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CeaselessMedik
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2 Timothy 2:13 13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful—he cannot deny himself.
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
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TheOldColonel
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God sticks with us even when we don’t deserve it.
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CeaselessMedik
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How do you get that from it??
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thistle
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D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:2 Timothy 2:13 13 if we are faithless, he remains faithful—he cannot deny himself.
What does that mean?
Ver. 13. If we believe not; i.e. if we refuse to believe in God, or if after having believed, we depart from our faith, the Almighty still continues faithful; he is still what he was. Our believing in him cannot increase his glory, nor can our disbelief in him cause any diminution thereof, since it is already infinite. (Estius) — The sense may be: when we renounce God, and refuse to believe in him, will he be less powerful to punish us? or, will his menaces be less true or less efficacious? He will effect his work without us, for he will infallibly bring about the salvation of his elect. (Bible de Vence)
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CeaselessMedik
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That’s us denying him, not him denying himself. 0.o
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Todd_Easton
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I take it to mean, it is God’s very nature to be faithful. Being unfaithful is not an option for God; it is impossible for him to be unfaithful.
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hymin
Guest
The Angelic Doctor wrote, Then when he says, if we deny him, he will also deny us, he shows what will follow as punishment. But there are two ways in which a person can sin against faith: first, by denying it openly; second, by rejecting it inwardly. In regard to the first he say, if we deny, namely, before others, he will deny us in the judgment: amen, I say to you, I know you not (Matt 25:12). To deny is not to know them to be members of his flock. In regard to the second he says, if we believe not, if we expel faith from our hearts, he continues faithful, i.e., he keeps his own faith; hence a believer remains in his faith, because faith is nothing less than partaking of or clinging to the truth. But he is the truth which cannot deny itself.
“Is he then not omnipotent? I answer that he is omnipotent, precisely because he cannot deny himself. For to be able to fail pertains rather to impotence; for the fact that someone loses some being is due to the weakness of his power. But for Christ to deny himself would be to lose something of himself; consequently, the fact that he cannot deny himself is an aspect of his perfect power. Hence he can neither sin, as has been said, nor deny his power and his justice, when punishment must be inflicted: he that believes not shall be condemned (Mark 16:16).” (2 Tim Super II ad Timotheu, C. 2, L. 2, 56-57)
In short he is describing the veracity of the Truth himself, the Word. We are cast out by our own unfaithfulness, inwardly or outwardly. The truth is the truth, we cannot change him, nor can he deny himself. The Angelic Doctor goes on to the say (within isolation of the verses mentioned by the OP) that God can remit punishment by the order of wisdom, but not by the order of wisdom and justice. I say in that respect the beatitudes such as Blessed are the merciful.
“Is he then not omnipotent? I answer that he is omnipotent, precisely because he cannot deny himself. For to be able to fail pertains rather to impotence; for the fact that someone loses some being is due to the weakness of his power. But for Christ to deny himself would be to lose something of himself; consequently, the fact that he cannot deny himself is an aspect of his perfect power. Hence he can neither sin, as has been said, nor deny his power and his justice, when punishment must be inflicted: he that believes not shall be condemned (Mark 16:16).” (2 Tim Super II ad Timotheu, C. 2, L. 2, 56-57)
In short he is describing the veracity of the Truth himself, the Word. We are cast out by our own unfaithfulness, inwardly or outwardly. The truth is the truth, we cannot change him, nor can he deny himself. The Angelic Doctor goes on to the say (within isolation of the verses mentioned by the OP) that God can remit punishment by the order of wisdom, but not by the order of wisdom and justice. I say in that respect the beatitudes such as Blessed are the merciful.
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fhansen
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God loves us, in spite of our sin and lack of faith in, let alone love for, Him. That’s who He is; “God is love”.
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hymin
Guest
Agape is tested love. And invites those who sup with Him to sacrifice. In time, he brings out in the journey a free choice for our will to co-develop the soul with the love of penance.
“Then when he says, but if he withdraw himself (Heb 10:38), he shows the danger hanging over a person who does not continue in the justice of faith. For since it lies within the power of the believer to destroy himself or to save himself, he says, but if he withdraw himself, namely, from the faith and from justice, he shall not please my soul. Our version has: his soul shall not be right in himself (Hab 2:4).” (Heb, C. 10 L. 4, 549)
“Then when he says, but if he withdraw himself (Heb 10:38), he shows the danger hanging over a person who does not continue in the justice of faith. For since it lies within the power of the believer to destroy himself or to save himself, he says, but if he withdraw himself, namely, from the faith and from justice, he shall not please my soul. Our version has: his soul shall not be right in himself (Hab 2:4).” (Heb, C. 10 L. 4, 549)
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April29
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I think this has more to do with who He is in His essence. God is fidelity, He is love, He is mercy, and yes, He is justice. God cannot change who He is because He is perfect and therefore doesn’t go back and forth like we ( faulty and weak) humans do. By being unfaithful, by changing anything that He has ever been, God would deny the very essence of who He is. He is the very essence and source of every good quality so by not being faithful, by not being mercy and Love itself He would be going against the very fabric of who He is. So even if we change because we are imperfect and fallen, He remains faithful because He is the never changing, all perfect, all loving, all Holy, all faithfull God He has always been. God never changes.
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hymin
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The Angelic Doctor taught, "Also, it is a property of love that the lover becomes transformed into the loved one; so, if we love vile and perishable things, we become vile and perishable, like those who ‘became detestable like the things they loved’ (Hos 9:10). Whereas, if we love God, we are made divine, for the Apostle says, 'He who is united to the Lord becomes one Spirit in Him (1 Cor 6:17) [Explanation of the Ten Commandments, prol., 3)
We have the potential to love the all good God, if we decide to abandon this world for the unseen realities. And that abandonment is good for the world.
We have the potential to love the all good God, if we decide to abandon this world for the unseen realities. And that abandonment is good for the world.
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hymin
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“Let us not accuse Christ in defending Peter. Let infirmity acknowledge its sin; for there is no falsehood in the Truth. When Peter’s infirmity acknowledged its sin, his acknowledgment was full; and the greatness of the evil he had committed in denying Christ, he showed by his tears. He himself reproves his defenders, and for their conviction, brings his tears forward as witnesses.” (St. Augustine, Tractate 66, n. 2)
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CeaselessMedik
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Agh. a number of replies overnight! I think I get it, though. Thanks, all.
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