the power of darkness and taken us (our spirit + soul) up to heaven, – Col. 1:13; Eph.2:6.
  2. In heaven God baptized us into the body of Christ, – 1 Cor.12:13, 27.
  3. God JUSTIFIED us. – At our justification God DECLARED us SONS of God. – Rom.3:24; Rom.8:15.
  4. God RE-CREATED US / BORN AGAIN. – At our re-creation God MADE us SONS of God by given us a new heart, given us a new spirit and God put His Spirit into us. – Ez.36:26-27; 2 Cor.5:17; 1 Cor.3:16; 1 Cor.6:19.
  5. God made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, –Eph.2:6.
“AUGUSTINE’S CONTRIBUTION TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Quote: We are inserted into the Body of Christ by our baptism and become members united to the Head, so that while our feet may be on earth we are already in heaven.” End quote.

The above quote taken from a public letter of Paul Maloney OSA Written September 19th 2012

Because it is a mystery we may not yet fully understand the way it is possible that at the same time our (spirit + soul) is in heaven and on the earth as well.

Continue
 
Continuation

All of the above works of God is an instant event, we don’t even realize it and in this work for three reasons we cannot even co-operated with the grace of God.

First reason: A spiritually dead accepts nothing from the Spirit of God. – This is our spiritual resurrection from spiritual death.

Second reason: Our initial justification and born again in our baptism is an instant event.

Third reason: The above work of God takes us to the state of grace.
Until we are in the state of grace we cannot make supernatural decisions or do supernatural merit.

Meaning: Man does nothing and could do nothing, to enter the state of (initial) justification – **Because spiritually dead at the beginning **and the end initially justified, born again and in the state of grace, irrevocably saved, the whole process is an instant event.

In the sequence of the events, first God does His part in our Baptism, as the results; we are recreated, we are spiritually alive/born again, initially justified, and we are in the state of grace, we have irrevocable salvation, protected by God’s special grace “The Gift of Final Perseverance.”

This is the point when God gives us His gift of faith and we are able to positively respond to it. – Because we are spiritually alive, initially justified, irrevocably saved, we are in the state of grace.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

Christ also states in John 15:5 “… Apart from Me you can do nothing.”

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man.

Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”

John 6:44; **“No one can come to Me **unless the Father who sent Me DRAWS him.”

In other words, when God commands, He capacitates the hearer to respond.

Yet the ability to respond is also His gift.

As we see above the necessity of God’s works in our baptism** is absolute.**

Apart from God first does His part in our baptism we are spiritually dead and we “do NOT accept anything from the Spirit of God.” – 1 Cor.2:14; John 15:5; Denzinger 1576, 1582; etc.

It is solely God’s work and always PRECEDES our water baptism.

This is the point, sometimes confusion comes in, because at this point we are born again, initially justified, we are in the state of grace, we have irrevocable salvation, protected by God’s special grace “The Gift of Final Perseverance.” and we are not yet water baptized.

Sometimes it is a **great distance **between God does his part in our baptism and we do our part in our water baptism.

If some reason we are not able to do our part of the baptism this doesn’t stop God to do His part of our baptism which gives us initial justification, spiritual resurrection/born again and puts us into the state of grace, we have irrevocable salvation, protected by God’s special grace “The Gift of Final Perseverance.” and if we die enables us to go to heaven.

God’s part to do in our baptism, always PRECEDES our water baptism.

God bless.

LatinRight.
 
TOmNossor said:
Hello,
Anyway, Jimmy Akin points out that to have foreknowledge implies “knowledge before” and within Catholic thought, God does not experience his knowledge as “knowledge before.” I think the question of “foreknowledge and predestination” concerns the time before our temporal salvation or damnation, not the temporal progression or lack of temporal progression of God (though I see a relation that might be important in the answering of the question).
I am very comfortable with “foreknowledge” being a form of intense knowledge/connection with God. A “knowing” of God (and reciprocal “knowing” of us).
I am not only very comfortable, but actively embrace the idea that predestination is best understood as a corporate determined destiny. The true disciples are the corporate body of folks predestined to God’s salvific embrace (or whatever term you wish to describe those who are saved). The predestination in this sense is not of an individual to heaven, but of a corporate body to heaven. The free will of the individual will determine if one is in this corporate group of “true disciples” or outside this group.

I do not see how ABSOLUTE foreknowledge is compatible with “libertarian free will.”
If I inquire of God on 3/4/2017 if I will or will not exceed the speed limit on the freeway on 3/5/2017 and God knows eternally (and on 3/4/2017) that I will not exceed the speed limit on 3/5/2017, do I have the power to do other than what God knows I will do. I say nobody has the power to make something God knows to be false (to make God to be in error / wrong). And yet if we have libertarian free will we must have the power to do other than we actually did (else we did not have libertarian free will). I do not see a way around this. We can throw our hands in the air and say, “God’s ways are higher than our ways,” and we do not understand or we can choose one side or the other.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. It is appropriate for Jimmy Akin to answer as he did. I am not sure if he would or would not pursue more clear positions like Dave Armstrong did were he pushed by inquisitive fellows with volumes of time for answers.
Charity, TOm
Click to expand...
God bless TOmNossor and every readers of the CAF.

The following teachings of the Catholic Church might be helpful.

**The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a *DE FIDE *Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect**

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful

figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which

contains the names of ALL THE ELECT and admits NEITHER ADDITIONS NO ERASURES.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,

follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the

predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be

UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to

CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of

certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience. End quote. Emphasis added.

BOOK OF LIFE

God has completed the Book of Life before the foundation of the world by taking out the names of the reprobates from the Book of Life for their vehement rejection of God and His grace and as the results they all end up in hell.

From the completion, the Book of life admits NEITHER ADDITIONS no ERASURES.

Some people can be confused about the Book of Life, because God has completed the Book of Life in His “chronological order” before the foundation of the world, but in the Bible concerning the events in the Book of Life, for our understanding, written in our chronological order, like the cancellation from the Book of Life done at our present time, this is not the case.

This fact can cause confusion, because someone may wrongly conclude; God’s child/elect can lose salvation, which is a theological impossibility.

ABOUT FREE WILL

There is NO WAY that God’s ABSOLUTE foreknowledge stops you to do anything or make you to do anything.

Foreknowledge is NOT Predestination.

Some people wrongly believe:
God predestined the elect by using His foreknowledge and to see who are those who made it to heaven and who are those who made it to hell and God made His predestination accordingly.

This is not so because:
Without our predestination to heaven and without God’s special grace The “Gift of Final Perseverance,” God would see: We all going to hell.

It is common knowledge, God’s will is that everyone saved but not everyone wants to be saved.

God bless.

LatinRight
 
God bless every readers of the CAF,

QUESTION
My friends have been praying to have a child for a couple of years.
They are beginning to despair.
Do you have any advice as far saints to pray for intercessions or ways I can pray with them?

ANSWER ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURE

Matt.6:7; “When you pray, do not use vain repetitions …”

John 16:23-24; “… Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.
Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.”

SUMMARY

When we pray: We shouldn’t use vain repetitions, our prayers should come from our hearts.

Our prayers according to the Scriptures, should be addressed to the Father and ask from the Father what we asking for** in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.**

**THERE IS ANOTHER PRAYER IN THE SCRIPTURE

God gives His children His spiritual gift of praying in tongues.**

Rom.8:26-27; “In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words.
And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.”

1 Cor.14:2; “For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God.
Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.”

1 Cor. 14:4a; “He who speaks in tongue edifies himself, …”

1 Cor.14:5a; “I wish you all speak with tongues, …”

1 Cor.14:18; “I thank my God I speak with tongs more then you all.”

God’s gift of tong is very common among Charismatic Catholics and Evangelical Christians.

When we pray in tongues, we are speaking directly to God.

Praying in tongues in reality is our co-operation with the Holy Spirit who lives in us. – 1 Cor.6:19.

We do the speaking but the Holy Spirit controls our tongues, so this prayer always in accordance with the will of God.

I believe: Prayer in tongues is the highest level of prayer because the Holy Spirit praying through us and ALWAYS in line with the will of God.

There is another benefit as well: – “He who speaks in tongue edifies himself, …”

When I didn’t have God’s gift of praying in tongues, I couldn’t understand how it is possible that someone edify himself while praying in tongues when couldn’t understand even one word of it.

After when I received God’s gift of praying in tongs, I found out very fast because while I prayed in tongues the teachings of the Holy Spirit via my spirit came into my heart and mind.

**At this time I understand: **1 Cor. 14:4a; “He who speaks in tongue edifies himself, …”

So, I’m not surprise the reason St. Paul wish: 1 Cor.14:5a; “I wish you all speak with tongues, …”

I believe: If any Christian praying in faith and asking from God the gift of tongue in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, will receive this gift from God.

I have to confess, I have prayed for God’s gift of tongues in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (not to have this gift as a trophy) but for able to pray in the most effective way.

God bless,

LatinRight
 
TOmNossor said:
I do not see how ABSOLUTE foreknowledge is compatible with “libertarian free will.”
If I inquire of God on 3/4/2017 if I will or will not exceed the speed limit on the freeway on 3/5/2017 and God knows eternally (and on 3/4/2017) that I will not exceed the speed limit on 3/5/2017, do I have the power to do other than what God knows I will do. I say nobody has the power to make something God knows to be false (to make God to be in error / wrong). And yet if we have libertarian free will we must have the power to do other than we actually did (else we did not have libertarian free will). I do not see a way around this. We can throw our hands in the air and say, “God’s ways are higher than our ways,” and we do not understand or we can choose one side or the other.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. It is appropriate for Jimmy Akin to answer as he did. I am not sure if he would or would not pursue more clear positions like Dave Armstrong did were he pushed by inquisitive fellows with volumes of time for answers.
Charity, TOm
Click to expand...
Tom,

I am not familiar with Dave Armstrong so not sure exactly what his position is, maybe you could post a link.

Anyway, what you said here kind of got me thinking. Jimmy was speaking of God’s foreknowledge coming from the point of view of being outside of time, therefore all moments of time are simultaneous for God. Taking this into account I don’t see how this affects your free will. According to your theory if God tells you that you will exceed the speed limit this will take away “the power to do other than what God knows I will do.” However, isn’t this knowledge, that you have now obtained, just one more bit of information that you will have to comprehend to make your free will decision? And since God sees all points of time simultaneously doesn’t the answer he gives you already take into account how you will freely respond to this knowledge? Also the fact that you believe “I say nobody has the power to make something God knows to be false (to make God to be in error / wrong).” This will also, plays a part in your free will decision making process, won’t it?

One final question, how do you know God’s answer wouldn’t instead be "my dear Son Tom, I can not tell you because you need to freely choose for yourself?

God answers all prayers, sometimes that answer is NO.

God Bless
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top