God created an aged Universe?

[Decimvs]

Science claims the universe is far older than what the bibles leads us to believe.
Couldn’t the universe be as young as the bible explains, but only that it seems alot older because God created a Universe with age?

If you don’t know what I mean, let me explain it this way.
God created Adam and Eve, the second he created them, they were new right? But they already appeared to be mature, as if they were like adults but never actually existed before to grow and age.

Same thing as in the Chicken before the egg.
Do you guys think this could be true, making scientific theory about the earth’s age irrelevant?

 

[buffalo]

Start a thread in the “back fence”.

 

[rubenzillo]

God Created the Universe and at God’s timing he created Adam & Eve. the siz days of creation on the book of Genesis does not necessarily mean 6 - 24 hr days… so time is irrelevant.

 

[Ed_Normile]

I always wonder why we as man have to try and place proofs on God. We have a limited intelligence, our knowledge has expanded during our existence throught the ages, we have came from using simple tools to using complex tools. Big deal, what education or knowledge could ever allow us the audacity to think we could prove God, or disprove any thing he has done. Science is the theory of the day that we have proven at that time, once the proven theory was the world was flat, we all have heard that one, the universe revolved around the earth, then we find new stars and we think we have mapped His universe, now we have science that verifies black holes as collapsed stars that contain galaxies, someday they may be “proven” to be variations in how light passes through densities in space, who knows? In a hundred years if we exist what will be the current scientific proof ? I have proof of God, it lives in my heart, it has no substance yet I can feel it, I know its true as sure as I know He loves me.

ed

 

[patrick457]

Science claims the universe is far older than what the bibles leads us to believe.
Couldn’t the universe be as young as the bible explains, but only that it seems alot older because God created a Universe with age?

If you don’t know what I mean, let me explain it this way.
God created Adam and Eve, the second he created them, they were new right? But they already appeared to be mature, as if they were like adults but never actually existed before to grow and age.

Same thing as in the Chicken before the egg.
Do you guys think this could be true, making scientific theory about the earth’s age irrelevant?

Well, first of all: why would God make the newly-formed universe look ‘old’ when it is not? Is He trying to deceive us by creating things with the appearance of ‘age’; if so, what kind of a God is He that He lies to His own creation by making a thing look like something it is not?

Second, we must distinguish between ‘old’ and ‘mature’. As per Genesis, God created things that were fully functional from the beginning. After all, plants had to be bearing fruit in order to provide sustenance; He did not just create seeds and wait for them to grow. Creation had to be capable of reproduction, so they were not created immature. Adam and Eve would have to be able to reproduce in order to fulfill the mandate to be fruitful and multiply. This does not imply that these creatures were created ‘old’, but rather, that they were created ‘mature’, and thus functional.

Some would even point out that the whole concept of ‘appearance of age’ is an oxymoron, as age cannot be seen. Therefore, something cannot really ‘appear’ old or young. Age is a question of history, not a matter of present observation. We sometimes use the phrase like this: “Bob looks seventeen.” But what we really mean is that Bob resembles (in some ways) other people who are known to be seventeen years old.

If we go by a literal reading of Genesis, the universe would then be created ‘mature’, in the sense that it was complete and functional; but this is not the same as saying that it was created ‘aged’.

 

[edwest2]

When Jesus was at the wedding feast and asked for two containers of water, they turned into wine. Were grapes picked, allowed to ferment and age, and then get put into the containers? No.

Peace,
Ed

 

[dconklin]

As proof of the Church’s belief of how the universe was created you can check out the Vatican Observatory. I met Father Coyne, S.J. when he came to our parish to speak about the creation of the universe. It was fascinating though it quickly went way over my head. The only difference (I suppose) between Father’s presentation and any other scientist’s presentation is the interlacing of God’s unfathomable power.

 

[agent_grey]

If science shows the scriptures to be wrong the man of God must side with science and reject the scriptures.

The scriptures are always on trial. Anything less is Pagan Literature worship.

Besides the bible is riddle with blatantly obviouse contradictions. Contradictions so obvious that they demonstrate the demonic spirit of the biblical innerantist in such a radical fashion that I have to wonder if God himself put the contradictions in place for the simple purpose of making the devil so easy to spot. Just compare the gospel record of Yeshua’s teaching on divorce with that of the Torah and you will find that Yeshua admits what Moses said and then very stearnly reveals that Moses was wrong and God has no part in Moses words on the topic. To the point that if an individual takes advantage of what moses had to say they fall into Mortal sin. Totally and absolutely destroying the false teaching of biblical innerancy and its right there in the bible text itself. Brilliant!!!

By the way… What exactly is the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

 

[thistle]

Science claims the universe is far older than what the bibles leads us to believe.
Couldn’t the universe be as young as the bible explains, but only that it seems alot older because God created a Universe with age?

If you don’t know what I mean, let me explain it this way.
God created Adam and Eve, the second he created them, they were new right? But they already appeared to be mature, as if they were like adults but never actually existed before to grow and age.

Same thing as in the Chicken before the egg.
Do you guys think this could be true, making scientific theory about the earth’s age irrelevant?

The Bible is not a science journal. It does not lead us to believe what the age of the universe is.
I’m Catholic and believe the age of the universe to be around 13.75 billion years old and the earth around 4.6 billion years old.

 

[Jehoshua]

Metaphor, it astounds me how certain persons can;t seem to acknowledge metaphor in scripture. You just have to look at revelation to see metaphor at work in the bible. So as has previously been said time is irrelevant, the days are not neccesarily 24 hour earth days, and the whole thing should most likely be taken a metaphor for long periods of specific creation in the universes history. (ie era the original light, the big bang = let there be light)

 

[DavidFilmer]

The “laws of nature/science” were invented by God. When dealing with the physical world, God seems to prefer to work within those laws as much as practical.

When the crowd was hungry, Jesus did not make bread and fish appear out of thin air (though he could have). He accepted the offering of bread and fish from a boy. It’s not considered a miracle that grain and fish multiply (they do it all the time) - Jesus only accelerated the timeframe. Likewise, Jesus did not fill the empty jars at Cana with wine (though he could have) - he first instructed that they be filled with water. The liquid component of wine was once water, so - again - he accelerated the process.

God could have created the world in the manner that “science” says, or he could have created a mature universe in an instant, but in a way that was consistent with the “science” he created, and, thus, presented all evidence of being created in the “scientific” way. Maybe dinosaurs never actually roamed the earth, but God envisioned such a pre-history and created the earth with dinosaur remains trapped between layers of sand/rock.

It is impossible to either prove or disprove such a theory.

 

[MarkThompson]

When the crowd was hungry, Jesus did not make bread and fish appear out of thin air (though he could have). He accepted the offering of bread and fish from a boy. It’s not considered a miracle that grain and fish multiply (they do it all the time) - Jesus only accelerated the timeframe. Likewise, Jesus did not fill the empty jars at Cana with wine (though he could have) - he first instructed that they be filled with water. The liquid component of wine was once water, so - again - he accelerated the process.

Perhaps you are trying to make a more subtle point that escapes me here, but none of this is correct scientifically. Milled, baked grain and dead fish are no longer capable of reproducing, and the liquid alcohol in wine is not produced from water, but from the sugars in grape juice, which are broken down biochemically into ethanol plus carbon dioxide. Neither of these miracles is an example of “accelerating the timeframe,” since neither bread, nor dead fish, nor water will ever produce more bread or fish, nor wine, whether you leave it out for an hour or a century.

 

[manualman]

If science shows the scriptures to be wrong the man of God must side with science and reject the scriptures.

The scriptures are always on trial. Anything less is Pagan Literature worship.

Besides the bible is riddle with blatantly obviouse contradictions. Contradictions so obvious that they demonstrate the demonic spirit of the biblical innerantist in such a radical fashion that I have to wonder if God himself put the contradictions in place for the simple purpose of making the devil so easy to spot.

You don’t seem to be aware that catholic teaching declares the bible to be divinely inspired and inerrant revelation! I suggest reading Dei Verbum (sp?) from Vatican 2.

You never reject the Scriptures or you are rejecting God. Catholic teaching is that there can never be a true contradiction between reason and revelation. When there APPEARS to be, then there is merely either a flaw in the reasoning or a mistake in the interpretation of the Scripture.

Please don’t throw the baby Jesus out with the bathwater.

 

[thistle]

If science shows the scriptures to be wrong the man of God must side with science and reject the scriptures.

The scriptures are always on trial. Anything less is Pagan Literature worship.

Besides the bible is riddle with blatantly obviouse contradictions. Contradictions so obvious that they demonstrate the demonic spirit of the biblical innerantist in such a radical fashion that I have to wonder if God himself put the contradictions in place for the simple purpose of making the devil so easy to spot. Just compare the gospel record of Yeshua’s teaching on divorce with that of the Torah and you will find that Yeshua admits what Moses said and then very stearnly reveals that Moses was wrong and God has no part in Moses words on the topic. To the point that if an individual takes advantage of what moses had to say they fall into Mortal sin. Totally and absolutely destroying the false teaching of biblical innerancy and its right there in the bible text itself. Brilliant!!!

By the way… What exactly is the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Are you really a Catholic?

 

[kenofken]

Science claims the universe is far older than what the bibles leads us to believe.
Couldn’t the universe be as young as the bible explains, but only that it seems alot older because God created a Universe with age?

If you don’t know what I mean, let me explain it this way.
God created Adam and Eve, the second he created them, they were new right? But they already appeared to be mature, as if they were like adults but never actually existed before to grow and age.

Same thing as in the Chicken before the egg.
Do you guys think this could be true, making scientific theory about the earth’s age irrelevant?

It could be true, but it’s far from the most plausible explanation. A far more likely possibility to my mind is that the universe IS really that old and that attempts to read Bible passages literally blind oneself to the more profound truths that mythology conveys.

 

[agapewarrior]

Here’s an answer that might possibly put a damper on things… who cares how God did it? He did it. God is good, everything else hasn’t the slightest relevance to faith.

Edit: Also, sorry for posting this simple answer in apologetic philosophy, but God’s goodness has got me hooked and I can’t stop sharing.

 

[cassini]

Science claims the universe is far older than what the bibles leads us to believe.
Couldn’t the universe be as young as the bible explains, but only that it seems alot older because God created a Universe with age?

If you don’t know what I mean, let me explain it this way.
God created Adam and Eve, the second he created them, they were new right? But they already appeared to be mature, as if they were like adults but never actually existed before to grow and age.

Same thing as in the Chicken before the egg.
Do you guys think this could be true, making scientific theory about the earth’s age irrelevant?

There is a long abandoned ex nihilo creation theology. In it it understands that God created all things whole and perfect according to its nature around 6,000 years ago. As with Adam and Eve, who were not created as babies, so too were the earth, sun, moon and stars created whole and entire as they now are to serve their purpose. In other words, once there was nothing, and then were the stars, sun, planets (moving stars), moon and Earth, created to serve God greatest creation, that of man. This theology I now hold.

As for the chicken before the egg. well in fact you need two chickens to produce a chicken creature on earth. and indeed, that is what God did create, male and female according to their kinds.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

First of all, the Bible can be very difficult to interperet. Especially when only looking at a single passage or chapter. Even translation to different languages can cause confusion. Secondly, many things are not to be taken literally. That’s why we look to the Church teaching when there is confusion on a topic. The Church doesn’t claim to say how old the universe is.

Here is a summary of the Church teaching from the catechism.
scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p4.htm#I

IN BRIEF

315 In the creation of the world and of man, God gave the first and universal witness to his almighty love and his wisdom, the first proclamation of the “plan of his loving goodness”, which finds its goal in the new creation in Christ.

316 Though the work of creation is attributed to the Father in particular, it is equally a truth of faith that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit together are the one, indivisible principle of creation.

317 God alone created the universe, freely, directly and without any help.

318 No creature has the infinite power necessary to “create” in the proper sense of the word, that is, to produce and give being to that which had in no way possessed it (to call into existence “out of nothing”) (cf DS 3624).

319 God created the world to show forth and communicate his glory. That his creatures should share in his truth, goodness and beauty - this is the glory for which God created them.

320 God created the universe and keeps it in existence by his Word, the Son “upholding the universe by his word of power” (Heb 1:3), and by his Creator Spirit, the giver of life.

321 Divine providence consists of the dispositions by which God guides all his creatures with wisdom and love to their ultimate end.

322 Christ invites us to filial trust in the providence of our heavenly Father (cf. Mt 6:26-34), and St. Peter the apostle repeats: “Cast all your anxieties on him, for he cares about you” (I Pt 5:7; cf. Ps 55:23).

323 Divine providence works also through the actions of creatures. To human beings God grants the ability to cooperate freely with his plans.

324 The fact that God permits physical and even moral evil is a mystery that God illuminates by his Son Jesus Christ who died and rose to vanquish evil. Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.

 

[patrick457]

There is a long abandoned ex nihilo creation theology. In it it understands that God created all things whole and perfect according to its nature around 6,000 years ago. As with Adam and Eve, who were not created as babies, so too were the earth, sun, moon and stars created whole and entire as they now are to serve their purpose. In other words, once there was nothing, and then were the stars, sun, planets (moving stars), moon and Earth, created to serve God greatest creation, that of man. This theology I now hold.

As for the chicken before the egg. well in fact you need two chickens to produce a chicken creature on earth. and indeed, that is what God did create, male and female according to their kinds.

Long-abandoned? I was always under the impression that creatio ex nihilo is often presupposed (I’m not ignorant of the ideas which critique this, though).

BTW, just a little tangent, but depending on whether you read the Masoretic or the Septuagint, the year the world began would vary from 4000 BC to 5500 BC. The 2nd-century bishop Theophilus of Antioch put the date as 5529-30 BC; his near-contemporary Rabbi Jose ben Halafta believed that man was created in 3760 BC. Eusebius of Caesarea and St. Jerome dated it to 5199 BC (which apparently caught some steam in the West; the Christmas Proclamation in the Roman Martyrology and the visionary Maria de Agreda uses this reckoning); the Alexandrians pinned it as 5493 BC. The Chronicon Paschale dates the creation of Adam to 21 March 5507 BC; the Byzantine Etos Kosmou meanwhile has 5509 BC. Jews nowadays date the year as 3760 BC; James Ussher famously believed it to be 4004 BC.

Which brings us to historic premillenialism (distinct from dispensational premillenialism you often see nowadays, which is a recent creation). Some Church Fathers who held this opinion saw the world as being destined to last for six or seven thousand years, echoing the six days of creation (one day=one millenium; after all, “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years”). After the six thousand years are completed, either the world will end or a further thousand years of Sabbath will be given men (cf. God’s rest on the seventh day) which would then be a prelude to the end of days, depending on who you ask.

 

[Ichthys4121517]

Science claims the universe is far older than what the bibles leads us to believe.
Couldn’t the universe be as young as the bible explains, but only that it seems alot older because God created a Universe with age?

If you don’t know what I mean, let me explain it this way.
God created Adam and Eve, the second he created them, they were new right? But they already appeared to be mature, as if they were like adults but never actually existed before to grow and age.

Same thing as in the Chicken before the egg.
Do you guys think this could be true, making scientific theory about the earth’s age irrelevant?

This is all assuming that the kind of “science” you mention is true in the first place. Do you mean carbon dating, the same dating method that tells us that the most recent eruption of Mount St. Helens didn’t occur thirty years ago but millions of years ago? Modern dating methods all assume uniformitarianism, which is something that has not been proven yet.

Most old-earth Christians claim that they know which chapters of the Bible are literal and which are allegorical, poetic, etc. I do, too. I know that, as we can tell from Jesus’ reference to Genesis in defending traditional marriage, among other sources, Genesis was meant to be a historical record. If it weren’t, it wouldn’t be so specific about ages of the patriarchs and such.