God if this city for Mass

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aragonjohn1 said:
From the vatican II document Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy

The Council also calls for a revised liturgical calendar to emphasize, first, the richness of Christ’s salvific work; second, the salvific importance and maternal solicitude of Mary; and third, the witness of the martyrs and saints. The Fathers also call strongly for the encouragement of both internal individual and external social penance during Lent.

In the area of sacred music, Gregorian Chant and the pipe organ are accorded pride of place, and instruction is given for the use of other musical compositions and instruments. Such instruments arealways to be“suitable for sacred use” so that they “accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful” (120). Texts for chants and hymns are to be drawn from Scripture and liturgical sources.

And on the culture

“Norms for adapting the Liturgy to the culture and traditions of peoples
37. Even in the liturgy, the Church has no wish to impose a rigid uniformity in matters which do not implicate the faith or the good of the whole community; rather does she respect and foster the genius and talents of the various races and peoples. Anything in these peoples’ way of life which is NOT indissolubly bound up with SUPERSTITION and ERROR she studies with sympathy and, if possible, preserves intact. Sometimes in fact she admits such things into the liturgy itself, so long as they harmonize with the original languages and traditions.
38. Provisions shall also be made, when revising the liturgical books, for legitimate variations and adaptations to different groups, regions, and peoples, especially in mission lands, provided that the substantial unity of the Roman rite is PRESERVED; and this should be borne in mind when drawing up the rites and devising rubrics.
Shalom
God bless
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Good post.
 
Moore11 said:
And, Boom goes the dynamite.
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I agree when a document says something is up to the local ordinary or competent authority, the dynamite goes boom. Because if either of those groups say certain music is alright, then certain music is alright.

Lost in this is three different items:
  1. Music has evolved within the Church. At first, all instruments were banned. Then the organ happened. Later on we see other instruments being allowed, including kettle drums.
http://garritan.com/RK/Ch1_files/timps.jpg

These things. Which if you make small enough, do you know what sound they could proximate?

BONGOS. Or conga drums. Even a conventional kettle drum I would know how to make all sorts of quality sounds from.
  1. This isn’t a “salvation issue”, there’s no mortal sins here. We have how many thousands of babies being outright murdered every day, and the debate in this thread is about a guitar or drums being played at Mass? And please don’t say that a “relaxed” or “casual” liturgy contributed to the genocide of the new generation of holy innocents*, because the blithe disregard for human life was apparently before these so-called “guitar Masses” started showing up more and more. Before Vatican II we already had two world wars (not just any wars, but WORLD wars), the Holocaust, the Great Depression, and the beginnings of the sexual revolution.
Speaking of which, what do you call a “guitar Mass”?

A MASS.

Just like what would you call a native doctor?

A DOCTOR.
  1. Many of the documents for music was written for European Catholicism, which is why they added a “cultural clause”. I would posit that North America, especially with the amount of immigration happening lately, so no longer euro-centric.
It is told that St. Kolbe realized after awhile that he couldn’t bring about the conversion of hearts in Japan if he brought “European Catholicism” there, so he adapted to the culture while retaining the Truth. It’s possible we’re at that stage now in the USA and Canada.

Overall, this seems like such a small deal. People are playing different instruments, alright. Do they play them well (hopefully yes)? Do they have a quality sound person to make sure things sound good (hopefully yes, and I would expect ANY musical things happening in a church to have someone handle sound). Do they lift up people’s hearts for Mass, which if the first two are there, any music will do this.

Unless people go to Mass with expectations and hardened hearts, then of course they’re not going to get as much out of Mass. Going to Mass and letting something like “I don’t like this music” is akin to saying “I don’t like the paint they used on the walls of this church” or “why do they have a statue of St. Francis when they should have a statue of St. Benedict?”**

*“The new generation of holy innocents” is a phrase I use to describe abortion in this day and age. I find it fitting.

I have no idea why anyone debate this one. St. Francis is of course the clear winner*.

***Mostly joking. But not really. And this goes to show you how bias works into things!
 
anandkpillai said:
Let us embrace others who worship our God in their own way. More so, when the church leaders have not judged those who are singing their praises to God in their own way.

Besides, I doubt such songs are being played outside the order of the mass. It should be played at the appropriate times, as in during the start or end. Maybe, too during the collection.

Hence, it does not disrupt mass, it just supports it.
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:confused:

So anything that is disruptive is not really disruptive if Church leaders are not objecting? How would the Church leaders know to object if the parishioners don’t make it known how they feel about what is going on?

Sure some people can be too picky and music tends to get people worked up. But there is beauty in the Liturgy that is part of the patrimony of the Church. To take an “anything goes as long as they are praising God in their own way” attitude is very dangerous.
 
anandkpillai said:
I wonder if any one recalls what Jesus said in the Gospel when his disciples complained to him about others healing in his name and such.

Mark 9:40 - “For he who is not against us is for us”

Let us embrace others who worship our God in their own way. More so, when the church leaders have not judged those who are singing their praises to God in their own way.

Besides, I doubt such songs are being played outside the order of the mass. It should be played at the appropriate times, as in during the start or end. Maybe, too during the collection.

Hence, it does not disrupt mass, it just supports it.
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That is just nonsensical. The Church has always and will always govern the liturgy. Anything goes is a dangerous attitude to have with regards to the sacrifice of the Mass and the Eucharist. Techno? Rap? Metal? The Magesterium is very clear that some forms of music are better than others for Mass. This is the type of problem we have when people think the Church is a democracy or something that can bend to the wishes of amateur liturgists.
 
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