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chinie19
Guest
In Baptism we receive the Holy Spirit forever. What if that person is going to hell? God in that person can live in hell?
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ahs
Guest
In Baptism we receive an indelible mark and are welcomed into covenant with God. Through Baptism we receive supernatural grace…LIFE in our soul. We can lose this grace through mortal sin.
Hell is an eternal existence without God. So, no, God is not in Hell.
Hell is an eternal existence without God. So, no, God is not in Hell.
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zz912
Guest
Who said we receive the Holy Spirit forever? If we choose to mortally sin, we are cutting off the life of God within us. That’s why it’s called “mortal” sin. We receive an indelible and permanent mark on our soul from the Holy Spirit at baptism, but that doesn’t mean the HS will reside with us if we choose to cast Him out by our sins.
That is also one of the reasons why receiving Communion while in a state of sin is so sagrilegious and sinful. We are bringing God Himself into an unclean body and soul.
That is also one of the reasons why receiving Communion while in a state of sin is so sagrilegious and sinful. We are bringing God Himself into an unclean body and soul.
meltzerboy
New member
What is the “indelible and permanent mark on our soul from the Holy Spirit at baptism” if it is not the Holy Spirit itself, which can depart from the soul through mortal sin? Do you mean grace or something else?Who said we receive the Holy Spirit forever? If we choose to mortally sin, we are cutting off the life of God within us. That’s why it’s called “mortal” sin. We receive an indelible and permanent mark on our soul from the Holy Spirit at baptism, but that doesn’t mean the HS will reside with us if we choose to cast Him out by our sins.
That is also one of the reasons why receiving Communion while in a state of sin is so sagrilegious and sinful. We are bringing God Himself into an unclean body and soul.
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flower_lady
Guest
We separate ourselves as was said from God,by commiting mortal sins. This is why it is so important to go to confession frequently so that we can be reunited with God if we have comited a mortal sin.What is the “indelible and permanent mark on our soul from the Holy Spirit at baptism” if it is not the Holy Spirit itself, which can depart from the soul through mortal sin? Do you mean grace or something else?
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1ke
Guest
What the Church teaches regarding separation from God in Hell:In Baptism we receive the Holy Spirit forever. What if that person is going to hell? God in that person can live in hell?
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM
Those in Hell are separated from all but existence. Remember, God holds all things in existence by an act of His will. In this way, God is present in Hell, because he holds everything in existence.
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
Those in Hell are separated from *everything else *that God is-- it is the deprivation of the beatific vision that torments the souls in Hell.
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zz912
Guest
No, God cannot be marked on our soul. This seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding. The Holy Spirit is God, fully, and is not a character or trait of God. Our souls could not contain God.What is the “indelible and permanent mark on our soul from the Holy Spirit at baptism” if it is not the Holy Spirit itself, which can depart from the soul through mortal sin? Do you mean grace or something else?
From the CCC:
1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation. Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.
It is a mark of belonging to Christ on your soul. This doesn’t mean that we can’t leave God. He never violates our free will to choose Him or to reject Him. I’d imagine for those who choose hell, this mark of baptism is particularly painful as it is an eternal reminder of who you really belong with/to, and whom you rejected.
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Nita
Guest
Compare it to the indelible/permanent physical mark of circumcision imprinted on a baby’s human body at the time he was initiated into the Old Covenant.What is the “indelible and permanent mark on our soul from the Holy Spirit at baptism” if it is not the Holy Spirit itself, which can depart from the soul through mortal sin? Do you mean grace or something else?
Catholics consider the Old Covenant initiation rite of Circumcision to be a physical prefigurement of what Is spiritually fulfilled in the New Covenant initiation rite of Baptism. In Baptism, the indelible mark is a permanent spiritual “mark” on the soul rather than a permanent physical one on the body.
With that in mind, read again zz912’s Post:
Originally Posted by zz912
It is a mark of belonging to Christ on your soul. This doesn’t mean that we can’t leave God. He never violates our free will to choose Him or to reject Him. I’d imagine for those who choose hell, this mark of baptism is particularly painful as* it is an eternal reminder of who you really belong with/to*, and whom you rejected.
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Telstar
Guest
As others have said, it’s a spiritual ‘mark’ that’s left on the soul that indicates we belong to Jesus. Think of it being like the mark left on cattle or sheep by a branding iron. It can never be washed away by anything. If a cow or sheep gets lost or separated from the herd, that mark always identifies who owns it. But, the mark can’t keep them from getting lost even after they’ve been branded. It’s the same way with the mark of Baptism.What is the “indelible and permanent mark on our soul from the Holy Spirit at baptism” if it is not the Holy Spirit itself, which can depart from the soul through mortal sin? Do you mean grace or something else?
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Michael_Francis
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