God, 100Billion Galaxys and our tiny little earth?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Aaron780
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
As C.S.Lewis points out in discussing this same point, if size determines the relative value of something, as in our small planet vs the universe, then it follows that tall people are more valuable than short people. And we do act this way, in that we abort tiny people, which we wouldn’t do if they were six feet tall and able to communicate with us.
But most people would say that size does not determine value.
Perhaps OP was not speaking of value in terms of size.

He maybe saying that if there a a 100 billion earth-like planets, then we are 1 in a 100 billion and possibly of no more importance and significance than the other 99,999,999,999 planets.
 
Perhaps OP was not speaking of value in terms of size.

He maybe saying that if there a a 100 billion earth-like planets, then we are 1 in a 100 billion and possibly of no more importance and significance than the other 99,999,999,999 planets.
Most of the people on earth do not know me personally. I am loved and valued by those I love and value, including my Maker, and that is enough for me. The fact that I am but one of billions of people, and that my planet is but one of billions, does not diminish my significance in the grand scheme, nor does it exaggerate my significance. I was created and have consciousness and free will, and that means I am important to my Lord, and that my thoughts and actions have meaning.
 
Most of the people on earth do not know me personally. I am loved and valued by those I love and value, including my Maker, and that is enough for me. The fact that I am but one of billions of people, and that my planet is but one of billions, does not diminish my significance in the grand scheme, nor does it exaggerate my significance. I was created and have consciousness and free will, and that means I am important to my Lord, and that my thoughts and actions have meaning.
Fair enough, as long as you don’t believe you are more important or of more significance than me and any other human being.
 
The more the merrier, God is infinite and has no lack of love for us ALL no matter how many “all” entails. It is TV and movie horror stories that are likely to instill fear of an alien race. Christianity will remain a beacon of hope as it always is among the doom and gloom reactionaries.
 
The truth is that they do not wish to confront the obvious - that life outside this planet is almost a certainty.
What is your basis of your “truth” and “obvious” about the Church? Did you speak or communicate with the relevant Church personnel on this topic? What did they say to you?

Your statement that life outside this planet is almost a certainty, is it a fact? I don’t see any evidence of life outside this planet so far and I didn’t see you quote any evidence of it in your post. I am not saying it is not possible, all I am asking for is the evidence of what you stated. None of the currently available information about existence of life in other planets is
a) true (correct answer: false)
b) obvious or (correct answer: not a single iota of evidence)
c) almost a certainty (correct answer: see correct answer b)

The rest of your post is pretty much your own conjecture isn’t it? For example, “other planets may or may not have their own Christ”. Openmind77, why waste your mental energies on such romantic sci-fi whatifs thoughts which almost have no value add to the state of your soul? Christ came to Earth with a simple message: Love God and your neighbour. Why busy your mind with notions of what other possible messages he conceivably could bring to other potential(make belief) worlds?

Yes you are right, the Church does not waste too much time on idle speculation. She is too busy trying to save souls.

Your concept of God ie “God must be a busy man and Heaven and Hell must be a massive place etc” put God into a very neat little box is fortunately not a Christian viewpoint. Our God in one word is ALMIGHTY. He made everything. He is outside of time and space and numbers. Words like busy, massive etc are totally not applicable to this Supreme Being.
 
What is your basis of your “truth” and “obvious” about the Church? Did you speak or communicate with the relevant Church personnel on this topic? What did they say to you?

Your statement that life outside this planet is almost a certainty, is it a fact? I don’t see any evidence of life outside this planet so far and I didn’t see you quote any evidence of it in your post. I am not saying it is not possible, all I am asking for is the evidence of what you stated. None of the currently available information about existence of life in other planets is
a) true (correct answer: false)
b) obvious or (correct answer: not a single iota of evidence)
c) almost a certainty (correct answer: see correct answer b)

The rest of your post is pretty much your own conjecture isn’t it? For example, “other planets may or may not have their own Christ”. Openmind77, why waste your mental energies on such romantic sci-fi whatifs thoughts which almost have no value add to the state of your soul? Christ came to Earth with a simple message: Love God and your neighbour. Why busy your mind with notions of what other possible messages he conceivably could bring to other potential(make belief) worlds?

Yes you are right, the Church does not waste too much time on idle speculation. She is too busy trying to save souls.

Your concept of God ie “God must be a busy man and Heaven and Hell must be a massive place etc” put God into a very neat little box is fortunately not a Christian viewpoint. Our God in one word is ALMIGHTY. He made everything. He is outside of time and space and numbers. Words like busy, massive etc are totally not applicable to this Supreme Being.
Actually you are right. The Church is examining this issue (apparently they even have a observatory watching for possible alien life), but they have not declared their position in public. Perhaps the new Pope will change that.

It is true that there is no evidence of alien life. But just the statistics are overwhelming… With billions of stars and even more planets, the probability that we are the only intelligent beings, as one scientist put it, would be a miracle.

Why should we speculate on this? Actually I don’t spend hours thinking about it, but it is important enough that we should consider it, because it could change our view of everything.

Suppose some advanced aliens land on earth and you tell them Jesus is Lord and he died for your sins - what do you suppose their reaction would be? If you visited some tribe in Borneo (or similar place) and they offered you their religion, what would your reaction be? The Church as well as the rest of us need to think about this, otherwise the shock of meeting advanced aliens who do not buy into our beliefs maybe too much for most people,
 
Actually you are right. The Church is examining this issue (apparently they even have a observatory watching for possible alien life), but they have not declared their position in public. Perhaps the new Pope will change that.
Our new pope will not make any public definitive statements about the possibility of sentient life on other planets because it is not a matter of faith or morals. He may have personal opinions about it, as may any Catholic, but it is not a matter of concern for the Church since it is not part of divine revelation.
It is true that there is no evidence of alien life. But just the statistics are overwhelming… With billions of stars and even more planets, the probability that we are the only intelligent beings, as one scientist put it, would be a miracle.
And frankly, this is simply speculation not fact. All the factors that came into play to make our planet a place where life could flourish may be rarer than we think. Until we actually go to another planet with life on it, we cannot possibly know for certain.
Why should we speculate on this? Actually I don’t spend hours thinking about it, but it is important enough that we should consider it, because it could change our view of everything.
What would have to change? Truth is truth. No Catholic has any reason to think it would change who Christ is or who we are. None whatsoever. 🙂
Suppose some advanced aliens land on earth and you tell them Jesus is Lord and he died for your sins - what do you suppose their reaction would be? If you visited some tribe in Borneo (or similar place) and they offered you their religion, what would your reaction be? The Church as well as the rest of us need to think about this, otherwise the shock of meeting advanced aliens who do not buy into our beliefs maybe too much for most people,
If what they had to tell us was truly part of divine revelation and the truth, then we should accept it because it would be true–not because it came from the mouth of an alien vs. one of us.
 
God isn’t subject to size, number, distance – they all flow from Him.
Code:
Speaking in terms of pure relativism, the largest body or group can be no more significant or insignificant than the smallest or least. A good friend who studies both astronomy and contemporary physics finds them unified in his faith in the God who attends to the tiniest detail of the least known. 

Also, it's human beings in collaboration with others who've made the discoveries about the number of galaxies and the size of the universe -- even a set of limited minds here on earth can conceptualize the cosmos, even if not every detail in the cosmos. Our minds are receptive to immensity because the intellect is made to receive the beatific vision of the infinite God who made it all.
 
I totally am a nonbeliever in alien “visitations.”

The same scale of the cosmos that would seem to make aliens likely, also makes them “visiting” our world within any given generation vanishingly unlikely.

And why would the statements of an alien fall into general revelation? The message of the Church is for human life, not ET, if any.

ICXC NIKA
 
I totally am a nonbeliever in alien “visitations.”

The same scale of the cosmos that would seem to make aliens likely, also makes them “visiting” our world within any given generation vanishingly unlikely.

And why would the statements of an alien fall into general revelation? The message of the Church is for human life, not ET, if any.

ICXC NIKA
I certainly agree with what you wrote about the size of the universe imposing limits on traveling between star systems. It would be quite daunting to do so–the energy required would be astronomical besides traveling at light speed too dangerous for flesh and bone life forms.

I too would not expect an alien from another planet to be better versed in general revelation than the Church. However, C. S. Lewis addressed this dilemma in his space trilogy in which one civilization had something of an OT understanding of who God is, with the main character explaining Christian theology to them. And another civilization at the Eden stage with the main character helping them resist temptation by battling a human protagonist possessed by a demon. Anyway, my point on this was that the truth is truth no matter who speaks it because God is truth and so there can be no theological surprises/new “truths” coming from anyone who knows the truth be he a human being or an alien.
 
This has got me thinking. :hmmm: How would this affect the fine tuning argument that some Christians use for evidence of God? After all, if the universe is that large, it would seem inevitable that a planet would exist that can support life.🤷
 
This has got me thinking. :hmmm: How would this affect the fine tuning argument that some Christians use for evidence of God? After all, if the universe is that large, it would seem inevitable that a planet would exist that can support life.🤷
The problem is two-fold. Firstly there is no evidence for life anywhere else–not even within our own solar system. And secondly, there’s the “Goldielocks principle” that states a planet must be in the right place in its orbit around its sun, its sun must the right kind, and every other condition necessary for life has to be present or it’s no go. We have no idea how many, if any, other planets in other solar systems meet all the criteria necessary for sustaining life. On top of all this, it is up to God whether or not he wishes a planet to have life, especially sentient life. For we are not merely a product of evolution, but a special creation, made in the image and likeness of God.
 
Thanks guys their are some really good answers here, God truly is phenomenal to create something so unbelievably massive, I think its something humans no matter how long we survive for will never understand, to think of our universe then to think that there could be even more of them is mind blowing, basically there is no end, space could go on for eternity, and that’s what I cant get my head around, you see for me everything must have a beginning and an end, but the universe or many universes could go on forever and ever, They say our universe could be just a bubble surrounded by an endless amount of other universes which is unbelievable, and what about the multiverse theory where they say their could be many different versions of us in different dimensions, its just all too much for our brains to comprehend, I just don’t understand atheists can think there is no God when their is so much going on here, its all way, way too complex to think everything is just here, a fluke, with nothing behind it driving all this, I think space, the universe or whatever it is, is a dimension, because it doesn’t end, its not a place so to speak, and Heaven is in another dimension, that’s probably the only way I can describe it really.

Anyway I reckon I’m just thinking too much, its just ever since I was young I’ve always been so keen to know what’s going on here and where are we? I guess I and all of us wont find out all the answers until we die, then God will show us his unbelievable power and what its all about, I think at the end of the day Its God that makes me feel so small and not the universe. Theirs no words available to describe how powerful and beautiful God truly is…
 
Reminds me of the Bible verse in Psalms: Who is man, that thou art mindfull of him?
 
“For as long as there been humans we have searched for our place in the cosmos. Where are we? Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a hum-drum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people. This perspective is a courageous continuation of our penchant for constructing and testing mental models of the skies; the Sun as a red-hot stone, the stars as a celestial flame, the Galaxy as the backbone of night.
…If we long for our planet to be important, there is something we can do about it. We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers.”
  • Carl Sagan
Reportedly Carl Sagan stated his belief in God before he died.
 
Reportedly Carl Sagan stated his belief in God before he died.
He died stating clearly that he didn’t believe in God as we think of him. Rather, he may have believed in a Higher Intelligence who may have started the process that created the cosmos, but that’s as far as Sagan would go. But even that’s something, yes? For all we know Our Lord might be showing Sagan things he would never have dreamed possible when he was on earth. Sagan did believe in a savior, but for him it would be an extraterrestrial with greater scientific knowledge that humanity. Now that really takes faith considering we have zero evidence for other life in the universe, let alone intelligent life. So Sagan was a “man of faith” but not in Christ, whom he thought a “good man” but not the Son of God. He’s no doubt been reeducated on that matter, dear man, by the Lord of Mercy. Let us pray for his soul–and for all our souls. :crossrc:
 
Let’s pray he was moving in the right direction and that was enough, plus some prayer to get him through purgatory.
 
He died stating clearly that he didn’t believe in God as we think of him. Rather, he may have believed in a Higher Intelligence who may have started the process that created the cosmos, but that’s as far as Sagan would go. But even that’s something, yes? For all we know Our Lord might be showing Sagan things he would never have dreamed possible when he was on earth. Sagan did believe in a savior, but for him it would be an extraterrestrial with greater scientific knowledge that humanity.
It was difficult to tell whether he was more critical of God or of people who attributed everything to Him.

That said, one wouldn’t expect Sagan to come up with the philosophy that our own existence stemmed from the need for the Creator to have someone other than Him to know and appreciate Him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top