God according to catholics

[ahmadhassan]

Your perplexity is understandable, but Christians have got to know that in Islam we have a deadly enemy. These people want to see us subjugated, converted or dead. It has got nothing to do with understanding or tolerance or accommodation. It is war, to the finish. I am sorry that I must describe it in such stark terms, but that is what it comes down to. There is no accommodation for us in countries dominated by moslems. In some moslem countries, the penalty for renouncing Islam is DEATH. In Saudi Arabia, any bibles or symbols of Christianity are confiscated and criminal penalties are possible. The UK let too many moslems into their country and now, there are serious threats to their internal security and calls for imposition of Sharia law by extremist moslems. They do not yet have the numbers to impose their will, but time will tell. The West needs to become aware of the threat to our existence posed by radicalized Islam. This war is not of our choosing.

have you ever or did any of christians here tried to know islam from islamic source? i dont think you did ,you (christians) always listen to media that brainwash you about islam ,i can give proofs that we treated nonmuslims good but will you accept it or not? with case of saudi arabia i can justify it ,i can prove that you christians have been subjected to severe brainwashing about islam

 

[ahmadhassan]

Wow this whole thing has gotten super intense. It seems to me that life should be lived according to the bible(that is my personal belief) but I also think that in reading other religions books such as the Qur’an you are only allowing your mind to expand. You may not believe it but you read it to learn, to grow. I want to be a good catholic but I believe that every person is intitled to their own opinion and faith. If this were an Islam forum would they be doing the same as us? Maybe, I don’t know. All I know is that by learning the ways of others sometimes you understand them better. You don’t have to agree, you just have to respect. Personally I myself struggle sometimes with the Trinity but over time I think it’s something I have come to begin to understand. I may not have proof to offer you but it’s so hard to explain what’s in your head and in your thoughts to others. You believe what you believe and in the end no one can take that away from you. This is both directed towards the muslims and the catholics. Sorry this really doesn’t explain anything but to me religion is a very personal thing and I believe it’s a little different for everyone.But in attacking one another and telling each other we’re wrong we’re justhaving a senseless argument that will never be solved.

i agree largely with you thats why i read much about other religions even i`m just 21 years old not so old eh?

 

[hosemonkey]

i agree largely with you thats why i read much about other religions even i`m just 21 years old not so old eh?

Not so old and not so smart either. How do you justify the murderous attack on my country on SEPTEMBER 11, 2001? Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi who is a follower of Wahabi Islam and was the force behind this attack. Do you agree with Osama Bin Laden? Islamic sources provide the proofs of moslem hostility toward other religions. The very koran condemns itself.

 

[chet]

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: “God will be King over all the world – on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One” (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Not bad Jesus fulfilled all but 4 on his first coming. how many did Mohammad fulfill so far?

 

[chet]

God replied, “I am who am.” Then he added, “This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you.” God spoke further to Moses, "Thus shall you say to the Israelites: The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. "This is my name forever; this is my title for all generations.

Ahmad Is this the God you worship or some other God.If you reject any part of God you Reject God period.Again God says to Moses that he is,“The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob.” Not Ishmael,nor his sons!

Originally Posted by chet View Post
Mary was Joseph’s wife,but she remained a virgin.Since Joseph was married to Mary Jesus was their son.

thats so bad when someone be ignorant ,if christ isnt from seed of joseph then how he is his father?

Ahmad I have someone close to me who lived with his biological father until he was about ten years old.After his mother and father divorced his mother remarried.Some time later the man she married adopted him as his own son and even gave him his last name:And he calls this man Pops,not his biological father.

 

[chet]

Philippians 2:5-7

Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Psalm 130:7-8

O Israel, hope in the LORD; For with the LORD there is loving kindness, And with Him is abundant redemption. And He will redeem Israel From all his iniquities.

Isaiah 53:5

But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.

Isaiah 53:11

As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.

.Luke 22:44

And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.

 

[paarsurrey]

but Christians have got to know that in Islam we have a deadly enemy. These people want to see us subjugated, converted or dead. It has got nothing to do with understanding or tolerance or accommodation. It is war, to the finish.

Hi
It sounds like an extremist view. I don’t agree with you. I think there is much room for sincere dialogue between Christians and Muslims. Let us all break the ice.
I would like to quote some verses from Quran: 3:65
65. Say, ‘O People of the Book! come to a word equal between us and you – that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no parners with Him and that some of us take not others for Lords beside Allah.’
Let it be a good start.
Thanks

Muhammad had a marvelous record of a peace loving person for 40+13+2=55 years, he joined in welfare activities if there was any in Mecca, he helped the needy and in distress, he stood for the human cause, he never harmed any person. His record in these 55 years is clean by any standards.

 

[ahmadhassan]

Not bad Jesus fulfilled all but 4 on his first coming. how many did Mohammad fulfill so far?

did he ?prove he did

 

[ahmadhassan]

first ,questions outside the topic im free not to reply dont think im arrogant but i really answered it about 20 time in a still active threads

with respect to chet topic ,what you said about being father of christ or not ,if he wasnt then he isnt from seed of david ,if he was then you shall agree with jews about mary (i dont ,she was virgin and i have my proofs that you will not believe it ,but bible say that mary didnt remain virgin )
second those who posted about
[SIGN]Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.[/SIGN]
was it said by christ? no ,can i quote other things said about christ from other ppl? will you accept it?
[SIGN]
O Israel, hope in the LORD; For with the LORD there is loving kindness, And with Him is abundant redemption. And He will redeem Israel From all his iniquities.[/SIGN]
it talk about whom? God or not?
[SIGN]
But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.[/SIGN]
again not by christ ,even christ contradict it

[SIGN]As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.[/SIGN]
i dont think that you think God is servant is he?

[SIGN]And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.[/SIGN]
no comment ,if you know arabic you would know that churches here are trying to delete that text that show christ weak

 

[Subrosa]

Ahmed,

What you are missing is that the belief system in the early church did not rely completely on the bible to come to understand the nature of God.

All your attempts at justifying your position using the bible are failing because it is a christian’s EXPERIENCE in interacting with God that brings us to the understanding that nature.

We can relate to the bible to see the process by which God revealed Himself to us. But we also rely on the Tradition and historical writtings given to us by the early church to gain more information.

The doctrine of Trinity was expounded at a church council in the year 325 (western calander). The council of Nicaea proclaimed the belief in reaction to a herecy that proclaimed Jesus was meerly a man. Here is some of that meeting…ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/NICAEA1.HTM. Please read the first paragraph carefully.

The experience I speak of can be summed up…

God the Father spoke through the prophets. God has the only authority. All authority is God’s.

Jesus speaks with the authority of God. He forgives sin many times in the bible, for instance. Both you and I know that only God can forgive sin. So, if only God can forgive sin and Jesus forgives sin, then there can be only one conclusion.

The Holy Spirit acts with the authority of God. Only God has that authority. So, if the Holy Spirit acts with God’s authority, and only God has such authority, then there can be only one conclusion.

You need to investigate the religion as a whole, not just the book. You are missing information.

I would suggest “An Introduction to Christianity” by Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI for further insight.

Subrosa

 

[chet]

Psalm 2:7-12

“I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. 'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance, And the very ends of the earth as Your possession. ‘You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.’” Now therefore, O kings, show discernment; Take warning, O judges of the earth. Worship the LORD with reverence And rejoice with trembling. Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, For His wrath may soon be kindled How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!

																		 Psalm 22:1-8

My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning. my God, I cry by day, but You do not answer; And by night, but I have no rest. Yet You are holy, O You who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel. In You our fathers trusted; They trusted and You delivered them. To You they cried out and were delivered; In You they trusted and were not disappointed. But I am a worm and not a man, A reproach of men and despised by the people. All who see me sneer at me; They separate with the lip, they wag the head, saying, “Commit yourself to the LORD; let Him deliver him; Let Him rescue him, because He delights in him."

Psalm 22:14-18

I am poured out like water, And all my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax; It is melted within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, And my tongue cleaves to my jaws; And You lay me in the dust of death. For dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and my feet. can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; They divide my garments among them, And for my clothing they cast lots.

									            Psalm 34:19-21

Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all. He keeps all his bones, Not one of them is broken. Evil shall slay the wicked, And those who hate the righteous will be condemned.

Psalm 40:7-10

Then I said, “Behold, I come; In the scroll of the book it is written of me. I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart.” I have proclaimed glad tidings of righteousness in the great congregation; Behold, I will not restrain my lips, O LORD, You know. I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart; I have spoken of Your faithfulness and Your salvation; I have not concealed Your loving kindness and Your truth from the great congregation.

 

[chet]

The Bible and the necessity of Apostolic Tradition (St. John the Apostle on the minimal amount of information he put in his Gospel in relation to all he witnessed from Jesus) The Gospel of John Ch 21 Vs 24-25

This is the disciple who is testifying to these things and wrote these things, and we know that his testimony is true.
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.

(St. Paul the Apostle on following Apostolic Tradition) 1 Thessalonians Ch 2 Vs 13

For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

2 Thessalonians Ch2 Vs 15

So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

1 Corinthians 11 Vs 1-2

Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.

(Jesus on the necessity of preaching, teaching and baptizing. Note no instructions to write anything down. Only 5 of the 12 Apostles wrote down any of their teachings.) The Gospel of Mark Ch 16 Vs 15-16

And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

The Gospel of Matthew 28 19-20

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

 

[truthnlight]

i just wondering do catholics believe that God is one in 3 persons or 3 in one person

3 in 1 God the Father, God The Son, God The Holy Ghost.

Jesus says in Matthew 28:19, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” If Jesus Christ isn’t Deity, then why did He include Himself in the Holy Trinity?

Jesus says in John 14:9, “…he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?” Is the Father someone other than Jesus Christ? No, not according to Jesus Christ.

In John 10:30, Jesus says, “I and my Father are one.” Isn’t that clear enough?

Philippians 2:6 says that Jesus was in the “form of God”, and that he thought it not robbery to be “equal with God”!

The Jesus Christ of the New Testament claimed to be “one” with God and “equal” with God.

Quoting from Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23 says, “Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.” According to both of these verses, Jesus was “God with us” when He walked upon this earth. He wasn’t merely “God’s chosen one with us” or “God’s Son with us.” As I Timothy 3:16 states, “God was manifest in the flesh.” John 1:14 tells us that “the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us…” In Zechariah 12:10, GOD said that HE (God) would be “pierced” by sinners, and Revelation 1:7 states that Jesus Christ Himself fulfilled this prophecy! Friend, the Bible presents Jesus Christ as much more than a great prophet and teacher. God’s word presents Jesus Christ as God incarnate.

 

[adrift]

you have to know that Gospel according to Matthew was written in herbew newadvent.org/cathen/10057a.htm

Yes I do know that. I also know that no Hebrew manuscript remains. We have only the Greek. This is only a red herring. You have said that Jesus did not say He was God. He did say it. You say that He did not ask that all be baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He did say it. I don’t know what it has to do with the Gospel being written in Hebrew.

To answer another thing you said. Jesus was adopted by Joseph. Adoption is the same, in Jewish law, as your own child. As far as the Jews believing that Jesus would be human, their beliefs do not constitute what God planned. They misunderstood Gods plan for them just as you do.

 

[adrift]

what? where is claiming divinity? i will let christians here to tell you that claiming to be shepherd isnt claiming to be God ,bec he worship God
did he say i`m your God?

Christians WILL tell you that Jesus is the shephed and that He is God.
Ezekiel
Chapter 34

11
For thus says the Lord GOD: I myself will look after and tend my sheep.
12
As a shepherd tends his flock when he finds himself among his scattered sheep, so will I tend my sheep. I will rescue them from every place where they were scattered when it was cloudy and dark.
13
I will lead them out from among the peoples and gather them from the foreign lands; I will bring them back to their own country and pasture them upon the mountains of Israel (in the land’s ravines and all its inhabited places).
14
In good pastures will I pasture them, and on the mountain heights of Israel shall be their grazing ground. There they shall lie down on good grazing ground, and in rich pastures shall they be pastured on the mountains of Israel.
15
I myself will pasture my sheep; I myself will give them rest, says the Lord GOD.
16
The lost I will seek out, the strayed I will bring back, the injured I will bind up, the sick I will heal (but the sleek and the strong I will destroy), shepherding them rightly.

Psalms
Chapter 23
1
1 A psalm of David. 2 The LORD is my shepherd; there is nothing I lack.
2
In green pastures you let me graze; to safe waters you lead me;

 

[chet]

can someone refute what i proved that prophet abram was going to slay his son Ishmael and not isaac ,many talked here but without any proof ,

Genesis 22:1-12 Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.”

He said,

“Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.”

So Abraham rose early in the morning and saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him and Isaac his son; and he split wood for the burnt offering, and arose and went to the place of which God had told him.

On the third day Abraham raised his eyes and saw the place from a distance.

Abraham said to his young men, “Stay here with the donkey, and I and the lad will go over there; and we will worship and return to you.”

Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son, and he took in his hand the fire and the knife. So the two of them walked on together.

Isaac spoke to Abraham his father and said, “My father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” And he said, “Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”

Abraham said, “God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” So the two of them walked on together.

Then they came to the place of which God had told him; and Abraham built the altar there and arranged the wood, and bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood.

Abraham stretched out his hand and took the knife to slay his son.

But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.”

He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”

 

[chet]

Originally Posted by ahmadhassan View Post
can someone refute what i proved that prophet abram was going to slay his son Ishmael and not isaac ,many talked here but without any proof ,

“Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.”

So which son does God tell Abraham to slay?

 

[chet]

Psalm 110:1

The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”

 

[chet]

We believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, Eternally Begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God. Begotten not made,one in being with the Father, Through Him all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary and was made man; He was crucified under Pontius Pilate, suffered,died and was buried; On the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father,From thence He shall come again to judge the living and the dead,and His Kingdom will have no end. We in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, together with the Father and the Son He is worshiped and glorified, He has spoken through the Prophets.We believe in one holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."