God gave us Reason, not Religion

[AgnosTheist]

AT: Your sig is a puzzle to me. (God gave us reason, not religion). By its logic, “reason” and “religion” appear to be mutually exclusive, in that you claim He gave us ‘reason’ (not) “religion”, thereby implying that religion is not only not “God-given” but by definition is ‘unreasonable’, or that “reason” is somehow ‘greater’ than “religion” (without giving nuanced or thorough definitions or either word).

Its not really mutually exclusive. Religion is not always unreasonable, though on many cases it has beliefs that can be quite irrational. I’m sure everyone would agree that each one of us possess the gift of reasoning. But since everyone disagrees on which religion is true, then its safe to say that God didnt really give a religion to everyone. So God only gave us a talent for figuring things out, not a system of instructions that already figured things out. Religion is merely a personal point of view. Not a fact for everyone.

 

[bilop]

Its not really mutually exclusive. Religion is not always unreasonable, though on many cases it has beliefs that can be quite irrational. I’m sure everyone would agree that each one of us possess the gift of reasoning. But since everyone disagrees on which religion is true, then its safe to say that God didnt really give a religion to everyone. So God only gave us a talent for figuring things out, not a system of instructions that already figured things out. Religion is merely a personal point of view. Not a fact for everyone.

AgnosTheist, have you ever read any Aquinas?

He starts from the premise that almost everything about God and Christianity can be derived from reason. If fact, the only three things he believes must be taken on faith are the Incarnation, the Resurrection and the Trinity.

God Bless

 

[Mannyfit75]

Its not really mutually exclusive. Religion is not always unreasonable, though on many cases it has beliefs that can be quite irrational. I’m sure everyone would agree that each one of us possess the gift of reasoning. But since everyone disagrees on which religion is true, then its safe to say that God didnt really give a religion to everyone. So God only gave us a talent for figuring things out, not a system of instructions that already figured things out. Religion is merely a personal point of view. Not a fact for everyone.

How would you catagorize religious groups like Jews, Muslims, and Christians? They would be called religion.

When you fill out a form. "What is your religion? You either put one of the montheistic faiths, polytheistic faith, or none at all.

 

[elvisman]

Its not really mutually exclusive. Religion is not always unreasonable, though on many cases it has beliefs that can be quite irrational. I’m sure everyone would agree that each one of us possess the gift of reasoning. But since everyone disagrees on which religion is true, then its safe to say that God didnt really give a religion to everyone. So God only gave us a talent for figuring things out, not a system of instructions that already figured things out. Religion is merely a personal point of view. Not a fact for everyone.

I would argue the point that not everyone has the ability - or talent, as you say - to reason or to be reasonable.
Relativists would argure that your reasoning is your reality - your “personal point of view”, therefore it is not a talent.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I would argue the point that not everyone has the ability - or talent, as you say - to reason or to be reasonable.

what do you mean? even retards could reason. though not as well as a normal guy.

 

[elvisman]

what do you mean? even retards could reason. though not as well as a normal guy.

RETARDS? Is that how you would issue a response in a conversation about the ability to reason? That statement sounds like it was spewed from the mouth of an ignoramus - not a person with even a modicum of intellect.
People who are mentally retarded or mentally challenged are not to be referred to as “retards”.

---

 

[Image_of_God]

I sum it up in this way:

Rationality without faith is irrational and faith without rationality is faithless.

You’ll notice that it takes faith to believe that religion is simply a point of view and not binding on everyone—just as it takes faith to believe that a certain religion is true. You are not certain that religion is not true and there is no proof. But we have ours, faith.

I hope I don’t sound arrogant. That’s not my intention.

 

[mark_a]

Religion is merely a personal point of view. Not a fact for everyone.

Then there is no truth.

If one could separate morals from faith, your point would be arguable.

But it can’t be done.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Did give us a priesthood?

If not, then maybe you have a point.

If so, then what’s the point of a presthood without a religion?

 

[AgnosTheist]

Rationality without faith is irrational and faith without rationality is faithless.

oh I definitely agree. But this is about religion, not faith. If you will notice, I do have faith. Thats why I believe in God.

You’ll notice that it takes faith to believe that religion is simply a point of view and not binding on everyone—just as it takes faith to believe that a certain religion is true. You are not certain that religion is not true and there is no proof. But we have ours, faith.

I am fairly certain that some religions are 100% bogus. Like Scientology & Islam. What do you think?

I hope I don’t sound arrogant. That’s not my intention.

 

[Image_of_God]

oh I definitely agree. But this is about religion, not faith. If you will notice, I do have faith. Thats why I believe in God.

I am fairly certain that some religions are 100% bogus. Like Scientology & Islam. What do you think?

Well, they are not entirely bogus, because if they were then the things they share with other religions would make those religions bogus as well. Although I do think Scientology is somewhat strange.

In regard to faith that your belief that religion is only a personal view or that God gave religion to only certain people, is your own personal view. There is no certainty that anything is for anyone except on faith. I do agree that religions are not equal…I believe that Christianity is greater, but to say that it is only a personal view is a personal view itself.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Religion is not always unreasonable, though on many cases it has beliefs that can be quite irrational.

Madness coming from God is so much more beautiful than wisdom from mankind. (Plato - Phaedrus)

But since everyone disagrees on which religion is true, then its safe to say that God didnt really give a religion to everyone.

God has written His law on our hearts. It is not His fault if many don’t pay any attention to it.

 

[elvisman]

But since everyone disagrees on which religion is true, then its safe to say that God didnt really give a religion to everyone.

Wrong again, Agnos.

---

Matt 28:19-20
"Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

 

[Deconi]

The problem is that God DID give us a religion!

Otherwise, we would not have a belief IN Him!

Given what man has come up with THROUGH reasoning, it is fortunate that He also supplied REASON so the faithful can determine WHICH is the correct one.

 

[cristian84]

Its not really mutually exclusive. Religion is not always unreasonable, though on many cases it has beliefs that can be quite irrational. I’m sure everyone would agree that each one of us possess the gift of reasoning. But since everyone disagrees on which religion is true, then its safe to say that God didnt really give a religion to everyone. So God only gave us a talent for figuring things out, not a system of instructions that already figured things out. Religion is merely a personal point of view. Not a fact for everyone.

It also stands to reason that if a fact is a definate truth such as 2+2=4. than that truth, is true for everyone. So If there is a true religion, it is impossible as you say that “it is not a fact for everyone”. Because regardless of belief the fact would remain true none the less.

 

[De_Maria]

Its not really mutually exclusive.

God is the reason for religion.

Religion is not always unreasonable

The Catholic faith is never unreasonable. It is the fullness of Truth and reveals the Word of God, true wisdom.

though on many cases it has beliefs that can be quite irrational.

Beliefs that seem irrational because they are super rational and are discerned only by a Spiritual person. That is, a person steeped in the Spirit of God.

%between%Colossians 1
9 Therefore we also, from the day that we heard it, cease not to pray for you, and to beg that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will, in all wisdom, and spiritual understanding:

I’m sure everyone would agree that each one of us possess the gift of reasoning.

I would.

But since everyone disagrees

Not everyone.

on which religion is true, then its safe to say that God didnt really give a religion to everyone.

False logic. God gave everyone the true faith, but Adam and Eve failed to pass it on successfully. That is why Cain killed Abel.

So God only gave us a talent for figuring things out,

Nope. God gave Adam and Eve the talent for worship. In fact, they were united to God in such a way that their state of being is called Original Holiness and Justice. It is only one step away from being in the Beatific Vision, otherwise known as Heaven. It is such a wonderful situation that it is likened to a Garden and to Paradise.

If you understand our Faith, you know that Adam or “the Man” was given the task or the work of tilling and keeping the Garden. This tilling and keeping of the Garden, is the same task which Priests have in the Temple of God. And therefore, the Liturgy, the Work of Man, is to worship God.

In other words, your reason for being is to worship God.

not a system of instructions that already figured things out. Religion is merely a personal point of view. Not a fact for everyone.

No, religion is our reason for being. Your reasoning ability is for you to discern which is the True Religion which God established on this earth.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Wollie]

your logic is faulty.

to say that because all men have not chosen the same religion means that G-d has not given us a true religion is false logic.

Its the same as saying that I give my child and apple and because he chooses an orange I must have never given him an apple in the first place.

We must be careful to not create G-d. We are the created not the Creator.

You are right G-d did give us logic with which to discern Truth but he also gave us the free will to choose it.

Peace in Christ.
~Collin

 

[Peregrino]

your logic is faulty.

to say that because all men have not chosen the same religion means that G-d has not given us a true religion is false logic.

Its the same as saying that I give my child and apple and because he chooses an orange I must have never given him an apple in the first place.

We must be careful to not create G-d. We are the created not the Creator.

You are right G-d did give us logic with which to discern Truth but he also gave us the free will to choose it.

Peace in Christ.
~Collin

The assumption that there is a “true” religion amongst the plethora of religions in the world is faulty. It could equally be true that God has not given us a true religion yet…

There is no way to prove that one’s religion is the “true” religion, though that has not and will not stop people from killing each other over the priority claim…

Beliefs that seem irrational because they are super rational and are discerned only by a Spiritual person. That is, a person steeped in the Spirit of God.

Boy isn’t that convenient…I wonder who or what organization gets to decide who a really “spiritual person” is…

 

[silentdeb]

I sum it up in this way:

Rationality without faith is irrational and faith without rationality is faithless.

You’ll notice that it takes faith to believe that religion is simply a point of view and not binding on everyone—just as it takes faith to believe that a certain religion is true. You are not certain that religion is not true and there is no proof. But we have ours, faith.

I hope I don’t sound arrogant. That’s not my intention.

I didn’t think that was arrogant at all … I liked it a lot. Thank you!

 

[Bishopite]

Its not really mutually exclusive. Religion is not always unreasonable, though on many cases it has beliefs that can be quite irrational. I’m sure everyone would agree that each one of us possess the gift of reasoning. But since everyone disagrees on which religion is true, then its safe to say that God didnt really give a religion to everyone. So God only gave us a talent for figuring things out, not a system of instructions that already figured things out. Religion is merely a personal point of view. Not a fact for everyone.

God gave us the reason to understand and work through what is true religion. And He gives us grace in order to seek and find that true religion, which is Christianity. Religion is not merely a point of view but a fact, that’s why tribes in the middle of nowhere on desserted Islands, or jungles far far away from civilization who have never heard of “religion” nor of any sort of diety, eventually make falsely, for themselves something to worship a false god. They always do this, since inherently they know (Rom 2:14-16) what is written in their hearts, right from wrong AND know that there is something above them that transcendes them that is beyond them; that’s why these tribes always make gods for themselves even though no one has lead them nor showed them anything about religion. Reason helps us weed through what religion is truth and hands down Christianity is superior in truth to ALL other religions. Christianity is the only religion that has a man (Jesus) who not only claimed to be God but proved it by, His miracles, dying on a cross for us and resurrecting on the third day, appearing to more than 500 people and is a major focus in the world since His incarnation.