God helps those who help themselves?

[dollarian]

is it in the scripture?
does the church approve such way of thinking?
thanks all

 

[corvidae]

It is not found in scripture,
It is a quote from Benjamin Franklin I believe.

And the Church in some ways approves of that way of thinking, for example, I believe it was Ignatius of Loyola who said,

“Work as though everything depends on you, Pray as though everything depends on God.”

God gave us gifts so that we may use them, we should not simply pray and then refuse to use the gifts that God has given to us. That is my interpretation at least.

A lone Raven

 

[vern_humphrey]

There is the story of the preacher in the flood. The water was up to the top of the church steps when a National Guard truck came by. “Get in, Preacher! The water’s rising.”

And the preacher said, “No. I trust in the Lord.”

The water rose and flooded the church. The preacher climbed up on the roof. Two boys came by in a John boat.

“Get in, Preacher! The water’s rising.”

And the preacher said, “No. I trust in the Lord.”

The water rose higher, and the preacher climbed up on the steeple. A helicopter came by and dropped a sling.

“Grab the sling, Preacher! The water’s rising.”

And the preacher said, “No. I trust in the Lord.”

The water rose even higher, and the preacher drowned. In heaver, he said, “Lord, I had such trust in you. Why did you let me drown.”

And the Lord said, “Dummy! I sent you a deuce-and-a-half, a john boat and a helicopter!!”

The meaning of this is that the Lord helps us by giving us the means to help ourselves. And He expects us to do that.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

is it in the scripture?
does the church approve such way of thinking?
thanks all

Not entirely. Contemplative orders, who essentially just pray, are considered to be higher calling than the active, who do works of charity.

However it is possible to get into a superstitious way of thinking that human action never has any consequences. Though we never know exactly what the result of any action will be, generally those who try hard at something will succeed whilst those who don’t will fail.

 

[Liberian]

Dollarian,

There is a joke that it is found in Hezekiah 13:13. (There is no book of Hezekiah in the Bible.)

The Christian message is, at its root, that God has helped those who are unable to help themselves. We cannot please God by any unaided efforts of our own; everything comes from His grace.

That said, it is a general observation in life that people who “get the breaks” tend to be those who make their own breaks. There is also more than a bit of truth in the joke that Vern Humphrey put on this thread. Our salvation depends, not only on God’s grace, but on our positive response to that grace.

• Liberian

 

[puzzleannie]

Not entirely. Contemplative orders, who essentially just pray, are considered to be higher calling than the active, who do works of charity.

.

Contemplative monastic orders, for the record, do not “just pray”. They also work at whatever is necessary for their own support and ordinary needs of daily life, and have, for example as in the Benedictine rule, a charism for hospitality and charity.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

is it in the scripture?
does the church approve such way of thinking?
thanks all

Hi,

I always thought it was but it isnt in Scripture. God wants us to completely 100% rely on Him for everything. That means 100% trust in God. We can only help ourselves by first trusting God will help us. He works all out for our good, even if ,at the time we are going through something horrible we have to trust it IS going to be for our better good.

 

[Milliardo]

The saying is implicitly found in the Bible, as it is against sloth or laziness. Its meaning is very clear: God will help those who do something, but He will not help those who do nothing and yet expect Him to do something for them. Yes, we must rely on God, but that certainly doesn’t mean that we won’t do anything and just let Him do all the work. Logic tells us that it doesn’t go that way.

 

[RPConover]

It’s an “enlightenment” era saying, the sort of thing transcendentalist Ralph Waldo Emerson preached… which was just wishy-washy new age garbage. They downplayed the importence of prayer, saying that the best “prayer” of all is to take action; as everything anyone wants is there for the taking. So in other words, if you don’t have something it’s probably because you’re either lazy or not intelligent enough.

 

[Church_Militant]

is it in the scripture?
does the church approve such way of thinking?
thanks all

Nope it’s actually NOT found in the Bible.

It is from one of Aesop’s Fables:

Hercules and the Waggoner

A Waggoner was once driving a heavy load along a very muddy
way. At last he came to a part of the road where the wheels sank
half-way into the mire, and the more the horses pulled, the deeper
sank the wheels. So the Waggoner threw down his whip, and knelt
down and prayed to Hercules the Strong. “O Hercules, help me in
this my hour of distress,” quoth he. But Hercules appeared to
him, and said:

“Tut, man, don’t sprawl there. Get up and put your shoulder
to the wheel.”

The gods help them that help themselves.

LINK
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Nope it’s actually NOT found in the Bible.

It is from one of Aesop’s Fables:LINK
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

1 Timothy 5,17-18

17 Presbyters who preside well deserve double honor, especially those who toil in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “you shall not muzzle an ox when it is threshing” and, “a worker deserves his pay.”

This is only one of many examples in the New Testament of people being exhorted to work for Christ and to reward those who work.

If we are not called to work, why were the Apostles needed? Why did Jesus send them out to preach?

 

[Church_Militant]

1 Timothy 5,17-18

This is only one of many examples in the New Testament of people being exhorted to work for Christ and to reward those who work.

If we are not called to work, why were the Apostles needed? Why did Jesus send them out to preach?

Vern, What are you talking about? The quote and idea that God helps those who help themselves is not found in Christian scripture and your quote doesn’t support that it does.
Not muzzling the ox is about insuring that both the Ox and the workers get their fair wages. A sin that cries out to God for redress.
Pax tecum,

 

[Verita]

This saying isn’t quite right. It implies that God will only help those people who first help themselves. That is not true. God reaches out to everyone. However we do have a choice of whether or not we will accept his help. That understanding is supported by countless stories and parables in the Bible.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Vern, What are you talking about? The quote and idea that God helps those who help themselves is not found in Christian scripture and your quote doesn’t support that it does.
Not muzzling the ox is about insuring that both the Ox and the workers get their fair wages. A sin that cries out to God for redress.
Pax tecum,

Read both verses as they were written:

17 Presbyters who preside well deserve double honor, especially those who toil in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “you shall not muzzle an ox when it is threshing” and, “a worker deserves his pay.”

The passage is about those who work for the Church, not about oxen or general laborers. The Church needs workers to do Christ’s business.

If it were not so, why would we have priests and bishops and other religious?

 

[deb1]

When I was a Protestant I can remember reading article after article about how awful this saying was.

What the writers of those articles did not understand was that the saying does not imply that we should not depend on God. Of course we do that. Even our desire to better ourselves come from God. But we also have to work in conjunction with God. We can’t sit on our behinds and simply expect everything in life to be rosy and great.

case in point. When I was a teenager I went to a bible study group led by a group of young mothers. Two of the women announced that they no longer locked their doors at night, even though their hubby’s were away in the field(military) and they had small children. They honestly believed that they would come to no harm because they trusted God.

Although I appreciate their faith, there are many good Christians who do suffer robbery and rape. Locking a door when God has been gracious enough to give you the funds to buy locks doesn’t seem to be untrusting God.

 

[vern_humphrey]

When I was a Protestant I can remember reading article after article about how awful this saying was.

What the writers of those articles did not understand was that the saying does not imply that we should not depend on God. Of course we do that. Even our desire to better ourselves come from God. But we also have to work in conjunction with God. We can’t sit on our behinds and simply expect everything in life to be rosy and great.

case in point. When I was a teenager I went to a bible study group led by a group of young mothers. Two of the women announced that they no longer locked their doors at night, even though their hubby’s were away in the field(military) and they had small children. They honestly believed that they would come to no harm because they trusted God.

Although I appreciate their faith, there are many good Christians who do suffer robbery and rape. Locking a door when God has been gracious enough to give you the funds to buy locks doesn’t seem to be untrusting God.

Genesis 3, 17-19

17 To the man he said: "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree of which I had forbidden you to eat, “Cursed be the ground because of you! In toil shall you eat its yield all the days of your life. 18 Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to you, as you eat of the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your face shall you get bread to eat, Until you return to the ground, from which you were taken; For you are dirt, and to dirt you shall return.”

Very clearly, God expects us to do for ourselves, to work and toil.

 

[holyishisname]

2 Thessalonians 3:10 (King James Version)

10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

   Clearly God wants us to use the abilities He blessed us with.  Or would you rather disrespect His greatness and spit on all the blessings he gave you by sitting there doing nothing and expect Him to wait and serve you????? That is NOT how it works. Slothfulness is a sin fro crying out loud.
   Benjamin Franklin, as well as the other Masons and founders of this country, were highly religious and did not believe that the revolutionary war could not be won without God's help. Why do you think that they founded this nation "under God",  Not above, not equal, that was purposely put in there...it was not accidentally put there. They knew there place, they believed in a higher power...look at the Constitution. there are constant mentions of a higher power than man in the first 10 sentences.
    So how people think that he of all people would state the quote "God helps those who help themsleves" as to mean that we should abandon God and solely rely on oursleves is just inane.  
    Too many people try and use God as a fallback, saying oh i guess it wasnt meant to be" without giving any real effort.  Stop being lazy and ignorant and only seeing the worst in those that try their hardest and put everything that God gave them, and they acknowledge and are grateful for, to make the best of it.