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Melkite_Sword
Guest
hey guys just wondering. would you say God has authority over Hell? I know that Hell is the place where God is not present, but I also know that God has authority over everything.
thanks
thanks
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Prophesy
Guest
I’m pretty sure God is still present in Hell (through definition of omnipresence). And if God is present He’s certainly Lord over it. I know Fr. Robert Barron talks about Hell as a place where God’s presence is overbearing.hey guys just wondering. would you say God has authority over Hell? I know that Hell is the place where God is not present, but I also know that God has authority over everything.
thanks
-Prophesy
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Little_One0307
Guest
Yep he is present as he is to all created things as their sustainer. And yes God has authority over it. One is sent to Hell by their own free will and God honors that free will by well, allowing you to go where you wished to send yourself. And as he wishes to repect your free will, he will keep you there and you are there for all eternity. To me the fact that it is an eternal duration, shows me that God is in authority, it is he who passes sentence and sees it executed based on what we choose in this life.
What a scary reality. By the grace of God, I don’t want to find out this answer to this question in a personal manner.
God Bless.
M
Melkite_Sword
Guest
hmm. ok thanks for your answers guys, much appreciated. another question though. is the devil currently in hell? because the book of revelation tells us that he will be thrown into hell at a future time.
Given this, it would seem unlikely.
But I do not know for certain and am certainly not going to go looking for him.
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Prophesy
Guest
Jesus talks about Lucifer falling from Heaven like a bolt of lightning. I think that he would be considered to be in Hell, but certainly another member of it. He has no power unless what is given to him from above.
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Aelred_Minor
Guest
Considering Hell as a state of eternal separation from God, the Devil is certainly already there and will continue to be for all eternity.
However, one may also conceive of Hell as the place where the bodies of the reprobate will be after the resurrection. Whether such a place alreadly exists or not (I actually have a fun speculation about universe-splitting after the Second Coming, but let’s not get into that), it is probably safe to say no resurrected reprobate individuals are there now. Being a pure spirit, Satan would never be there in an ordinary physical sense anyway.
Pure spirits, not having physical bodies, can be said to be present in the material world only in the sense that they may act upon the physical world, and so may be said to be “present” where they are active. Currently, Satan and the other demons are active in our world, hence they “prowl about the world”. After the Second Coming though they won’t be able to accomplish anything outside of the realm of the damned, so presumably their activity will be limited to that place (I cannot imagine a prideful spiritual being messing around with matter knowing he will accomplish absolutely nothing thereby).
Thus when we ask that Satan and all evil spirits be “cast into hell” in the Prayer to St. Michael, what we mean is not that they be damned (they already have been, and if they had not been it would be uncharitable to wish it on them), but that they be prevented from acting in this world of ours.
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PJM
Guest
EVERY Created THING if of God. THUS everything is under the power and ditrction of God. INCLUDING Hell and Mr. satan himself.thanks
God Bless,
Pat
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randirhoades
Guest
Beloved Friends,
I would imagine God keeps an eye out on Hell but His presence will not be there for help if you ask or whatever.
**
You guys made me laugh when you said, “What a scary reality. By the grace of God, I don’t want to find out this answer to this question in a personal manner.” And more.** And along with you guys I say, “ME TOO!”
Love ya’ll,
Sheila
I would imagine God keeps an eye out on Hell but His presence will not be there for help if you ask or whatever.
**
You guys made me laugh when you said, “What a scary reality. By the grace of God, I don’t want to find out this answer to this question in a personal manner.” And more.** And along with you guys I say, “ME TOO!”
Love ya’ll,
Sheila
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Little_One0307
Guest
I’ll be praying we both find out the other alternative by the grace of God.
The more I think of how awful it is without being in God’s presence, he Who made me out of love for love and in love for the rest of eternity, it’s like my mind and heart shrivel up inside and die. Thank God for the Sacrament of Reconcilliation.
God Bless.
J
John_Russell_Jr
Guest
My dear friend,hey guys just wondering. would you say God has authority over Hell? I know that Hell is the place where God is not present, but I also know that God has authority over everything.
thanks
Great question , does he have authority ? God is in hell and in a sense God has become hell , in that it is Gods will I call the equilibrium of God which causes the spiritual fie of hell for just one thing. But God has complete authority over hell and all in it. And this authority can allow God to change and blot out hell even. The way this might work is here in our delusion which is the opposite of reality or loss of the garden of eden which is our universe and all in it hell is foreve and all eternity , but when we get reality back as I’m sure we must then hell would cease to exist as evil cannot exist in reality ,it can only exist outside reality and thus is not really real. That’s my thoughts.
God bless and Love you
John
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Little_One0307
Guest
John,My dear friend,
Great question , does he have authority ? God is in hell and in a sense God has become hell , in that it is Gods will I call the equilibrium of God which causes the spiritual fie of hell for just one thing. But God has complete authority over hell and all in it. And this authority can allow God to change and blot out hell even. The way this might work is here in our delusion which is the opposite of reality or loss of the garden of eden which is our universe and all in it hell is foreve and all eternity , but when we get reality back as I’m sure we must then hell would cease to exist as evil cannot exist in reality ,it can only exist outside reality and thus is not really real. That’s my thoughts.
God bless and Love you
John
I read your post and have a few questions. How is God in hell? If God is in hell, then hell would not be hell. Do you mean that God sustains Hell, because if you do, then you are correct.
Second question, how could Pure Love, Pure Holiness, Pure Goodness, in a sense become Hell? I don’t quite understand how you are tying in the Will of God in this, can you explain?
IF God changed or got rid of Hell, he would no longer be a respecter of our Free Wills. His Divine Justice would become meaningless. It is becuase of His Justice and Mercy that there is a Hell.
I am not sure if I am following your thoughts, so I ask this question before I post anything else, do you believe Hell is eternal?
God Bless.
J
John_Russell_Jr
Guest
John,
I read your post and have a few questions. How is God in hell? If God is in hell, then hell would not be hell. Do you mean that God sustains Hell, because if you do, then you are correct.
My dear friend , first : what I say is a bit different I know but when understood fully does not contradict or conflict with the catholic faith at all. Understand this please. I can’t explain it all fully quickly. There’s an awful lot to what I say. God must be omnipresent, present everywhere. It’s His nature. Nothing / ness cannot exist either. Hell is nothing / ness an can only exist in this elusion or non - reality or the opposite of reality having lost heaven for the angels and the garden of eden for us. The garen of eden is our entire universe and all in it but it’s been turned upside down because evil cannot exist. Even God is the opposite of reality in our world for now evidenced by God doing evil even to Himself in Jesus , God cannot do evil at all in reality. Only outsie of reality can God do evil , and that is the main reason we lost reality but also evil cannot exist as then nothing / ness would exist and that would lead to Gods demise I’m fraid. We will get reality back eventually though.
Second question, how could Pure Love, Pure Holiness, Pure Goodness, in a sense become Hell? I don’t quite understand how you are tying in the Will of God in this, can you explain?
As said even God is the opposite of reality here so He cando evil without evil really existing. But you are right , God cannot do evil , hence we all must get reality back eventually where evil does ot exist at all.
IF God changed or got rid of Hell, he would no longer be a respecter of our Free Wills. His Divine Justice would become meaningless. It is becuase of His Justice and Mercy that there is a Hell.
I have another thread talking about do man and angels , demons really have free will , going on this philosophy forum right now that is looking into this. Feel free to look and ontribute if you want.
I am not sure if I am following your thoughts, so I ask this question before I post anything else, do you believe Hell is eternal?
I believe hell is eternal and forever in the delusion where in , but when we get reality back evil and hell cannot exist , so all will be ok , demons restored as angels , andus back in the garden of eden , and on we will go. I know it sounds heretical but it isn’t at all. I can’t explain it all quickly in a chat room. I’m happy to discuss it as problem solving in a search for truth , but no arguing and fighting if you want to talk on it. I really can’t argue , i can just talk. Hope you don’t mind this if you want to talk about it. It’s just me , i can’t help it at all.
God bless and Love you
John
God Bless.
L
Little_One0307
Guest
Thanks for explaining some stuff to me. Wow that makes me want to ask more questions. I will head over to the philosophy section to see that.
I guess what I am confused on is your use of opposite of reality and such. I just am unfamiliar with it all. I do not mean to argue and that is not my intention, but I am trying to make it fit in with the Metaphysics and Criteriology.
So what I guess I am asking, any basic books that expound on what you are saying. I do realize that this is a complex discussion, and may have to take it slow. But I am definetly interested in what you have to say.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my thread.
I do like it that the angels and demons have free will, though I will do some researching on that. Which if this happens, then it makes things a great deal more interesting and much more confusing than what they were.
God Bless.
I guess what I am confused on is your use of opposite of reality and such. I just am unfamiliar with it all. I do not mean to argue and that is not my intention, but I am trying to make it fit in with the Metaphysics and Criteriology.
So what I guess I am asking, any basic books that expound on what you are saying. I do realize that this is a complex discussion, and may have to take it slow. But I am definetly interested in what you have to say.
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my thread.
I do like it that the angels and demons have free will, though I will do some researching on that. Which if this happens, then it makes things a great deal more interesting and much more confusing than what they were.
God Bless.
J
John_Russell_Jr
Guest
My dear friend,
I was not saying your arguing etc I was just letting yo know I can’t engage in it as so many go that way. The work is mostly my own ,so can’t quote anyone. Another post i just did that may help with the questions is below. I copie it for you. I’m off for a while soon but will be back if you want to talk.
My dear friend ,
Q. Why did God create our universe and us ?
It’s a good question. My own thoughs on this in brief are : using the concept of something and nothing , that God is something and not nothing as nothing cannot exist , if nothing exists then nothing is no longer nothing but having existence it has become something. So something must exist and that something can have no nothing / ness in it and thus must be the most infinitely perfect something that can possibly be. If there was any nothing / ness in this something it would mean nothing / ness exists but nothing / ness cannot exist as said. The nature of something s that it must do something , only nothing does nothing, but nothing cannot exist. So if something by its very nature must do something then something must be what we call creative , and lacking no infinite perfection at all this creativity must be infinite. Hence God who is something must exist and must be infinitely creative by His very nature. God has created infinite worlds in my opinion , based on His nature. Hope his helps.
God bless and Love you
John
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John_Russell_Jr
Guest
My dear friend,My dear friend,
I was not saying your arguing etc I was just letting yo know I can’t engage in it as so many go that way. The work is mostly my own ,so can’t quote anyone. Another post i just did that may help with the questions is below. I copie it for you. I’m off for a while soon but will be back if you want to talk.
My dear friend ,
Q. Why did God create our universe and us ?
It’s a good question. My own thoughs on this in brief are : using the concept of something and nothing , that God is something and not nothing as nothing cannot exist , if nothing exists then nothing is no longer nothing but having existence it has become something. So something must exist and that something can have no nothing / ness in it and thus must be the most infinitely perfect something that can possibly be. If there was any nothing / ness in this something it would mean nothing / ness exists but nothing / ness cannot exist as said. The nature of something s that it must do something , only nothing does nothing, but nothing cannot exist. So if something by its very nature must do something then something must be what we call creative , and lacking no infinite perfection at all this creativity must be infinite. Hence God who is something must exist and must be infinitely creative by His very nature. God has created infinite worlds in my opinion , based on His nature. Hope his helps.
God bless and Love you
John
Just to clarify one point being why does God have to exist which is not xplained suffice here. In the beginning if you will , there is a choice that either something or nothing exists. Now if nothing exists then nothing having existence has become something. So whether nothing or something exists , something must exist if you think about it. That something is God , and you can get a glimpse from this as to why He has always and will always exist. Indeed He is , and to say exists is not sufficient. Hoe this helps too.
God bless and Love you
John
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DPMartin
Guest
Melkite Swordhey guys just wondering. would you say God has authority over Hell? I know that Hell is the place where God is not present, but I also know that God has authority over everything.
thanks
The Promise:
Gen:22:15: And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16: And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
The fulfillment:
Rv:1:18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Therefore no one goes to hell unless the Lord Jesus says so.
- Status