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DILCIA
Guest
I heard a muslim say to a christian that if the bible is true and Jesus died, how can He be God as God cannot die? Can someone explain this to me?
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tee_eff_em
Guest
God (obviously) *can *and *did *die, as Jesus on the cross.
What your Muslim interlocutor has a problem with is the *incarnation. *Why the moslem vision of God should be so limited is beyond me. Is the God of the moslem omnipotent (incarnation possible) or not?
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What your Muslim interlocutor has a problem with is the *incarnation. *Why the moslem vision of God should be so limited is beyond me. Is the God of the moslem omnipotent (incarnation possible) or not?
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Hmmm, I would have to say that this Muslim person is correct, in a way.
God, the divinity, can not die. But Jesus did not just have the Divine Nature but he also had a Human Nature, that was the purpose of the Incarnation. So Jesus did die but God did not.
It’s another one of those mysteries.
God, the divinity, can not die. But Jesus did not just have the Divine Nature but he also had a Human Nature, that was the purpose of the Incarnation. So Jesus did die but God did not.
It’s another one of those mysteries.
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tee_eff_em
Guest
I respectfully disagree. To say “Jesus did die but God did not” is to deny the divinity of Jesus. cf. Question 15 of The World’s Toughest Catholic Quiz.
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JimG
Guest
The Person of the Son of God had to take on a human nature in order to die. Death has no meaning to the divine nature, which is eternal and timeless.
By taking on a human nature, Jesus (as man) was able to die, because he had a human body and soul in his human nature. The separation of the human body from the human soul is called death.
That didn’t affect his divine nature at all.
But Jesus is a divine person. And he could and did die, only because he took on a human nature.
Muslims apparently believe that this is at least one thing that God cannot do: i.e. assume a human nature of his own volition.
By taking on a human nature, Jesus (as man) was able to die, because he had a human body and soul in his human nature. The separation of the human body from the human soul is called death.
That didn’t affect his divine nature at all.
But Jesus is a divine person. And he could and did die, only because he took on a human nature.
Muslims apparently believe that this is at least one thing that God cannot do: i.e. assume a human nature of his own volition.
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exoflare
Guest
Ask your Muslim friend why he believes God cannot die.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Thanks Jim!
You expressed my thought much better than I did.
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PraRFLEsEkHm
Guest
Hi
From New Advent:
That which lies beneath - the soul of Christ was in union with God - to make him God/Man. The body could have, and did, die. The Soul of Christ, along with the second person of the Trinity, in union, descended to ‘death’ and preached to the souls there - those who believed were released (See Matthew 27:51-53).
See also, New Advent for a detailed explanation of the Incarnation.
Hope that, along with the other responses, helped
Peace
John
From New Advent:
((Emphasis mine)
That which lies beneath - the soul of Christ was in union with God - to make him God/Man. The body could have, and did, die. The Soul of Christ, along with the second person of the Trinity, in union, descended to ‘death’ and preached to the souls there - those who believed were released (See Matthew 27:51-53).
See also, New Advent for a detailed explanation of the Incarnation.
Hope that, along with the other responses, helped
Peace
John
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DILCIA
Guest
Thanks to everyone for their replies. The Muslim in question was on a TV programme called “30 days” in which an American practicing Christian man had to spend 30 days with a Muslim family. It was somewhere where there are a lot of Muslims in USA. The Muslim cleric said that God couldn’t die, presumably because if He did they we would all disappear if He did!
However the answers on this thread have helped a lot. Thanks again.
I wanted to know cause I’m off to the Holy Land next year and am reading lots of stuff including about the Jewish and Muslim religions.
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Todd_Easton
Guest
Your Muslim friend seems to equate death with non-existance but this is an error. Death, in the case of human beings and the Incarnate God, is simply the separation of the immortal spirit from the mortal body. The immortal spirit’s faculties of intellect and will are unaffected by death.
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tee_eff_em
Guest
And: We look forward to the day when, following the example of Christ, the firstfruits, our immortal spirits will be reunited with our glorified bodies. :bounce:
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JimG
Guest
You’re friend is right in one sense. If God could cease to exist, so would we all cease to exist; since we and all creation are held in existence by the will of God.
But the death of Jesus did not result in the non-existence of God. It simply means that in his human nature, Jesus soul was separated from his body in a human death. Both his human soul and his divine being continued to exist.
(For that matter we do not cease to exist with death.)
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jimmy
Guest
He is right, God can’t die. That is not the claim of Christianity. The claim is that Jesus, who was 100% man as well, died. Jesus died in his human nature, not in the divine nature. The arguement the muslim is trying to make does not apply.
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VociMike
Guest
Yes, his explanation was excellent.
Even humans don’t die in the sense of ceasing to exist, but, as Jim said, only in the sense of our souls separating from our bodies. Our souls still continue to exist, however. Since God did not have a body before the Incarnation, He could not die, but with the Incarnation came the possibility of death (and suffering as well).
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Dan-Man916
Guest
People are confusing nature with person here.
Jesus is a divine person with 2 natures. His divine person did not cease when he assumed a human nature.
Jesus died. Therefore, God died because the person is divine.
However, when we are talking about nature, it was his human nature that died, not his divine nature.
So yes, the divine person died. the divine nature did not die. The human nature did die.
And on the third day, the person of Jesus rose. His human nature was resurrected and glorified.
That is our promise, that our bodies will be fully divinized.
We need to keep the terms “nature and person” straight.
Jesus is a divine person with 2 natures. His divine person did not cease when he assumed a human nature.
Jesus died. Therefore, God died because the person is divine.
However, when we are talking about nature, it was his human nature that died, not his divine nature.
So yes, the divine person died. the divine nature did not die. The human nature did die.
And on the third day, the person of Jesus rose. His human nature was resurrected and glorified.
That is our promise, that our bodies will be fully divinized.
We need to keep the terms “nature and person” straight.
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Dan-Man916
Guest
ok,
so after going back and reading everyone else’s responses, i basically said the same thing everyone else did.
so after going back and reading everyone else’s responses, i basically said the same thing everyone else did.
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tee_eff_em
Guest
I can agree with this – people have been confusing *nature *and person. And I think you are one of them, when you speak of the “divine person”.
*Nature *answers the question “What?”; *Person *answers the question “Who?”
What is Jesus? Jesus is divine. Jesus is human. Two natures.
Who is Jesus? Jesus is God. One person.
But as the World’s Toughest Catholic Quiz rightly (I believe) states: Natures don’t die – Persons die.
Jesus, the person of God, died.
Death is ineffective wrt his divine nature; wrt his human nature, the effect of death is to rend body and soul asunder.
(*Who *died? God died.)
(*What *was affected in death? His human nature was affected.)
:twocents:
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VociMike
Guest
But Jesus is a Divine Person, isn’t He? I thought that was a doctrine.I can agree with this – people have been confusing *nature *and person. And I think you are one of them, when you speak of the “divine person”.
I wonder if it might not be more helpful to say that the concept of dying simply doesn’t apply to divine nature. It has no meaning. Whereas it does have meaning to human nature. Thus the Divine Person of Jesus died by virtue of the fact that He has a human nature (which is not to say that His human nature died) along with a Divine nature.
Or maybe that’s not helpful at all…
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