God centered -- man centered

[laszlo]

I attended the the first two days of the Sacred Triduum in my regular church, the last day in my territorial church.

All three liturgies were according to the new rites, but the difference was significant.

In my regular church everything was kept according to the books, and the center was God and Jesus Christ.

In my territorial church a theatrical composition was performed. About 600 people together, and about 100 had some active individual part to show their talent. Even the sermon emphasized the importance of their preparation, and people were time to time advised to applause. The most fancy was the readings (total 1.5 hours) where each reading was made a different style theatrical action, emphasizing the human performance. As an example, in the first reading 6 or so human voices competed against the pianist, like the tenor in Operas of Wagner against the orchestra. In overall the musical director strictly believed that the number of the decibels pleases God (or may be him). Also after the communion the Alleluia from the Messiah of Handel was performed, even as a surprise for the pastor, proving that the liturgy is fallen into the hand of laymen.

I believe, this attitude and not the new rite itself is about what our pope as Cardinal Ratzinger said that it is man made an banal.

The Liturgy had to be centered around God, following the books. No servant can make the rules.

 

[InspiritCarol]

Help me out here, lazlo.

I’m having trouble wrapping my head around your post.

Now, granted, I wasn’t there to see what transpired, so maybe I’m just missing something.

I understand what you are saying about the importance of focus, but wasn’t it God that gave us our various talents? It sounds like this was something special and so shouldn’t we be expected to put forth our very best?

If the sermon included reference to the hours put in by the people involved, that seems to indicate to me that they were volunteers. Are we not to use the gifts that God gave us to glorify Him? I’m not sure you begin to comprehend how much extraordinary effort goes into putting together even the simplest special piece of music.

From a musician’s perspective, this kind of unrewarded work is *only *for God. It is a shame that pastors are too busy to write a thank you note or some other token and so feel the need to encourage inappropriate applause. Personally, I hate *all *recognition, as it is implying that I am there for such and, frankly, there is no amount of applause or accolades that could begin to recognize the enormous effort and sacrifice that I did put into making something special.

I have found that the more I do as an unrewarded musician (within reason), the more the parishioners feel inspired to pull out their own talents and dust them off for the glory of God. It’s kind of an unspoken contract we have. The ends far outreach the “performance” type moment.

lazlo, I wasn’t there… so maybe I’m missing something; but it *sounds *like you are demanding that we, musicians, thespians, etc., only use our talents in a secular way. I invite you to correct my perception on this.

I’d appreciate *real *responses instead of derision from the finger-pointers here (you know who you are).

 

[PLAT]

Same as Carol, I think you would have to be more explicit so that we don’t just guess what has happened, but here’s what…

The problem is that some things are laws and cannot be changed by laymen preferences. For example, the Gospel must be read by the lowest ordained minister celebrating or concelebrating the mass (i.e. deacon is preferable to the youngest priest to an older priest and so on), while the homily should be given by the celebrant.

I am against applausing at any point of the mass (except maybe in weddings and baptisms and confirmation etc.), although I don’t think the setting you described for the readings are too much of a problem since it would be read by laymen anyway.

But really, it is down to the intentions of the people. If they think they please God just because they spent a lot of time preparing, they are utterly wrong. If the preparation is designed to set a mood for the people to feel the solemnity of the mass and directs them to God, then I think it’s appropiate. After all, we don’t “work” our way up to heaven as many portestants misunderstood.

 

[InspiritCarol]

Same as Carol, I think you would have to be more explicit so that we don’t just guess what has happened, but here’s what…

The problem is that some things are laws and cannot be changed by laymen preferences. For example, the Gospel must be read by the lowest ordained minister celebrating or concelebrating the mass (i.e. deacon is preferable to the youngest priest to an older priest and so on), while the homily should be given by the celebrant.

I am against applausing at any point of the mass (except maybe in weddings and baptisms and confirmation etc.), although I don’t think the setting you described for the readings are too much of a problem since it would be read by laymen anyway.

But really, it is down to the intentions of the people. If they think they please God just because they spent a lot of time preparing, they are utterly wrong. If the preparation is designed to set a mood for the people to feel the solemnity of the mass and directs them to God, then I think it’s appropiate. After all, we don’t “work” our way up to heaven as many portestants misunderstood.

Very good, yes.

But it is good to inspire each other to do our very best for God at all times. Did that come across in my post?

 

[puzzleannie]

I Also after the communion the Alleluia from the Messiah of Handel was performed, even as a surprise for the pastor, proving that the liturgy is fallen into the hand of laymen.

I.

you had music of this quality and you are complaining? what am I missing?

 

[laszlo]

I understand what you are saying about the importance of focus, but wasn’t it God that gave us our various talents? It sounds like this was something special and so shouldn’t we be expected to put forth our very best?

Modus in rebus. There is time for everything, different times for different things.

Our theatrical talents are for the world, not as theatrical production for the sacrifice of Christ. The Mass is not folk festival: it is the bloodless sacrifice of Christ. Jesus Christ humiliates himself, we shall follow Him.

May be your world is different, but I go to Church to worship God, not to enjoy the human talent.

The musical director has to be the servant and not the make or the liturgy.