God existing outside space and time?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Struggling1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Struggling1

Guest
Is the assertion that God exists outside space and time first developed independently or as a direct response to request for empirical evidence? The traditional argument is no evidence exists of God because he’s a non physical being what is the basis for that? How do you even begin to prove something exists that isn’t physical and has no evidence of their existence?
 
This is an interesting question. First of all, I am not convinced that God exists only outside of space and time. The reason I am convinced that God is sometimes inside of space and time is because the Bible tells us that God was observed on earth walking in a garden and further in the New Testament we see that God came down from heaven and became man in space and time about 2018 years ago. Further, correct me if I am wrong on this, but is it not true that in the Eucharist, the Bread and Wine become the Body and Blood and Soul and Divinity of Jesus and therefore we can give divine worship to the Eucharist as it is exposed on the altar. In this way, God is Sacramentally inside our Catholic Churches in space and time.
 
Last edited:
I haven’t studied it particularly, but my first guess would probably be something along the lines of—

God is infinite. Meaning he has no limits. Meaning that he requires no conditions for existence.

People have conditions for existence-- we need things like parents; a certain temperature range; air; nutrition; and no matter how good we are at taking care of ourselves, we’re lucky to make it past 100 years old, and maybe 1 in 1,000 people who make it to 100 years old will continue on to the age of 110.

But God— God’s outside of those things. For a human… right here, you have Struggling1. Over here, you have AINg. Over there, you have Midori. And everywhere else is NOT Struggling1, and everywhere else is NOT AINg, and everywhere else is NOT Midori. 100 years ago, there was no box of space that was Struggling1, or AINg, or Midori. And 100 years from now, it’s very doubtful that any of us will be taking up much physical space at all, and if we do, it definitely won’t be moving around. But God isn’t just limited to taking up this particular box of space at a certain moment in time.

So-- for someone like that-- for someone who exists, and who everyone else depends on for existence-- how can they live inside of a place that they preexist? Space doesn’t exist without God creating it. Time doesn’t exist without God creating it. Therefore, if God preexists space and time, and he transcends space and time, and is not limited by space and time… isn’t it natural to assert that “God exists outside of Space and Time”?
 
Last edited:
I guess you’d start from the concept of God and work from there.

Once we have established the attributes of God, the necessity that He is not limited by space and time becomes evident. Otherwise we would be talking about something other than God.
 
Last edited:
God is infinite. Meaning he has no limits. Meaning that he requires no conditions for existence.
God I said infinite but space-time and all creation exist in God, who transcends it all. You can tell I am a bit of a monist.
 
Is the assertion that God exists outside space and time first developed independently or as a direct response to request for empirical evidence? The traditional argument is no evidence exists of God because he’s a non physical being what is the basis for that? How do you even begin to prove something exists that isn’t physical and has no evidence of their existence?
I always understood to to be God CREATED space and time as we know it. He exists outside of it…He is not subject to the limitations we are.
I think the biggest question is explaining (Like we ever could this side of the veil) Ex nihilo…
 
God created everything. God existed before He created everything. Therefore God exists outside space and time
 
Last edited:
Yes. He is God. He is I Am .

look in your heart, rather then looking outwards
 
Why is proof foolish. The church claims we can come to know God through reason alone why is the standard response when difficult questions come up to disregard that and go with faith alone.
 
That’s what the definition of God is— it’s our word to describe that which is uncreated.

Because we know from experience everything physical and material has a beginning and an end. There is a time before it existed, and there will be a time when it no longer exists. So in order for something to be around before anything else began, there needs to be something that has no beginning and end.

And so we call that something “God”.

Usually, with theists, you run into difficulties trying to define what that God’s role is after he’s created it. Does he wind up the universe like a watch, and then wander off to let it do its thing? Or is he actively involved in what goes on? In what way, and in what extent? Those are the things theists debate about.

For an atheist, who doesn’t believe in God, they’ll say, “The watch (universe) just exists. Because it has to exist. Because it does. But it’s not like it was made or anything.” But the theist says, “It’s a watch. Look at how it works. That’s not how randomness operates. I don’t just leave a pile of stuff on the table, and a gazillion years pass, and it magically assembles itself into a watch. Or, I don’t just leave a giant vacuum of nothingness, and it magically assembles itself into materials that assemble themselves into a watch.”

So, theists need to have an explanation about why the world around them makes sense, where it came from, how it is a gazillion times more complicated than any watch, and why we have such a fraaaaaagile little teeny planet in the massive coldness and emptiness of space, and how it came to be that it teems with living, breathing, thinking life. The only thing that makes sense to us as Catholics is that something greater than the universe decided that it would be nice if it existed, and then went about arranging for it to happen. But atheists say, “Of course it exists. Why wouldn’t it?”
 
40.png
BlueMaxx:
Ex nihilo…
Does nihil include “will”? Can God’s will be called nothing? Certainly all creation including time and space were created with the energy, the force of God’s will.
I am not sure of the Church teaching on that one…but IMHO God’s will cannot be separated from God…He is who He is…

I should have been more clear in my original post (dinner called) but I meant less of our existence in terms of ex nihilo, but God…I know we are taught He always has, was and will be…but it still boggles my mind.

So as far as His will goes, not it cannot I suppose as it always was, is will be?

Is that making any sense?
 
Last edited:
Leaving for diner makes more sense.

But I wasn’t getting at the concept that ex nihil must be referring to material as we know it and not Godself. Which in my mind kind of points to Non-dualism. What seems material to us is like a solidified God’s will.
 
What seems material to us is like a solidified God’s will.
Yes…I think we are in agreement…too many people try to subject God to the reality He has provided for us and not let God be who He is…or where He is for that matter.

I could meditate days on “I am who I am” and still have only the understanding of a newborn…

My favorite being…

The Eternal Word

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.

Peace,

M
 
Last edited:
If he didn’t, it’d mean God was subject to laws higher than himself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top