God exists (Edited Title)

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Churchman25

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What I seriously can’t wrap my head around is how atheists don’t think that there is a God. When they try to disprove the existence of the all powerful being they always come up short. Not to mention when it comes to this earth and the universe all of the laws of Physics atmospheric compounds. They all are just right and if they were a fraction of a percent off humans might not exist. But God caused those elements to be exactly right so that life could thrive on this earth.
On another note there was a person that my dad knew about who actually tried to disprove Gods existence through physics and science and found that God has to exist.
This all leads me to ask the question since everyone is decended from atom and eve who were created by God. He sent his only son to save people from their sins, how can people not recognize this as proof?
 
Faith is a gift. All are given access to the gift, but some choose to never open it.
In an age where everything is tested and the need for proof is paramount, many feel that faith is not necessary. 😦
 
Churchman25 said:
What I seriously can’t wrap my head around is how atheists don’t think that there is a God. When they try to disprove the existence of the all powerful being they always come up short. Not to mention when it comes to this earth and the universe all of the laws of Physics atmospheric compounds. They all are just right and if they were a fraction of a percent off humans might not exist. But God caused those elements to be exactly right so that life could thrive on this earth.
On another note there was a person that my dad knew about who actually tried to disprove Gods existence through physics and science and found that God has to exist.
This all leads me to ask the question since everyone is decended from atom and eve who were created by God. He sent his only son to save people from their sins, how can people not recognize this as proof?
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Someone once tried to use science as an explanation to me to disprove God. So I used philosophy on him to argue for the existence of God. I feel like Dawkinite atheism is like the Westboro Baptist Church of atheism. One thing I have heard from these folks is “if God is all loving, why does he allow evil”? My argument to them is “how do you even know what evil is”? And then “why does God allow good”?
 
Oneofthewomen said:
Faith is a gift. All are given access to the gift, but some choose to never open it.
In an age where everything is tested and the need for proof is paramount, many feel that faith is not necessary. 😦
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One does not need faith to believe in the existence of God. Reason itself tells us that there has to be a God. Faith tells us other things that reason does not, such as the Trinity, the Incarnation, Redemption, etc.

But as for the mere existence of God, this is supported by reason alone. On another hypothetical thread, I stated that if Jesus was irrefutably found dead, thereby knocking Christianity down for good, I would be forced to live by natural and civil law, but cannot become atheist, because it would be contrary to reason to disbelieve that God exists.

This is why I have a hard time believing people can be “invincibly ignorant” atheists with sound mind, since reason is granted all of us. Perhaps there are some, but most non-religious people I’ve met believe a God exists, even if they don’t believe anything else required by faith. To be hardcore atheist must mean a particular hardness of heart that blocks even reason.
 
Churchman25 said:
What I seriously can’t wrap my head around is how atheists don’t think that there is a God. When they try to disprove the existence of the all powerful being they always come up short. Not to mention when it comes to this earth and the universe all of the laws of Physics atmospheric compounds. They all are just right and if they were a fraction of a percent off humans might not exist. But God caused those elements to be exactly right so that life could thrive on this earth.
On another note there was a person that my dad knew about who actually tried to disprove Gods existence through physics and science and found that God has to exist.
This all leads me to ask the question since everyone is decended from atom and eve who were created by God. He sent his only son to save people from their sins, how can people not recognize this as proof?
Click to expand...
I believe in God completely and accept Christ as my Lord and King. But… there have been times in my life that I circled the black hole of atheism and knew that I could not face the non existence of a Creator. Saint Therese of Lisieux wrote that she “sat” at the table with atheists. She knew their pain. Saint Therese helped me understand how to hold on to faith even as doubts arise.

I can’t prove that God exists but I reject the idea that God does not exist. I turn my back on the arguments for His non-existence. These arguments only lead to despair. I am honest with God and I call out to Him, “I believe. Help, Thou, my unbelief” and He always answers “I Am that I Am.”
 
I think some people are threatened by the idea of something being more powerful than them. They like to think of themselves as having total control of their own destiny subject to limitations solely of their own making.

It seems like there is usually an underpinning of anger that factors in.

It is sad to see people who think there is nothing beyond this life, and who think they will end up as dust in the wind.
 
I obviously believe and know that there is a God, but I can sympathize for people who have never heard of him and worship their own Gods whom they believe are real. Whom which are not, and then someone tries preaching them the Gospel. They might reject it because its going against what they have been brought up in all of there lives.

Its Just like The God we worship now what if all americans were hypothetically brought up on false Gods whom we believed were real. In Which they were not would we still accept the Gospels?
 
Well on the idea of intelligent design I would say this, It’s not surprising that all that exists is all that is allowed to exist, or in other you are assuming that life would always have the requirements that humans have for life and aren’t we lucky that we live on the one planet that meets those requirements when it is more likely that the only life that could form on earth would meet these requirements. I once read that this argument is like a plant that grew out of a crack in the concrete looking around and saying that the sidewalk must have been designed with the plant in mind because while it couldn’t grow anywhere else on the sidewalk but this one crack but this crack was the perfect size for this plant to fit through. And on just the general idea of not believing in god I personally have not found any of the evidence for god to be convincing.
 
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Churchman25:
What I seriously can’t wrap my head around is how atheists don’t think that there is a God. When they try to disprove the existence of the all powerful being they always come up short.
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Many, perhaps even most atheists, don’t accept that there is convincing proof that God does not exist. But, and this is the critical thing, they also do not accept that there is convincing proof that God does exist.

You mentioned the so-called fine-tuning argument, the Old Testament story of Adam & Eve, and the New Testament account of the life of Jesus as ‘proof’ of God’s existence. To an atheist, none of these are convincing proof of anything.
 
Churchman25 said:
What I seriously can’t wrap my head around is how atheists don’t think that there is a God. When they try to disprove the existence of the all powerful being they always come up short.
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Allah is (we are told) an all-powerful being. Can you disprove the existence of Allah? Brahman is an all-powerful being. Can you disprove the existence of Brahman? Akal Purakh (the Sikh God) is an all-powerful being. Can you disprove the existence of Akal Purakh?

There are a great many gods, some of them claimed to be all powerful. People, Christians included, do not believe in all of these Gods. You disbelieve in the great majority of gods that atheists do not believe in. On that you agree with the atheists.

Most arguments for the existence of the Christian God also apply to the other all-powerful Gods who created the universe. How can we exist if Brahman had not fine-tuned the universe to suit us?

$0.02

rossum
 
rossum said:
Allah is (we are told) an all-powerful being. Can you disprove the existence of Allah? Brahman is an all-powerful being. Can you disprove the existence of Brahman? Akal Purakh (the Sikh God) is an all-powerful being. Can you disprove the existence of Akal Purakh?

There are a great many gods, some of them claimed to be all powerful. People, Christians included, do not believe in all of these Gods. You disbelieve in the great majority of gods that atheists do not believe in. On that you agree with the atheists.

Most arguments for the existence of the Christian God also apply to the other all-powerful Gods who created the universe. How can we exist if Brahman had not fine-tuned the universe to suit us?

$0.02

rossum
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This is not exactly correct.

We disagree with atheists that A god exists, and we disagree with polytheists that multiple gods exist.

However, if you want to compare Yahweh with Allah or Brahman, etc., then we are first going to need to discuss whether ONE single god created everything that exists or not.

After that, we’re just arguing over his name and attributes.
 
Randy_Carson said:
then we are first going to need to discuss whether ONE single god created everything that exists or not.
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That is actually a very easy question to answer:
  1. Does God exist?
  2. Did God create himself?
So, God did not create everything that exists.

A better question is whether God created everything that exists, except Him/Her/Itself.
After that, we’re just arguing over his name and attributes.
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There are some Christians who will tell me that Allah does not exist. I suspect that it is a more complex question than you imply here.

rossum
 
rossum said:
That is actually a very easy question to answer:
  1. Does God exist?
  2. Did God create himself?
So, God did not create everything that exists.

A better question is whether God created everything that exists, except Him/Her/Itself.

There are some Christians who will tell me that Allah does not exist. I suspect that it is a more complex question than you imply here.

rossum
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Sheesh. Yes, rossum, we must ask whether God created everything in the material universe that began to exist. :rolleyes:

And if Christians tell you that Allah does not exist, then you are dealing with ignorant Christians. :sad_yes:

Jews, Christians and Atheists are talking about the same God. They give him different names and attributes, but He is one.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Sheesh. Yes, rossum, we must ask whether God created everything in the material universe that began to exist.
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If you want to state your question accurately then you do. Do angels exist? Are angels created? Do angels form part of the material universe?

I suggest you think through your questions more carefully.
And if Christians tell you that Allah does not exist, then you are dealing with ignorant Christians.
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And no doubt those Christians who tell me that will tell me the same thing about Christians who say that Allah is a misinterpreted version of the Abrahamic God. My local Rabbi tells me the same thing about the Christian God.
Jews, Christians and Atheists are talking about the same God. They give him different names and attributes, but He is one.
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Not atheists. They talk about a great many gods (and goddesses) not just one.

rossum
 
rossum said:
If you want to state your question accurately then you do. Do angels exist? Are angels created? Do angels form part of the material universe?

I suggest you think through your questions more carefully.
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My apologies for any lack of clarity.
And no doubt those Christians who tell me that will tell me the same thing about Christians who say that Allah is a misinterpreted version of the Abrahamic God. My local Rabbi tells me the same thing about the Christian God.
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This is why you are wise to frequent a Catholic forum. God first covenanted Himself with the Jews and, in the fulness of time, with the Christians who began to refer to themselves as belonging to the Catholic Church.

If you adhere closely to Catholic theology, you will not err in your understanding. Anything less is time wasted.
Not atheists. They talk about a great many gods (and goddesses) not just one.
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rossum
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Heh…my bad. That supposed to read “Jews, Christians and Muslims are all speaking of the same god.”

My brain got ahead of my fingers.
 
porthos11 said:
One does not need faith to believe in the existence of God. Reason itself tells us that there has to be a God. Faith tells us other things that reason does not, such as the Trinity, the Incarnation, Redemption, etc.

But as for the mere existence of God, this is supported by reason alone. **On another hypothetical thread, I stated that if Jesus was irrefutably found dead, thereby knocking Christianity down for good, I would be forced to live by natural and civil law, **but cannot become atheist, because it would be contrary to reason to disbelieve that God exists.

This is why I have a hard time believing people can be “invincibly ignorant” atheists with sound mind, since reason is granted all of us. Perhaps there are some, but most non-religious people I’ve met believe a God exists, even if they don’t believe anything else required by faith. To be hardcore atheist must mean a particular hardness of heart that blocks even reason.
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Wouldn’t going Jewish make the most sense at that hypothetical point?
 
I’ll be a tad snarky. This thread makes a positive statement of “God exists”. My response is Prove It Please.
 
NM505StKate said:
I’ll be a tad snarky. This thread makes a positive statement of “God exists”. My response is Prove It Please.
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What type of evidence are you willing to accept?

I’d argue for the historical reliability of the accounts of Jesus’ resurrection and work back from there to His claims for being God.

Do you really require that? Or were you playing “devil’s advocate”? 😛
 
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