God does not force Himself upon us? What about St Paul?

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I’ve been reading some of Pope Benedict XVI’s work recently, and he is pretty awesome. 😃

Anyway, he was writing that basically God doesn’t force Himself upon us and draws us to Him instead, and basically is also a good explanation as to why God doesn’t just show Himself to everyone immediately, so as to not force us to love Him etc.

However, what about the appearance to St Paul? It seems to contradict the idea of a God that is gentle and doesn’t force Himself upon us. I mean, sure, Paul still had the free will to reject God, but at the price of probably losing his eyesight…
 
I’ve been reading some of Pope Benedict XVI’s work recently, and he is pretty awesome. 😃

Anyway, he was writing that basically God doesn’t force Himself upon us and draws us to Him instead, and basically is also a good explanation as to why God doesn’t just show Himself to everyone immediately, so as to not force us to love Him etc.

However, what about the appearance to St Paul? It seems to contradict the idea of a God that is gentle and doesn’t force Himself upon us. I mean, sure, Paul still had the free will to reject God, but at the price of probably losing his eyesight…
“Forcing” would mean that God would remove our ability to choose - our ability to freely “will to reject” Him or to accept Him.
God never takes away our free will; that is no doubt what Pope Benedict means in the work you’re reading.
 
First, Paul was already zealous for the will of God. That is why he was heading to Damascus, to snuff out this evil new religion.

Second, Paul was probably the type of person that needed dramatic intervention, at least that was the judgement of God.

Thirdly, It was great honor to Paul, and he knew it immediately. Even before he was baptized or had his vision restored, he began fasting and praying.

Sometimes God DOES intervene in someone’s life in a dramatic way. Just read the lives of the Saints. It is especially true of souls SERIOUSLY seeking the Truth.

IOW, God has already been invited in. How God’s grace comes CAN be dramatic, although it is very rare.
 
I’ve been reading some of Pope Benedict XVI’s work recently, and he is pretty awesome. 😃

Anyway, he was writing that basically God doesn’t force Himself upon us and draws us to Him instead, and basically is also a good explanation as to why God doesn’t just show Himself to everyone immediately, so as to not force us to love Him etc.

However, what about the appearance to St Paul? It seems to contradict the idea of a God that is gentle and doesn’t force Himself upon us. I mean, sure, Paul still had the free will to reject God, but at the price of probably losing his eyesight…
If, or when, you come to realize that when you are hearing those commissioned by Jesus you really are hearing him, and when they baptize and/or confirm you and give you the Holy Spirit, you are really and truly and actually receiving this from him (citizenship in his Kingdom), then you will be in awe the same way Paul was (maybe not with blinding light, but with realization that Jesus touched you and changed you and you have legitimate participation in Him).
That is why I wanted to be Catholic and am so zealous for the Church, the Pope, the Magisterium, the Gospel, Jesus in all. I am one of them, the Catholics; they are my people and we have our King and our God.

John Martin
 
I’ve been reading some of Pope Benedict XVI’s work recently, and he is pretty awesome. 😃

Anyway, he was writing that basically God doesn’t force Himself upon us and draws us to Him instead, and basically is also a good explanation as to why God doesn’t just show Himself to everyone immediately, so as to not force us to love Him etc.

However, what about the appearance to St Paul? It seems to contradict the idea of a God that is gentle and doesn’t force Himself upon us. I mean, sure, Paul still had the free will to reject God, but at the price of probably losing his eyesight…
After being initially called…Paul still spent time, about three years…I would say…proving himself, initially.

From Gal 1:

13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.

18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas** and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother. 20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.

21 Then I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22 I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they praised God because of me.

And prior to going on his first missionary journey…is called, yet again and ordained:

Acts 13

13 1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.**
 
However, what about the appearance to St Paul?
What about it?

When the Father spoke out from the heavens at the baptism of the Lord and said with a loud voice: “This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased.” some said: “it is just thunder.” When the Lord healed from possesion a man who was mute, and he started to speak, some quite learned individuals said: “he does that not from God’s power, but from the devil’s own authority.” I could bring up dozens of stories, and someone learned could bring up hundreds even, of situations in which the Lord has deigned to manifest His power and men have still rejected Him. For it is written: “He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.” This scripture can be a very painful one.

The case of blessed Paul was as extraordinary and unique as he himself was. After all, 13 out of 27 books of the New Testament Canon are his own writing. God had great things in mind for this zealous disciple, and this mighty lover could no longer whitstand rejection, thus He sent a great spiritual token of His love, so that Saul’s eyes, by being closed, would be opened.

For others, more simple souls, less is needed. A tiny flower, a humble gift, a whisper suffices to speak of God’s love. But for some, as sorrowful as this may be, not even death on the cross suffices to prove His love.
 
I’ve been reading some of Pope Benedict XVI’s work recently, and he is pretty awesome. 😃

Anyway, he was writing that basically God doesn’t force Himself upon us and draws us to Him instead, and basically is also a good explanation as to why God doesn’t just show Himself to everyone immediately, so as to not force us to love Him etc.

However, what about the appearance to St Paul? It seems to contradict the idea of a God that is gentle and doesn’t force Himself upon us. I mean, sure, Paul still had the free will to reject God, but at the price of probably losing his eyesight…
I don’t think we know for sure that Paul would have lost his sight permanently.

Rather, Paul was an energetic man of action, and God needed to slow him down long enough for him to think about what Jesus had said to him.
 
“Forcing” would mean that God would remove our ability to choose - our ability to freely “will to reject” Him or to accept Him.
God never takes away our free will; that is no doubt what Pope Benedict means in the work you’re reading.
Scripture teaches the opposite of what you are teaching, the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness, so why would he choose it? The natrural like Nicodemus who was not born from above rejected the gospel.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Total Depravity: Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin. The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:14-20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:11). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, “In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?” The answer is, “He cannot. Therefore God must predestine.” Calvinism also maintains that because of our fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God ordains people to eternal life (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; Rom. 9:9-23).
 
Scripture teaches the opposite of what you are teaching, the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness, so why would he choose it? The natrural like Nicodemus who was not born from above rejected the gospel.

1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Total Depravity: Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin. The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:14-20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:11). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, “In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?” The answer is, “He cannot. Therefore God must predestine.” Calvinism also maintains that because of our fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God ordains people to eternal life (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; Rom. 9:9-23).
We can debate total depravity in another thread.

However, can you explain in your own words how any of what you just posted is related to man’s free will?

Thanks.
 
We can debate total depravity in another thread.

However, can you explain in your own words how any of what you just posted is related to man’s free will?

Thanks.
Howdy Randy.

Study as you should, and look up ALL the scriptures I gave, and Lord willing the Holy Spirit will bless you with more discernment. 🙂
 
Howdy Randy.

Study as you should, and look up ALL the scriptures I gave, and Lord willing the Holy Spirit will bless you with more discernment. 🙂
As I recall…Randy asked you question…not advice for discernment…so how about answering Randy’s question…which I am interested in your response:
However, can you explain in your own words how any of what you just posted is related to man’s free will?
Why don’t you imbue us with the wisdom…for starters.
 
Howdy Randy.

Study as you should, and look up ALL the scriptures I gave, and Lord willing the Holy Spirit will bless you with more discernment. 🙂
As I recall…Randy asked you question…not advice for discernment…so how about answering Randy’s question…which I am interested in your response:
However, can you explain in your own words how any of what you just posted is related to man’s free will?
 
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