God has not a body...... or does He?

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Latin_Catholic_1

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Hi!

I already sent my Q to Ask an Apologist but no answer was given so maybe I’ll have better luck in here.

Mormons believe God has a physical body, but according to Scripture (Jn. 4,24) God is pure Spirit, so He does not.

J.Ws believe God has a “spiritual body” according to 1Cor. 15,44 but then again, the Church says that isn’t so.

Angels in fact have “a spiritual body” and can appear as material beings (or so I’ve heard) but this is not God’s case because He is infinite.

But the problem I have** is the Church-approved Eugenia Ravasio apparition.**

It is said that God The Father appeared to her with a body, and even told her* to sit next to Him*.

How can this be?

Aren’t we supposed to believe that Jesus is the only Divine Person who has appeared to us with human shape?

So, how these Apparitions fit in the Church’s Doctrine ?*

For more info on these apparitions you can visit:

circleofprayer.com/the-father-speaks-Mother-Eugenia.html
  • the same webpage contains a Bishop’s commentary and refers something of a thomistic distinction between “apparition” and “mission” that seems to be the explanation for everything, but again, I don’t understand what that is about. You can read that in here: ttp://www.circleofprayer.com/the-father-speaks-testimony.html
 
other than her own website, I can find no independent verification of this apparition. I never heard of it before so I can’t comment. Until I see some independent verification that this is an approved apparition and message I have no comment and no further interest.

I would note that in the OT God frequently is spoken of in anthropomorphic terms as a literary device: Moses looks on the face of God, God’s right hand, eye of God etc.
 
I do not believe that God has a body, but scripture does use figurative language like “right hand of God” When stephen was stoned to death around Acts 8, he saw what? On the mountian Moses saw what? In Daniel, they saw what writing on the wall? I forget who was it that wrestled with God?

Maybe God, can choose to make appearances in a form that we can relate to.
 
I would posit that God has a physical body…Our Lord Jesus Christ. That was one of the magnificent signs of His love in that he would become incarnate to dwell among us. Now Christ is only one element of the Trinity. God the father is spirit as is the Holy Spirit. On the other hand, hey God is God, and if He wants to take on a physical nature that’s within His depth. 🙂
 
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puzzleannie:
other than her own website, I can find no independent verification of this apparition. I never heard of it before so I can’t comment. Until I see some independent verification that this is an approved apparition and message I have no comment and no further interest.
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I first heard of the Ravasio Apparitions by a Priest who gave us a little card with the (revealed) prayer to God the Father, and he told us the Apparitions were Church-approved.

Since then, I’ve said the prayer frequently, but it was not until I read this that I learned more about it.

Of course, because they are indeed Church-approved I believe they’re true, but I still don’t know how they fit in the Doctrine.
 
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Latin_Catholic:
I first heard of the Ravasio Apparitions by a Priest who gave us a little card with the (revealed) prayer to God the Father, and he told us the Apparitions were Church-approved.

Since then, I’ve said the prayer frequently, but it was not until I read this that I learned more about it.

Of course, because they are indeed Church-approved I believe they’re true, but I still don’t know how they fit in the Doctrine.
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I don’t understand what this has to do with God having a body or not!!
 
According to 1Jn. 4,12, no one has ever seen God.

When the people saw Christ, they really saw a human being because Christ is true God but also true Man so there is no contradiction there.

But here, God the Father is not true man,* only true God,* so how could we interpret 1Jn. 4,12 in the light of the Ravasio Apparitions?.

P.S. I know the Bible says Moses “saw God” but I think it has always been understood as: *“Moses realized God was with him” *and when Moses saw God’s back I believe it means: “Moses saw the glory of God in Creation”, right? So none has ever said Moses saw God in thesame way mother Eugenia says she saw Him (in a physical human way)
 
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thistle:
I don’t understand what this has to do with God having a body or not!!
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If what mother Eugenia says is true (and it is!) then God the Father had a body, at least for sometime during the year 1932.

So, how can we seriously tell mormons they’re crazy for believing God the Father has a body, if we as catholics believe He indeed had one (at least for a brief period of time) ?
 
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StCsDavid:
On the other hand, hey God is God, and if He wants to take on a physical nature that’s within His depth. 🙂
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I know God is God and that there’s nothing impossible to Him, but that answer does not satisfy me because we christian-catholics believe the Bible is the Word of God (according to the dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum), and so there seems to be a contradiction between 1Jn. 4,12 and this Church-approved God the Father Apparitions.
 
There is a difference in private revelation and public revelation (the Bible) and how the Church considers both. Would you expect the Chruch to change its doctrine based on a private revelation?
 
Truth to be told, I’ve been thinking of an answer to the “Ravasio-1Jn.4,12” issue, but it’s somewhat cheap:

The Bible says:

*1Jn. 4

12 No one has ever seen God*

It’s true St. John wrote at the time no one ever saw God* till that time*, but that does not mean no one will ever see Him…

What do you think?

Is that solution to the problem too cheap or it works?
 
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StCsDavid:
There is a difference in private revelation and public revelation (the Bible) and how the Church considers both. Would you expect the Chruch to change its doctrine based on a private revelation?
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Of course not, but all the Apparitions –in order to be Church-approved– must not oppose what Public Revelation teaches, so we know the theologians saw all these problems and eventually found a way to overcome the issues.

What I don’t know is what exactly those reasons are (how you can reconcile 1Jn. 4,12 with these).

If anyone knows where I can find them, that’d be great help (like I said, I’ve been thinking on solutions of my own, but they’re not very good).
 
Angels are also spirit and they can take on a human looking body.

Deuteronomy 5:24
And you said, "The LORD our God has shown us his glory and his majesty, and we have heard his voice from the fire. Today we have seen that a man can live even if God speaks with him.

Genesis 32:30
So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”

Genesis 33:10
“No, please!” said Jacob. "If I have found favor in your eyes, accept this gift from me. For to see your face is like seeing the face of God, now that you have received me favorably.

Exodus 3:6
Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

Exodus 33:11The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.

see also,
Genesis 32:30, Exodus 33:11, Isaiah 6:1 and Job 42:5

basically, I think I John 4 has a deeper meaning than the proof phrase being quoted. May I suggest, you read I John 4 in different translations, and mediate on it for a few days to see what it is trying to convey.
 
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Latin_Catholic:
I first heard of the Ravasio Apparitions by a Priest who gave us a little card with the (revealed) prayer to God the Father, and he told us the Apparitions were Church-approved.

Since then, I’ve said the prayer frequently, but it was not until I read this that I learned more about it.

Of course, because they are indeed Church-approved I believe they’re true, but I still don’t know how they fit in the Doctrine.
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the link is to another site of an apostolate, one I have never heard of but that doesn’t mean anything, but it is not a link to a Vatican source or to the official website of the bishop of her diocese giving approval of the apparitions, therefore of no value in discerning the apparitions and the message.
 
Gen 18

This chapter says that three men appear before Abraham. One of these three is the LORD. Two are the angels which then head into Sodom to rescue Lot at Abraham’s request.

These are actual men. Abraham offers to wash their feet and let them rest.

Now, I guess it could be that all three men are simply angels. (The next chapter seems to show that two of them were). However, Abraham bows down before these people. Angels do not allow people to worship them…

On that point, I would point out Joshua 5:15. Joshua fell down and worshipped the man that appeared to him. The man did not stop him. He was the captain of the hosts of the LORD. Jesus is seen as the commander of the angelic hosts in Revelation.

This is just conjecture, but someone please explain to me why Joshua would be allowed to worship a man if that man wasn’t holy.
 
Exodus 3 comes to mind

Exodus 3
Moses and the Burning Bush
1 Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the far side of the desert and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. 2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3 So Moses thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up.”
4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!”
And Moses said, “Here I am.”

5 “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” 6 Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

7 The LORD said, “I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. 8 So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey—the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 9 And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them. 10 So now, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt.”

11 But Moses said to God, “Who am I, that I should go to Pharaoh and bring the Israelites out of Egypt?”

12 And God said, “I will be with you. And this will be the sign to you that it is I who have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you [a] will worship God on this mountain.”

13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”

14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . ** This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ "

15 God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, [c] the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.

16 "Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt. 17 And I have promised to bring you up out of your misery in Egypt into the land of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—a land flowing with milk and honey.’**
 
From the searches I have done on the web the Ravasio apparitions are NOT Church approved.
 
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