God as a objective being

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seagal said:
Sorry, that stuff’s way over my head. Can you break it down a little?
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Sure, with pleasure. I have my version which is simpler:

Assume that there exists a physical state P which causes a metal state M and physical state P*. P however completely determine the state of P* if we believe in causality which means that there is no room left for M to have any affect on P* hence mental states are useless. In simple word P completely define P* hence conscious decision is an illusion.
 
Bahman said:
A person with two natures, divine and human, is not a mystery but a contradiction. Please read here.

By the way what was the sacrifice if he knew he would raise from death?
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Holding two natures is a contradiction to our reason, but not to God’s. That’s why theologians don’t pretend that God’s logic is the same as ours.

He was sacrificed on the cross. Have you never heard the horrible story of the trial and crucifixion of Jesus?

If you can’t bring yourself to read the gospels where that story is located, how informed can you be about other theological matters. Perhaps you need to study Christian theology in depth instead of dismissing it with a wave of your hand?
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Holding two natures is a contradiction to our reason, but not to God’s. That’s why theologians don’t pretend that God’s logic is the same as ours.

He was sacrificed on the cross. Have you never heard the horrible story of the trial and crucifixion of Jesus?

If you can’t bring yourself to read the gospels where that story is located, how informed can you be about other theological matters. Perhaps you need to study Christian theology in depth instead of dismissing it with a wave of your hand?
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There is no such thing as two logics. Something is either logical or it is not. But sometimes something can appear illogical when it is in fact not. There is simply a limitation in our knowledge in such cases. If Christ is God then it can only mean that something is missing from our knowledge.

Having said that, if a good logical reason is not put forward for one to see how it is possible for Christ to be both fully human and fully divine at the same time, then one cannot expect a person to think that it is true. Thus there is a dilemma that cannot simply be solved by waving scripture about.
 
Bahman said:
First, how he could die if he was God?

Second, are you sure that he was the only one who came out of death?
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He took on the nature of a human being – with the quintessentially flimsy human body – so that He could demonstrate His power over death.

There is no other instance of a human being coming out of death to life everlasting. Some, like Lazarus, were raised by others (ie, our LORD) to a later, final death. But our LORD did it himself, and for good.

ICXC NIKA.
 
ChainBreaker said:
There is no such thing as two logics. Something is either logical or it is not. But sometimes something can appear illogical when it is in fact not. There is simply a limitation in our knowledge in such cases. If Christ is God then it can only mean that something is missing from our knowledge.

Having said that, if a good logical reason is not put forward for one to see how it is possible for Christ to be both fully human and fully divine at the same time, then one cannot expect a person to think that it is true. Thus there is a dilemma that cannot simply be solved by waving scripture about.
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Again, you are demanding that God who is infinite explain himself to minds incapable of understanding because they are finite and created. You are not entitled to get entirely inside the mind of God and know what God knows and all God can do or else you would be equal to God. 🤷
 
Charlemagne_III said:
Again, you are demanding that God who is infinite explain himself to minds incapable of understanding because they are finite and created. You are not entitled to get entirely inside the mind of God and know what God knows and all God can do or else you would be equal to God. 🤷
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Well its really not my problem. God created us as rational beings. Thus he cannot expect one to blindly believe that which appears contradictory to our reason.

However, i do not think Christians are necessarily irrational for having faith in the rational/moral necessity of Christ for our salvation either. Like you said we are not God. Perhaps Christ the son is a necessary expression of God’s love for creation?
 
ChainBreaker said:
Well its really not my problem. God created us as rational beings. Thus he cannot expect one to blindly believe that which appears contradictory to our reason.
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If we have the humility to admit that we cannot know the mind of God in its entirety, God can expect us to accept things we cannot know because only God can understand them.

For example, God can expect us to understand that he created the universe without understanding how it is logically possible to produce something from nothing, a logical contradiction.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
If we have the humility to admit that we cannot know the mind of God in its entirety, God can expect us to accept things we cannot know because only God can understand them.
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If God values our dignity as rational beings he cannot expect us to blindly accept things just because human beings say so; it does not reflect my dignity as a rational being to accept that which appears to be a contradiction. However this is merely to say i am not obliged until i see good reason to think otherwise.
For example, God can expect us to understand that he created the universe without understanding how it is logically possible to produce something from nothing, a logical contradiction.
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I don’t accept that God created the world out of nothing if by that one means you can get more from less. You cannot get more from that which is essentially less. You cannot get something from nothing.

What i do accept is that God did not create the world from physical things. I can accept that God thought the world into existence as that would mean that God gave actuality to an idea rather than actuality to nothing at all. It is not metaphysically possible however for God to create the “act of existence”.
 
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