God and Biblical Violence

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Nor did I ever say that either. Man, why do I even post here when you apparently know me better then me? I object to the violence in the OT because I personally think they are wrong. Not because I believe it violates some grand universal all applicable laws.
First of all, ***I ***object to the violence in the OT. Whole villages being wiped out? The whole world being wiped out? We’re not talking about our personal opinion of how God runs things. We’re asking is it objectively wrong, and how do we know? But you are saying there is no objective right or wrong, only personal opinon.
Oh yes. I am defeated. 👍
Just a little fun. You are having fun, right? Seriously, even though we’re all trying to prove our point, I don’t want you to feel like you’re personally under attack. I just like to argue. You did see post #14, right?
 
Do I believe in hell? Frankly, I don’t know much about life beyond. I don’t even know what’s going on in that house across the street at the moment, so how can I pretend knowledge of life everlasting?
Well, I don’t know what’s going on across the street either. I know about the after life because of what the Church teaches.

If you don’t believe in hell, why did Jesus have to die? Now if you want to talk about violence, that was pretty violent. And just so we’re on the same page for further discussion, do you believe Jesus is God, or that he was only a good and wise teacher?

I probably won’t get into a lot of discussion about all this, because I don’t want to derail the thread, which is supposed to be on OT violence. Although it may already be headed off the rails and the OP is nowhere to be found, so who knows…
 
First of all, ***I ***object to the violence in the OT. Whole villages being wiped out? The whole world being wiped out? We’re not talking about our personal opinion of how God runs things. We’re asking is it objectively wrong, and how do we know? But you are saying there is no objective right or wrong, only personal opinon.

Just a little fun. You are having fun, right? Seriously, even though we’re all trying to prove our point, I don’t want you to feel like you’re personally under attack. I just like to argue. You did see post #14, right?
All I really have so far is my personal opinion because I am not sure I can supply objective reasoning’s for right and wrong. I’m not saying that there is only personal opinion, just that I cannot supply anything more.

Yeah, it’s fun in a certain odd way. Certain threads are real hair pulling frustrations though simply due to a massive difference in fundamental points of view. Like trying to discuss calculus with someone from India when I have no idea how to speak the same language as them at times. I love to argue. I think it’s maybe kinda why my catholic friend pointed me to here, hehe. Also it’s working parts of my debating mind that haven’t seen much use. I’m used to Protestants lately since I haven’t lived around Catholics in years. Very different with Protestants. They actually use the Bible, where as here I am just hit upside the head constantly with the Catechism.
 
All I really have so far is my personal opinion because I am not sure I can supply objective reasoning’s for right and wrong. I’m not saying that there is only personal opinion, just that I cannot supply anything more.

Yeah, it’s fun in a certain odd way. Certain threads are real hair pulling frustrations though simply due to a massive difference in fundamental points of view. Like trying to discuss calculus with someone from India when I have no idea how to speak the same language as them at times. I love to argue. I think it’s maybe kinda why my catholic friend pointed me to here, hehe. Also it’s working parts of my debating mind that haven’t seen much use. I’m used to Protestants lately since I haven’t lived around Catholics in years. Very different with Protestants. They actually use the Bible, where as here I am just hit upside the head constantly with the Catechism.
I actually can relate in a way, I used to be protestant. I was still Christian, so it wasn’t the huge chasm you’re trying to bridge, but I had a lot of those same arguments myself. 😃
 
Well, I don’t know what’s going on across the street either. I know about the after life because of what the Church teaches.

If you don’t believe in hell, why did Jesus have to die? Now if you want to talk about violence, that was pretty violent. And just so we’re on the same page for further discussion, do you believe Jesus is God, or that he was only a good and wise teacher?

I probably won’t get into a lot of discussion about all this, because I don’t want to derail the thread, which is supposed to be on OT violence. Although it may already be headed off the rails and the OP is nowhere to be found, so who knows…
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 Actually, violence and hell may go hand in hand. Can you imagine a greater violence than to create a fiery hell where people will burn eternally? Was the holocaust violence? Burning eternally might be considered crueler than that, as it goes on forever.

 Now, as to Jesus dying, I don't want to derail this thread either. One of the major challenges to me as one who seeks to follow Christ is the blood atonement idea - that God the Father required that his Son be put to death in such a horrendous fashion for our salvation. Why does that give me pause? It strikes me as a possible holdover from those times and cultures when and where human sacrifice was not only acceptable but necessary. 

 It also seems to me to smack of a 'mystery' that leaves me skeptical. God decided to commit suicide (in a real sense) by deliberately laying down his life when he could have saved it. Etc. I don't want to get into this in any detail, but maybe you get the point. I sometimes have to question the whole atonement thesis. In three days Christ returned to rule the universe, seated at the right hand of God the Father. Hm! Yes, that was a sacrifice, but how many human beings who died in the holocaust, who died in Siberia, who died in Chinese Communist reeducation camps, who died as lepers, paupers, slaves, and on and on may have spent years suffering without reigning over the universe? Silly question? Maybe, but it keeps reoccuring to me.  

  When I focus on Christ I see him first as a champion of the poor, the outcasts, the despised Samaritan heretics, the publicans, the prostitutes, etc. This idea that God had to die in such an humiliating and painful way so that we can live eternally - well.... Traditional Christianity for many, probably most, but.... I guess I'm tempted by 'heresy' myself, though I somehow don't fret about it that much. We're saved by grace through a simple faith and not by special doctrines or precise rituals. At least. that's how I tend to feel.
 
Actually, violence and hell may go hand in hand. Can you imagine a greater violence than to create a fiery hell where people will burn eternally? Was the holocaust violence? Burning eternally might be considered crueler than that, as it goes on forever.
Code:
 Now, as to Jesus dying, I don't want to derail this thread either. One of the major challenges to me as one who seeks to follow Christ is the blood atonement idea - that God the Father required that his Son be put to death in such a horrendous fashion for our salvation. Why does that give me pause? It strikes me as a possible holdover from those times and cultures when and where human sacrifice was not only acceptable but necessary. 

 It also seems to me to smack of a 'mystery' that leaves me skeptical. God decided to commit suicide (in a real sense) by deliberately laying down his life when he could have saved it. Etc. I don't want to get into this in any detail, but maybe you get the point. I sometimes have to question the whole atonement thesis. In three days Christ returned to rule the universe, seated at the right hand of God the Father. Hm! Yes, that was a sacrifice, but how many human beings who died in the holocaust, who died in Siberia, who died in Chinese Communist reeducation camps, who died as lepers, paupers, slaves, and on and on may have spent years suffering without reigning over the universe? Silly question? Maybe, but it keeps reoccuring to me.  

  When I focus on Christ I see him first as a champion of the poor, the outcasts, the despised Samaritan heretics, the publicans, the prostitutes, etc. This idea that God had to die in such an humiliating and painful way so that we can live eternally - well.... Traditional Christianity for many, probably most, but.... I guess I'm tempted by 'heresy' myself, though I somehow don't fret about it that much. We're saved by grace through a simple faith and not by special doctrines or precise rituals. At least. that's how I tend to feel.
Man, it’s hard to put a stop to a discussion once you start one. Last derail, I promise! But I have to ask, What are we saved from? What would be so horrible that the remedy had to be Christ dying to save us?
 
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